Talk:Dubstep

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Dubstep isnt house music[edit]

Why are there House musicians such as Skrillex on the Dubstep article? House is about as far away as you can get from being Dubstep. 86.185.172.140 (talk) 20:53, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Brostep[edit]

This section of the article is condescending, full of rage, and not subjective or impartial in any way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.241.10.67 (talk) 21:37, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

the threshold for inclusion on wiki is verifiability, not truth. every sentence in that section is referenced, and a number of editors worked to get it to where it is now, as you can see below this statement. Kaini (talk) 22:28, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Brostep has no citations that are accurate. None of the information posted relates to those citations. I deleted the citations for being misleading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Matsuiny2004 (talkcontribs) 01:37, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Good call. The entirety of the Brostep section is pretentious, POV nonsense. It would be no better to edit the Trance Music article to state that every trance song released after 1999 falls under the umbrella of Kiddie Trance. The entire section should be deleted until RELIABLE sources are found supporting the Brostep moniker.66.25.42.226 (talk) 07:57, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

whoever keeps reverting brostep please explain reasoning this is a misleading article and I would consider inlcuding it vandalism until better citations are usedMatsuiny2004 (talk) 21:41, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

i'd agree that it needs a few more references, but your assertion that the existing ones are insufficient is false. even people like rusko, widely acknowledged as one of the progenitors of the midrange-y brostep style, uses the term here. so does martin clark, in this pitchfork article, and a large amount of the article is based on his pitchfork dubstep articles. you mightn't like the term, but it is widely used and the references are there to back that up. i'm reverting and i'm going to add a few 'citation needed's which i'll deal with when i have a little more time. Kaini (talk) 05:37, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
also, a sort of similar thing to brostep happened to drum and bass in the late nineties. it was termed clownstep and it's mentioned in the drum and bass article. Kaini (talk) 05:46, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
the current RS cites are sufficient to support the paragraph in question. continually deleting content one disagrees with is not the accepted protocol for settling content disputes. -- Semitransgenic talk. 08:17, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I agree that it is backed up by the new sources put in place. I will not delete it anymore or will be a vandal, but could the section be a little elss hostile? and I have a hard time beleiving rusko is the progenitor. His music sounds nothing like skrillex or andy american dubstep producers. I have heard the simmilar bass to skirllex from much ealrier artists. Most american dubstep artists do not use the term brostep.Matsuiny2004 (talk) 13:00, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

there are no new sources - they're the exact same ones. i just moved them to the end of the relevant sentences to clarify what ref is supporting what. Kaini (talk) 13:13, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

well it is much easier to see the relevance of them now. I won't delete them anymore, but I would like to talk about the hostility of the section. Rusko does not even like the terms dubstep or brostep http://oregonmusicnews.com/2011/04/13/sould-out-music-festival-2011-rusko-brosteps-back-to-portland/Matsuiny2004 (talk) 13:14, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

he doesn't like the term, but he does acknowledge its existence. i'd agree that the term 'brostep' is sort of inherently negative in tone, but it's out there now, widely used, and therefore should be covered in the article. in other words; the tone of the section is only reflecting the tone of the references. every statement in the paragraph is supported by a reference now, and i even deleted one sort-of-dubious reference and its accompanying sentence. the reason that you perceive negativity in the para is because there's negativity in the sources - the fact that there's a bit of a kickback from early dubstep/UK producers about the americanized version of the genre is undeniable. Kaini (talk) 13:27, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Why doesn't heavy metal have rock purists attacking it on the heavy metal wikipedia page? same goes for rap rock or nu metalMatsuiny2004 (talk) 13:32, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

well, that would be something you would have to take up with the regular editors of those pages, although i'd add that mainstream criticism of both metal and rap is covered very extensively in the PMRC article. and personally i don't see anything in this article as an attack; it's merely documenting stuff from the references. anyway, there's nothing stopping you from improving the article and adding a bit of balance using other reliable sources. Kaini (talk) 13:50, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

ok fair enough, but the term brostep itself is derogatory. Heavy Metal and other terms like rap rock are not. It's like using a racist slur to desscribe a legitimate style of music like blues. I am not saying using the term brostep is racist it is just an example that the term itself is slur and highyl inaccurate of the fan base. Another problem I have with the label brostep is that the wikipedia article itself says dubstep often uses distorted bass. How can brostep be different from regular dubstep then? I think postdubstep would be a more accurate term for the non distorted dubstep or bassless dubstep. It makes much more sense than creating a derogatory term or calling it subgenere even though distorted basslines can be a regular part fo dubstep. The part of the section that bugs me the most is the diss rusko gives to people who like distorted dubstep. Skream does not even consider distorted dubstep, brostep or call skrillex brostep he calls skrillex dubstep http://thequietus.com/articles/07606-skream-interviewMatsuiny2004 (talk) 20:28, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

added excision and datsik. Their styles could be considered more metal sounding and gave their inspirationMatsuiny2004 (talk) 17:33, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

semtrangenic says that I can not call 12th planet the godfather of brostep even though he has the agressive metal sounding bass and is considered the godfather of US style dubstep which is associated with that style of bass. http://mixmag.net/words/features/united-bass-of-america here is what I left on his talk page: It says clearly in the article that 12th planet is the godfather of US style dubstep which we are calling brostep. Therefore he is the godfather of brostep. Bassnectar is called brostep and therefore can be considred a pioneer I read the first citation which in the brostep section which does mention brostep, but does not explicitly state or imply that skrillex is brostep so by your logic that should be deleted too 12th planet has that aggressive style with the distorted metal sounding bassMatsuiny2004 (talk) 07:59, 31 December 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Matsuiny2004 (talkcontribs)


i've reworked your edits to the section, matsuiny. i think that the section is probably a lot more balanced now. and please start signing your comments with four tildes (~~~~)! Kaini (talk) 19:39, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

One problem I have with the rework is that 12th planet is considered the godfather and datsik and excision were inspired by coki and vex'd. How can he call himself a sole progenitor?Matsuiny2004 (talk) 19:46, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

(copy/pasted from my talk page)

the mixmag article is an editorial piece - it reflects the opinions of the author. just because one author passingly refers to 12th planet as 'the godfather' doesn't make it so. also, and perhaps more importantly, rusko was making music in the style long before 12th planet was. what happened was that US producers drew inspiration from the style that caspa and rusko were using (perhaps most notably on their fabric mix). i wouldn't take the fact that one editorial article in mixmag refers to 12th planet as 'the godfather of the sound' in one sentence as a fact written in stone, it's just an opinion, albeit one we can reference. i think the section is much more neutral now, anyway, and reflects the fact that brostep isn't universally despised Kaini (talk) 20:01, 31 December 2011 (UTC)


(again, copy/pasted) 12th planet or any of these other brosteppers has ever claimed to mainly be inspired by rusko and caspa. Actually the article says 12planet was inspired by mary ann hobbes and on his wikipedia page it says he announced in 2006 he would do dubstep which was way before cokney thug was released. Datsik only mentions rusko as a minor inspiration in passing in one of his interviews and nver even mentions caspa. coki and vex'd were around way before rusko was. Vex'd released an album in 2005. http://www.last.fm/music/Vex'd. Bar 9 is another influence on datsik so agian this shows it was not mainly caspa or rusko. If it was not for vex'd excision would not have even considered doing dubstep http://www.chinashopmag.com/2010/05/excision-death-or-dub-step/Matsuiny2004 (talk) 20:13, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

look, not *all* of the music any of these people made are an influence - what is the primary influence is the focus on midrange rather than sub-bass. this is a blog post so it's not WP:RS but it explains it all pretty well: [1] Kaini (talk) 20:24, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

My point is rusko or caspa is really no where to be found except as brief mentions and direct interviews point out other influences and acts that were around before both of them. This article has 12thplanet himself saying diorectly he was inspired by mary anne hobbes who was around before rusko http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/uponsun/2011/10/12th_planet_talks_dubstep_mary.php Vex'd released an album in 2005 way before cockney thug and before rusko had ever realeased an album. http://www.last.fm/music/Vex'd Excisions is quoted as saying with vex'd he would not have made the style of dubstep he makes.http://www.chinashopmag.com/2010/05/excision-death-or-dub-step/ If you listen to vex'd he has a much more mid range sound wobble than rusko and before rusko.Matsuiny2004 (talk) 20:38, 31 December 2011 (UTC) −

mary anne hobbes is a radio dj, not a club dj or artist. so when he says that he means that he was inspired by the tunes she was playing (probably her 'dubstep warz' special, which is regarded as an seminal moment, kinda the start of when dubstep started to get big). in other words MAH is a radio presenter who was important in popularising the genre, not a musician. as regards rusko, i'm not sure why you have such a bee in your bonnet over him; the fact that brostep stems from UK dubstep is kinda obvious, and if it did, it had to stem from a particular artist or artists. a minor rewording should fix your problem. Kaini (talk) 20:43, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes it did come from the UK, but those UK influences were not rusko or caspa and if they were of an influence at all it is in passing. Rusko is not the UK dubstep that brostep came from according to my sources and definitely not the sole artist. Yes I would agree artists, but there are more than just rusko and who haveb een around before him. Can I include vex'd or benga these guys are mentioned as the UK dubsteppers that have had influence on these guy through direct interviews? Mainly what bugs me about rusko is him taking almost complete credit for a movment he was not mainly a part of just one small inspiration amongst many.Matsuiny2004 (talk) 20:51, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

i've already done so. i'd disagree with the inclusion of benga, because his style is a lot closer to the original style. i'd also add at this point that the article is really long as is. i think that the readers of wikipedia don't like super-long articles, so at this point we should really try to keep things concise. if the brostep section becomes as long as the article again, people aren't going to read it. lets keep things simple. Kaini (talk) 20:53, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
another thought; there's almost certainly enough material now for a separate brostep article - brostep is currently a redirect to this article. Kaini (talk) 20:56, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Ok much better thank youMatsuiny2004 (talk) 20:59, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

reminder, article talk pages exist to discuss article specifics such as sources, wording, citations etc. they are not forums for general POV based discussion.
this is a GA article we are editing, sources must conform to WP:RS, don't interpret RS sources using POV based editorial analysis, state what is said, not what you would like it to say.
@Matsuiny2004 make the effort to format references correctly instead of leaving this work for others, note also there is a commonly used indentation format for talk page comments, it would help if you could follow it. -- Semitransgenic talk. 21:09, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
re: RS i very much agree. the whole brostep thing is a WP:SYNTH minefield. also the fact that this is a subgenre very much still in flux makes it hard to edit the article in a way where what's written remains true and/or current. Kaini (talk) 21:15, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

@Kaini: can skream be included as an influence on brostep? He does have high frequency bass and is mentioned by 12th planet as his main influence http://grime-syndicate.com/post/7496135443/12th-planet-interviewMatsuiny2004 (talk) 21:24, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

@Semitransgenic: I reverted your changes to kaini's edits. I think you need to discuss your alteration first. Kaini's edits are backed up adn we both discussed these changes. Sources point out that rusko is not the sole progenitor. it si not just my opinion. I lookjed up interviews and used those to find the influencesMatsuiny2004 (talk) 21:30, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

reasons very clear, as stated WP:OR, WP:NPOV.-- Semitransgenic talk. 21:39, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
i personally think that the section head 'brostep' is the source of a lot of these edit conflicts. i've changed it accordingly. it's a bit clunky, but it's better than an edit war. i mean what we're essentially talking about is 'americanised dubstep with less emphasis on sub-bass' but that's not exactly a great title. that being said, you do need to pay more attention to NPOV and OR, matsuiny. Kaini (talk) 21:49, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

@Kaini: Can I add skream as an influence in the brostep section? His dubstep bass was a main influence on 12th planet. This was mentioned in an interview http://grime-syndicate.com/post/7496135443/12th-planet-interviewMatsuiny2004 (talk) 23:13, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

i'm not the gatekeeper for the article, and i don't own it. however, i think that fact would be better suited to the 12th Planet (musician) article. Kaini (talk) 01:51, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

It seems disingenuous to label Brostep as an American thing. Probably the biggest "Brostep" producer after skrillex is Israeli(Borgore). Even UK artists like Flux Pavillion, Dr. P, Nero, and Foreign Beggars make dubstep that is extremely similar to Skrillex. 99.20.228.21 (talk) 04:43, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

In looking over the current citations, most of them barely refer to the term brostep, and those which do (besides one) only mention it as an aside, noting that it is used as a derogatory term for the genre. Let's look at them individually: “Lurching and aggressive remains the prevailing style in the States, a sound sometimes derided as "brostep."” from Spin. “has picked up the (fairly pejorative) label "dubstep"” from Miami New Times. Vita.mn does actually use the word brostep many times, based on quotes from Skream & Blaze One. “this British Columbia-based producer is the most “brostep” of the lot” from mixmag. All others not mentioned do not include the word brostep. Maybe it's just me, but when most references to a term admit that it is a pejorative used by those who do not like the genre, that seems to be a good indicator to *not* feature it as the title of the subsection. I would have no objection to a paragraph about it, but to title it by a derogatory name is like changing Country music to "Redneck music". (Please pardon the example, it only serves as an analogous situation.) Db26 (talk) 22:32, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

It's hard to label and categorise music that's so recent, we'll probably think completely differently about this in a few years. As for the name being derogatory, I would say more that it WAS derogatory in the beginning, now it isn't so much any more (there's a website called "iBrostep", pages worth of stuff on soundcloud/mixcloud tagged as brostep, I've seen Modestep use the term to describe some of their tracks on Facebook...) basically there is enough evidence that fans and producers of the sound are calling it brostep (at least more than anything else to distinguish it from the rest of dubstep). This isn't at all rare, the name fidget house started out as a joke between Switch and Jesse Rose and around 2008-9 go look at the Potty Mouth Music message boards and you'd see loads of people talking like it was the new rock'n'roll. Interesting you mentioned "country music", which was commonly known as "hillbilly music" until the mid 20th century. - filelakeshoe 23:03, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
Its derogatory for a reason, not because it is a new term or anything. I've tried to identify the issue, to me it seems that brostep implies you're a bro, for many people a bro is this(http://alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/large/troll-i-feels-yah-brah-l.png) while in real life the people listening are more like this(http://alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/large/troll-melvin-l.png). Now, DONT get me wrong, I'm not implying that 'bros' are bad, just saying that brostep automatically labels you as something you arent. A term better to describe modern dubstep as would be filth or simply new dubstep. --193.150.233.20 (talk) 18:50, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
By that same token, "heavy metal" also labels listeners as something they aren't, and country music should also be renamed to account for the people who like it who live in cities. Using trollface graphics to illustrate a point is not very helpful and far from verifiable, it doesn't matter where the name came from or what it means to you, what matters is, people are using it. And do you really think "filth" wouldn't be at all derogatory to the average person who isn't familiar with urban music slang? - filelakeshoe 22:04, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
I think its clear by now that people are upset that its being called brostep, its definately a term that not every listener like and many artists does not apporve of. Why does it get called brostep if this is the case? Some can call it that if thats what they want, but what goes on wikipedia is not that term, at least not in the title. Look at this: https://www.google.com/trends/?q=dubstep,+brostep&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0 Its the biggest subgenre of dubstep, yet, its the least searched term of the two, if people truly were calling it brostep and new dubstep is more popular than oldschool dubstep(which has been proven). And also, its visible since about december in the search engine, looking here: https://www.google.com/trends/?q=brostep&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0 and then when the brostep section was created(https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dubstep&diff=459468104&oldid=459449048) you can see a correlation. Its because wikipedia put brostep in its article, in the title of that section that its become used by some. Those people are the ones who are completely new to all this and turn to wikipedia. --83.251.228.124 (talk) 23:51, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
I can appreciate that, so I supposed what I'd like to see instead is more sources that use the term as more than an aside. It's far from verifiable, but anecdotally, I have never heard someone in America use the term dubstep non-derogatorily, and whenever someone uses the word dubstep they have actually been referring to "brostep". I'm sure this is not the case in the UK, and I'm not saying we should switch to an Americentrist point of view either - it just doesn't seem correct to *title* the section with a term that only a minority refer to it as. (I don't have a source, but I don't think it is a stretch to say minority, simply by the relative populations of the UK and the US, the growing popularity of dubstep within the US, and the search results for the term "dubstep" on youtube.) A title like "American Dubstep" is tautologically true, and doesn't attempt to give a specific name to something which currently has vastly differing labels, depending on the origin of the source. Of course, there can be no argument against discussing the term brostep or even including it as a subsection, since its use is clearly verifiable. It all comes down the question of the origin of nomenclature, which is a fairly complex topic. Db26 (talk) 19:33, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Continued: as an aside, I am in complete agreement that "dubstep" is a total misnomer - there's nothing dub about it; "metalstep" or "wubstep" would be much more appropriate. And a fairly comical source that I came across from @deadmau5 (which should be as valid as Rusko's quote, no?): "brostep is what dubstep fans call dubstep now that its mainstream to trick themselves into thinking they're cooler than that." - Db26 (talk) 20:23, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
I think of what Caspa and Rusko did to dubstep as something like what Judas Priest did to heavy metal music (which they're credited for in the lede of the genre article), just that the name "heavy metal" doesn't contain the word "blues".. what they've basically done is taken the dub out of dubstep and replaced it with something else. - filelakeshoe 12:29, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

There should've been mentioned about other brostep artists such as Flux Pavilion, Doctor P, Eptic and others. Just saying. 188.27.75.141 (talk) 07:50, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree, calling music without irregular bass dubstep doesnt make sense at all. Both Dubstep and Brostep are derogatory and Brostep is being increasingly used to describe the type of music that someone like Skrillex would make as the Dubstep scene is catching up with Brostep in popularity with artists like Burial. Also, I see someone suggested metalstep, but that makes even less sense as it clearly contains no metal influence or riffs. Can you explain that to me? 92.7.84.95 (talk) 01:12, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
"Brostep" is completely derogetory term that is only used in the same way you would call a native american that acts like a white person an "apple" its completely innacurate and should be removed. the reason we dont have enough surces about "Brostep" not being a real genre is because dubstep artisits (like me) are not on the net enough. this term is the equivelent of calling Kid Rock a "wigger" on his own wiki entry209.191.223.70 (talk) 20:51, 10 February 2014 (UTC)TheGhostOfMars

'2009 to Present' section out of date[edit]

Quote from Article:

On May 1, 2011, Nero's third single "Guilt" from their album reached number 8 in the Official UK Singles Chart, their highest placing single to date.

On the 14th August, it became the group's first number one, and consequently the first dubstep track to be UK No.1. Obviously this is worth a mention, despite the track having "the lowest first-week sales...in 97 weeks". Refer here. Just something I noticed :) 86.156.89.117 (talk) 17:43, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 3 January 2012[edit]

Add in "External links" a link to http://dubstep24.com/artykuly-dubstep/co-to-jest-dubstep/ because a lot of informations has been translated from this website (polish -> english). Valof (talk) 15:46, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Not done:
please familiarise yourself with wikipedia's external links policy. links such as this are generally not eligible for inclusion. Kaini (talk) 16:03, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

File:MaryAnneHobbsOnDecks.jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

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This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 17:20, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

"Reason for the nomination: Promotion of pirated music as per the cd sleeve in the lower right corner of the picture. Disgusting.". hilarious. Kaini (talk) 17:50, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
Brilliant. SOPA trolling is here. - filelakeshoe 12:58, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

--

Not sure how to post my comment, but here goes: Promotion of pirated music? Where? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:D:6900:47:3046:DE54:1E15:985F (talk) 19:45, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 2 February 2012[edit]

ms:Dubstep

Heyya88 (talk) 01:53, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Already done Celestra (talk) 06:29, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

This page should Include AMDUKIAS cause it is one of the best one. NO ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.51.134.179 (talk) 20:51, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Blackleg[edit]

This Blackleg - Smoke test track is really not a good example of dubstep... Bad wobble ;) Although it says that this track is from 2009 it has been uploaded to youtube about a year ago, self promotion?

Delete this track but keep the one by shackleton. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Takemeintoyou (talkcontribs) 22:40, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

It might look like self-promotion but it isn't, it's there because it's not copyrighted. If you can find a more appropriate free track (released under GFDL or CC-BY-SA) then let us know! - filelakeshoe 16:43, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Mainstream Popularity: Late 2000s-early 2010s[edit]

This clearly cannot be true as dubstep was still unheard of at the close of the last decade. The late 2000s (and 2010) is when most of the developing occured. Dubstep sales only first skyrocketed in 2011. Before that it was unheard of. Dubstep was not the genre of the 2000s. It will probably define the 2010s in the end. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rothskin (talkcontribs) 01:08, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

read the article. wikipedia is not american-centric. dubstep was big in the UK before skrillex and his cohorts. Kaini (talk) 04:39, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
That, in turn, cannot be true as it was in 2009 that La Roux - In For The Kill (Skream Remix) went gold. - filelakeshoe 07:21, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

La Roux is synthpop and electropop, not dubstep. Dubstep was unheard of until 2011. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rothskin (talkcontribs) 23:31, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps in the US, but not the UK. I suggest you read the article. Kaini (talk) 00:52, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
(replicated from Rothskin's talk page)
Please stop changing the popularity field in the infobox. If you read the article, you'll see that as early as 2007, Burial was gaining massive acclaim and Benga & Coki's 'Night' was a huge hit in the UK. Kaini (talk) 17:09, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
La Roux is synthpop and electropop, not dubstep. - yes, I was talking about the Skream remix. Skream is a dubstep producer.
Dubstep was unheard of until 2011. - no it wasn't. Have you even read this article and the references in it? - filelakeshoe 18:46, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Amdukias is Missing in your dubstep story[edit]

As a fan, I should say that Amdukias is Notable and known all over the world by many artists and producer, so should be mentioned here check here http://www.search.yahoo.com/search?p=amdukiasdubstep thanks for teh help in correcting — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.148.98.243 (talk) 20:32, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

as an editor, i would say that your relentless spamming of this non-notable artist is getting extremely tiresome - see multiple article talk-page spamming, a couple of AfDs and WP:PRODs on the eponymous article page, and probably a couple of other things if i was to stop and think. please stop this. Kaini (talk) 20:48, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Wobble Bass[edit]

Can you consider editing the "Wobble Bass" section to include a sentence such as: "The wobble bass technique has been said to originate with France's Mr. Oizo, such as in his 1999 track 'Flat Beat', which features a prominent wobble bass"?

citations:

http://imfmag.com/2011/10/06/mr-oizo-france7/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLGu1GmbzYk

This is misleading, because although Mr.Oizo did set a prototype with that track, it wasn't for dubstep (more for fidget house and eventually the newer wave of electro house). The wobble in dubstep originates from darkening the basslines used in early speed garage, which were already using filter automation. The ref you've given doesn't mention dubstep; remember that "wobble bass" and dubstep aren't synonymous. - filelakeshoe 08:18, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Characteristics section[edit]

Hey everyone, the audio file and notation of a Dubstep groove is great, but there are some notational issues in the graphic that should be addressed. I would like to see electronic music taken seriously among seasoned musicians and performers, and I think the notation here on Wikipedia should adhere to the contemporary musical notation standards.

Bar 2 of the kick drum is using hard to read and nonstandard rhythmic patterns. That should be notated as a dotted eighth beamed with a sixteenth tied to an eighth beamed with another eighth. Once you start getting into sixteenth syncopation it is best to show each beat with beaming and ties. This sort of notational issue is throughout the picture.

Here are some less important issues in the notation:

Percussion instruments like claps are typically notated as quarter notes or shorter, they don't really have duration so placing it as a half note implies duration.

It would really help to have the meter shown at the beginning of the example, 4/4.

Dotted quarter rests: while they can be used, usually imply a compound meter like 6/8 or 12/8. In this example I think it would be best to use a quarter rest followed by a separate eighth rest in the first bar of the Kick.

Loudonstearns (talk) 17:47, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for feedback, I was thinking about remaking that actually, not sure if using standard drum notation would be more or less helpful though - filelakeshoe 09:13, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Origin[edit]

To be more specific it's Croydon, London is too concise. Ultra Epic Win (talk) 03:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

I think we should consider FWD and Rinse FM as well as Big Apple in the origins of Dubstep, and neither of those were in Croydon. - filelakeshoe 09:02, 12 July 2012 (UTC)


The article as it is over emphasizes South London as the origin without mentioning the other contemporaneous origins -Specifically Jamaica and surrounding islands. We need to reconcile the origins of /Dub_music with /Dubstep. If Dub_music mentions the work of /Mad_Professor at this same time (1995 – It’s A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad Professor 1997 – RAS Portraits, 2001 – Dubbing You Crazy) it's erroneous not to credit the Caribbean with Dubstep in the intro. We should acknowledge the combined origins in the intro paragraph (or at least that it is not a consensus.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.194.67.237 (talk) 21:34, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Big Apple and FWD were the 2 origins of Dubstep. Rinse at that time was a very small station that focused more on Grime. It became more prominent slightly later. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bigapplerecords (talkcontribs) 14:24, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Big Apple and FWD were the 2 origins of Dubstep. Rinse at that time was a very small station that focused more on Grime. It became more prominent slightly later. Bigapplerecords (talk) 14:43, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Useful feedback[edit]

On the article feedback tool I found this:

This article is written from a perspective that a reader has to be familiar with a host of (urban) music styles. I am a prof. classical musician and I wanted a precisely defined description of what dubstep is. Having dragged myself through the entire, miserably self-referential article, I am precisely none the wiser. Sentences such as "The earliest dubstep releases date back to 1998 and were darker, more experimental, instrumental dub remixes of 2-step garage tracks attempting to incorporate the funky elements of breakbeat, or the dark elements of drum and bass into 2-step, which featured as B-sides of single releases." assume a familiarity with other genres *and depends on these*, something that no encyclopaedic article must ever do.

I think this is really important - although you can be sure giving a "precisely defined description" of dubstep which is reliably sourced is impossible, some bits of this article could be clarified for the non-initiated - in that sentence for example what is actually meant by the "funky" elements of breakbeat or the "dark" elements of drum and bass? and the link to "dub music" on the word dub seems a bit misleading. - filelakeshoe 09:13, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

first thing is to lose that ridiculous Allmusic quote in the lead, it's not appropriate. Also, the article lacks a thorough overview of the UK urban/dance music that led to dubstep. We could easily add a historical overview running from Jamaican dub --> UK sound systems -> rave -> jungle/drum n bass -> 2 step -> broken beat -> dubstep (or something similar). There are plenty of sources on all of these topics, there was 20 years of underground in the UK before dubstep appeared, we need to add further context. Semitransgenic talk. 21:43, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
agreed on all counts (even though i think i put that allmusic quote in there in the early genesis of this article - i was hunting for something that kinda summed up the genre as succinctly as possible. of course, there's probably a much better WP:RS quote out there now since the genre's exploded). there's a whole bunch of stuff to be found where people like kode9 and martin clark talk about the 'hardcore continuum' with regards to your second point. Kaini (talk) 21:32, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Deadmau5[edit]

Isn't Deadmau5 dubstep? He isn't mentioned in the article.174.89.101.69 (talk) 05:16, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

he's recorded... one, maybe two tracks i'd personally consider dubstep. he's more electro-house. see Talk:List of dubstep musicians for a previous discussion on this. Kaini (talk) 14:43, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
The only dubstep song Deadmau5 has made that I am aware of is Raise Your Weapon. Seeing as the other 99.9% of his songs are different types of house, he isn't really a dubstep artist. Charles35 (talk) 03:31, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Deadmau5 is house. AmericanLeMans (talk) 04:26, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Changing the photo of mixing records for a picture of Big Apple Records.[edit]

I would like to change the picture of Mixing Records for a picture of Big Apple Records. Can someone help me please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bigapplerecords (talkcontribs) 02:14, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

big apple no longer exists. mixing records is in the same spot now. Kaini (talk) 05:00, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
(Mixing Records no longer exists either, sadly). It would be better to have a picture of the shop from when it was Big Apple. If you have a picture, you can upload it to Wikipedia or Wikimedia Commons by following the steps at Wikipedia:File Upload Wizard, so long as you own the rights to it, or it's been released under a compatible free license (see Wikipedia:File copyright tags. - filelakeshoe 11:17, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Mixing records shut down a few years ago and had nothing to do with the birth of dubstep, therefore it would be better to have a picture of the Big Apple, the shop where all the early producers used to meet. I have uploaded a picture to upload wizard but cant replace the picture that is already there. Any suggestions? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bigapplerecords (talkcontribs) 13:45, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

I can't find your upload - where did you upload it to? - filelakeshoe 14:18, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

On commons???? sorry, Im new to this. That picture of Mixing has been bugging me for years, Ive decided finally to do something about it. Thanks.Bigapplerecords (talk) 14:40, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done, thanks a lot! - filelakeshoe 15:12, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Nine Inch Nails' "The Great Destroyer" being the orgin of dubstep?[edit]

As a huge NIN fan I hate myself for saying this, but it's true, although not exactly dubstep the second half of the 2007 song The Great Destroyer is easily passable under the genre, and it uses the exact same techniques. It probably should be at least mentioned in the history section. 82.42.161.70 (talk) 17:39, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

have you even read the article? it covers plenty of music being made pre-2007 which could be classified as dubstep. at the very most, it's trent being aware of developing trends across the pond as he often is, and incorporating that into his music. and it's completely non-notable. Kaini (talk) 18:34, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
I wouldn't even say it's dubstep influenced. Industrial techno artists often experiment with rhythms and Trent is no exception, so finding a 140bpm halfstep rhythm in a NIN track is perfectly possible, and absolutely no reason to class it as dubstep, let alone to suggest that it could be the "origin" of dubstep. Even ignoring the fact that dubstep predates the track by years. - filelakeshoe 19:50, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
indeed. but cross-pollination has and does occur. for example Scorn (band) (which really needs updating, the project is still active). an ex-member of napalm death producing stuff sludgier, bassier and heavier than loefah's old DMZ stuff. not a hope of anyone dancing to this stuff, yet it is still undeniably bass music. i'm a huge fan. Kaini (talk) 20:23, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Clarification please[edit]

I don't understand "The earliest dubstep releases date back to 1998 and were darker, more experimental, instrumental dub remixes of 2-step garage tracks attempting to incorporate the funky elements of breakbeat, or the dark elements of drum and bass into 2-step, which featured as B-sides of single releases." What does "featured as" mean here? And what does it refer to -- 2--step, dark elements, or breakbeat? -- Thanks -- Jo3sampl (talk) 19:14, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Early dubstep tracks were usually B-sides on 2-step singles (so there would be a standard 2-step track on the A-side, and a darker remix with dnb/breaks influence on the B-side). At least, I'm pretty sure that's what it means. - filelakeshoe 13:40, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

W T F ? ? ? Zed Bias dubstepping the neighbourhood? xD[edit]

i'v ejust read Zed Bias was mentioned in being one of the "pioneers" in Dubstep. C'mon buddies, more tha 10 yrs ago there was 2 Step stepping out in the clubs (Oxide & Neutrino, DJ Luck & MC Neat, Craig David, The Artful Dodoger etc.). I remember very well, it was back then in 2000. No Dubstep or anything. I'm really interested in the source that certifies it, No buggin', really, just curious about it (BTW if my english skills sucks, tell me - i'm alway on improvement on myself) --Saviour1981 (talk) 23:59, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Here (I'll update the article link). Whether you remember dubstep in 2000 would depend on whether you were in South London or in Düsseldorf. Dubstep was a very local underground scene at that time. And the early releases which it was built on (labelled here as the EL-B/Horsepower/Zed Bias years) don't sound a lot like today's dubstep, it was basically spaced out, subby 2-step with the vocal missing. - filelakeshoe 09:01, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
Bear in mind that the article states that, although this music is retrospectively seen as being proto dubstep, the term "dubstep" didn't come into use until around 2002. FM talk to me | show contributions ]  16:42, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

The last part of the Brostep section[edit]

The last paragraph of the section dont make any sense at all, this bit:

"The heavy dubstep sound has also attracted the attention of heavy metal bands. Korn's 2011 album The Path of Totality features several collaborations with electronic music producers, including Skrillex and Excision. The term metalstep has been used for a fusion of dubstep and metal."

I dont see what this has to do with heavy metal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.7.89.123 (talk) 16:56, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

What's unclear about it? Korn are a metal band and did an album full of dubstep feats. - filelakeshoe 17:51, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

But Korn doesnt make Metal 92.7.87.157 (talk) 20:47, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Yeah they do, look them up EgyptKEW9 20:20, 13 December 2012 (UTC)EgyptKEW9EgyptKEW9 20:20, 13 December 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by EgyptKEW9 (talkcontribs)

Korn do not make metal, Wikipedia is the only encyclopedia that considers nu metal as a genre of metal even though it clearly isnt. 92.7.84.95 (talk) 00:59, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes they do & nu metal IS in fact a metal music genre.EgyptKEW9 13:45, 6 May 2013 (UTC)EgyptKEW9EgyptKEW9 13:45, 6 May 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by EgyptKEW9 (talkcontribs)

Korn does make metal but this page is being edited by people who dont understand genre they have stated that brostep is a genre when it isnt its just something people say about artists they dont like.209.191.223.70 (talk) 20:43, 10 February 2014 (UTC)TheGhostOfMars

Early use of the term "dubstep" in Knowledge mag, 2001[edit]

As an American visiting London for the first time in December of 2001 I knew I had to visit Fabric so I went two nights in a row, Friday and Saturday. The DnB night was wicked, with Peshay and A-Sides among others in the main room. Room 2 was even better, though. They were playing some kind of slow-motion 2-step jungle which immediately blew my mind wide open. I had no clue what that kind of minimal, rudeboy mutant 2-step music was called -- all I knew was that it was the shit. The first time I heard that slowed down 135-140bm wobble, it was obvious that something completely fresh was happening.

During my three days in London I also made a point of picking up an Issue of Knowledge magazine, almost as a novelty. There was certainly no magazine in the U.S. purely dedicated to Drum n Bass. And the issue I grabbed seems to be an important one!!

The December 2001 issue of Knowledge (Vol. 2 No. 27) had a feature on "Breakstep", highlighting the emerging dark garage scene -- Forward, Zed Bias, Oris Jay, Horespower, El-B, Hatcha, etc... Within the article, the terms "dubsteppa" and "dubstep" are used, both in reference to Horsepower:

"Big Apple's exciting DJ Hatcha acts as a lynchpin to the nights, joined by an impressive rotation including Phuturistix's Injekta taking it deep Bukem style, Jay 'Da' Flex delivering classic Ghost skank sets, and Horsepower Productions' dubsteppa Benny Ill, and MCs like Juiceman and Ms Dynamite hosting on the mic."

and

"... the Horsepower productions crew (Benny Ill, Nassis and Lev Jnr.) are pushing their sounds on the immaculate dubstep imprint Tempa, and Nico Sykes' 'electric soul' label, Turn U On."

Looking back, It's pretty funny that 'dubstep' was mentioned a mere sub-genre of breakstep at the time.

Shouts to Dave Q, Joe Nice and everyone at Dub War NYC for bringing the first grime and dubstep nights to NYC. The one-offs in 04 and 05, and that crazy crazy 2 year period of 06 and 07 when shit just went completely mental... so good. B'oh!

-Andrew S

Post-dubstep[edit]

I'm having a hard time understanding the use of the phrase post-dubstep. The article doesn't cite the origin of the term, and I can't find clear information on how the term emerged, who uses it, how widely it's used, or whether it truly describes a genre. I've found writing that uses the phrase, but not writing that discusses the phrase. (This is my own speculation, but it seems to me that the phrase is used to refer to a particular group of artists as opposed to an inclusive genre based on a set of musical characteristics.)

I'm not arguing whether post-dubstep should be discussed in the article--since the phrase is entering common usage, it should certainly be represented here. But I'm puzzled by the way Wikipedia treats it as a genre (for example, there's a whole set of post-dubstep categories and, without explanation, post-dubstep is tagged as a genre on James Blake's album as well as mentioned twice in that article). Meanwhile, the Dubstep article itself specifically states that it's not a "specific musical genre" and gives a tentative but incomplete list of musical characteristics.

I don't want to debate the meaning or validity of the term post-dubstep, but I do think this article should accurately document the status and usage of the term in the world (and only to an extent in agreement with the principle of "no original research") as well as use the term accordingly in other articles. dz7 (talk) 06:18, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

you have a point. i think the term as it exists is probably a reflection of other 'post-' genres and their relationship to their parent genres - see post-rock and post-punk, for example. but the section could definitely do with some nice clear references with regards to the genesis of the term. Kaini (talk) 23:53, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
I never liked the term "post-dubstep" since it isn't really what the name would imply (dubstep played with non-typical instruments), when I first heard it I expected James Blake was sticking LFOs over samples of double basses and cellos. But no matter, all that matters is that hipsters like it and sources use it, even the BBC. As for the origin of the term, I found this, which I know isn't reliable (although it was reposted by MTHFNKR themselves, so they obviously agree) but led me to this angry swedish article and some more stuff. I wouldn't recommend adding any nonsense about whether "post dubstep is or is not a real genre", but this might be enough to claim the term was coined by MTHRFNKR. - filelakeshoe 10:15, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
As much as I dislike the term, too, I agree. Perhaps the approach should be "this music has been described as post-dubstep by so-and-so" (which is mostly how the section is already written) but articles like James Blake don't need to be so heavy-handed in applying it as a primary genre--that is, until the term is better illuminated. This may very well emerge as a genre, but we don't have sources that fully define it. For now, I'll try to dig around MTHRFNKR this week and see if I can find more. dz7 (talk) 03:02, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

brostep section[edit]

I think the artists that the section includes as examples should be modified. I am surprised that Excision and Datsik are listed, because they don't seem to be the leading brostep artists. I don't dispute that they are brostep (they certainly are), but I would have thought Doctor P, Flux Pavilion, and Nero would be the main artists to be listed. Does anyone have any thoughts on adding them? I will look for sources that consider them brostep. Charles35 (talk) 03:44, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 14 February 2013[edit]

The 2000 hit "Freestyler" by Finnish artists Bomfunk MCs shares a lot with the style that was to evolve into Dubstep. 124.171.73.165 (talk) 08:03, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

X mark.svg Not done so do a whole load of other dance chart hits, nothing notable about this one inparticular. filelakeshoe (talk) 10:19, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

More emphasis on Jamaican origins?[edit]

Hi, I'm new to this, so don't be harsh

I have noticed, that although the article does state that Reggae is one of the origins, Jamaica (home of reggae/dub)is not listed on the countries list. Although many will disagree, Reggae WAS actually the genre where dubstep came from. Let me explain -

Artists such as Lee "Scratch" Perry and Scientist made dub remixes of Reggae tracks. Later on, originals were made, incorporating sub bass and other elements of dubstep, such as this track. The south London part was when second generation Jamaicans from South London made the same stuff.

So the first dubstep tracks were made in jamaca

Sorry for being brief, inaccurate and un-clear. I'm very tired at the moment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elliott Stanley Music (talkcontribs) 16:11, 16 February 2013 (UTC)


Um, no. Though Reggae is an influence the link is not as direct as you suggest. I think you may be confusing the origins of the "Dub" in Dubstep; this comes from the early Dubstep tracks being B-side remixes on UK Garage dubplates and not from any direct connection with Dub Reggae. The example you cite is merely a Dubblestandart reworking of a Lee Perry tune and is not really significant in terms of the history or development of Dubstep, it's more like a coincidence.

Hope that's of some help,

Bless Up!

30 hertz (talk) 12:20, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Agreed with 30 hertz. Dubstep's immediate parents are UK garage and drum and bass. Full stop. FinnHK (talk) 01:24, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

replacing the blackleg clip?[edit]

I saw the above discussion about the blackleg clip. The consensus seems to be that we are using it because it is un-copyrighted. If this is the case, and if we'd like something more up to date or more illustrative, I would be glad to help out. I thought about offering one of my own songs, but they say you shouldn't try to create an article about yourself, which is something I agree with. I can also see that it could be construed as a conflict of interest.

However, if consensus supports this, I can create a clip, not even a full song, that we could use here. It seems that we need a good example of a "wobbly" bassline, with perhaps a "sparse drum pattern"? I can create something for whatever we are looking for here, render an mp3, and of course send it to someone so they can give it a listen to make sure it's appropriate before uploading it to the article. Thoughts? Omarbecoming (talk) 04:55, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

agree we should update examples, but would personally rather see 30 second clips (fair use) of notable (influential) dubstep tracks by established artists rather than generic examples. It paints a better picture if we use material that has actually had an impact. Semitransgenic talk. 15:36, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
Up to you guys. Omarbecoming (talk) 16:12, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia policies put it in no uncertain terms that "fair use" should only be used as last resort. See my original points at Talk:Dubstep/Archive4#Copyrighted vs free content samples. If a better freely-licensed sample can be found/produced, go for it, but don't replace it with non-freely licensed content. -- intgr [talk] 23:29, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
I disagree, there is no definitive “last resort” rule on this, it’s a matter to be dealt on an article by article basis, and depends on context. As long as a valid non-free-use rationale is provided and the legal provisions relating to fair use are not contravened, I see no issue here. If a piece of audio is historically significant, in terms of the origination, or evolution, of a style of music, it’s in the interests of the project to provide a relevant clip. Semitransgenic talk. 02:52, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
It's a clip "demonstrating an example of rhythmic tension generated between the drum rhythm and bassline", there is no requirement that it be "historically significant". There are some valid uses of fair use clips, I agree, but please explain how a non-free clip is a requirement in this case?
WP:FAIRUSE#Policy states as its first criterion: "No free equivalent. Non-free content is used only where no free equivalent is available, or could be created, that would serve the same encyclopedic purpose. [...]" -- intgr [talk] 09:07, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
I think a key issue if we were to do this is what should we even call it? A "dubstep clip"? An "example of different kinds of 'wompy' basslines"? Omarbecoming (talk) 03:10, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
@intgr I think you are missing the point, if we are offering audio examples of specific stylistic features that are discussed in the article, generic free files would probably suffice. My point it that when it comes to "contextual significance" we see that "non-free content is used...if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding." My view is that offering this 'Blackleg' work as a sole example of dubstep is "detrimental to [the] understanding" of the topic. In the case of discussing a specific commercial release, there is no free equivalent. Do we do a mock up of that release and post it instead? No, not when fair use can be legitimately employed in the posting of a 30 sec clip. On the other hand if we were discussing the use of, for instance, a particular bass modulation effect in a certain track, a free equivalent could easily be used to demonstrate what is being discussed. Semitransgenic talk. 18:36, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
I see it this way: we don't need a fair use clip to demonstrate a bass drop. What we should have is an unnamed example track which demonstrates a simple bass drop, which anyone can make, not namedropping any barely known producer as we do now. However this article WOULD benefit from some fair use clips to show what the quintessential tracks at different points in the genre's development sounded like - especially one from the original Horsepower/El-B/Hatcha tracks which were around in the early days. I think this article had a Skream - Midnight Request Line sample on it at some point? We should perhaps return that too - that was the dubstep track everyone knew around 2006-7. filelakeshoe (talk) 18:44, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
@filelakeshoe, I agree, this music has some 10-12 years of development behind it at this point, and there were key tracks along the way, I'm not saying that popularity is the preferred selection criteria, but in terms of determining the notability of the examples that are provided, it makes the most sense. Semitransgenic talk. 19:00, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Let me know if I should put something together. If you do want me to, let me know exactly what elements you want to be included in the clip. Omarbecoming (talk) 19:37, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Erm? So it seems that we agree, Semitransgenic. To demonstrate particular elements of the genre (such as what this Blackleg example is currently there for), we should prefer freely licensed samples. I never meant to suggest that we should keep it as "a sole example of dubstep". Only that we shouldn't replace this clip with a non-free one, as you seemed to suggest in your initial reply. PS: I have removed references to the artist "Blackleg" from the article and only left the clip. -- intgr [talk] 19:48, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

BTW, if you're still considering adding other songs, might I suggest Digital Mystikz's Haunted? Although I haven't seen this one talked about very much in encyclopedic/scholarly contexts (such as wikipedia), I think it was a tremendously important tune for the development of the genre and is DMZ's anthem. As this article well establishes, DMZ was/is a very important figure in dubstep. IMO, Haunted is right up there with Benga/Coki's Night and Midnight Request Line. Omarbecoming (talk) 03:21, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

re:reverberating basslines?[edit]

@bumfodder. I'm not so sure this is the correct, I understand what you are trying to say, but "reverberating" implies the use of reverb/echo/delay, or indeed it could describe the sound of the bass when heard in a particular environment (in terms of the acoustics of a particular space). The bass is often mixed dry, and placed dead centre, with modulation being the most widely used effect, spatial treatments are not generally applied to sub-basses. Semitransgenic talk. 12:59, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

I understood reverberating in this context as "to repeatedly return" or "to rebound or recoil" (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/reverberate#English) which I think makes sense as the bass moves around in dubstep songs, but I can see the confusion it could create which I didnt think of. At the moment the first paragraph didnt say anything about the kind of 'moving bass' in dubstep songs, so I thought I would add reverberating as it is in a lot of sources and describes it in a manner which I thought was fine. BumFodder (talk) 01:34, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
Reverb has a slightly different meaning, though. And that would be the context implied here by default. This is ranked as a Good Article, and I feel adding phrases that muddy the waters doesn't help it - in my own opinion it's pretty much borderline GA as it stands. Kaini (talk) 02:26, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
Reverb is a spatial effect that changes what you might call the "texture" of the sound. The "wobble" effect is usually created through an LFO modulating a cutoff filter. In other words, a low-pass filter (usually LP, but you could also use high-pass or band-pass), which only lets through frequencies below a certain cutoff point (say, 100 Hz), is oscillated at a low frequency (say 3 Hz). This might be a little confusing because low "frequency" does not refer to the frequency of the sound (ie the pitch). It refers to the frequency of the oscillation. However, in dubstep, the frequency of the LFO is typically synced to the tempo of the song (~140 bpm). So one doesn't usually describe it as "3 Hz", they'd describe it as "1/4" or "1/8", etc, meaning that there is 4 or 8 wobbles, respectively, per measure.
Reverb is most often utilized in pads, but also leads. You'll also hear a lot of people talk about using reverb with their drums, especially snares. Omarbecoming (talk) 18:57, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Origin of name.[edit]

This huge article does not provide useful information about what dubstep is, and why it was called dubstep. The word "dub" is not a nonsense syllable; it has meanings. From dictionary.com:

dub verb (used with object)

1. to furnish (a film or tape) with a new sound track, as one recorded in the language of the country of import. 2. to add (music, speech, etc.) to a film or tape recording (often followed by in ). 3. to copy (a tape or disc recording). verb (used without object) 4. to copy program material from one tape recording onto another. noun 5. the new sounds added to a film or tape. 6. a style of popular music based on reggae and produced by remixing previously recorded music to which audio samples and sound effects are added.

Verb phrases 7. dub out, to omit or erase (unwanted sound) on a tape or sound track: to dub out background noise.

Origin: 1925–30; short for double

Definition 6. seems to convey more information than the whole article does. I don't want to edit this, but maybe someone could add the following sentence to the beginning of the article. "Dubstep is a style of popular music based on reggae and produced by remixing previously recorded music to which audio samples and sound effects are added." The word "dub" often means to add an "overdub" to an existing recording, i.e. in normal English, for many decades, so if 2-step music has overdubs added, the name "dubstep" starts to make sense as something more than just nonsense syllables. Actually, the name is very clever, given that "dub" comed from "double", which means "2", so 2-step --> double-step --> dubstep.77Mike77 (talk) 18:20, 18 March 2013 (UTC)


Clever perhaps but also wrong. As I stated somewhere above the Dub in Dubstep derives from Dubplate not Dub Reggae. I agree though that the article is uninformative on this point, if I can find a verifiable source I may edit myself.

30 hertz (talk) 14:25, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. That's interesting. We used to call them "acetates". So if it doesn't come from 2-step, the dictionary is wrong on that point. Still, the idea of tacking "-step" onto the word "dub", seems to be modelled after the name "2-step", even if the music doesn't derive from it.77Mike77 (talk) 15:07, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Brostep section lends undue weight to UK-centric POV[edit]

Let's be honest - brostep is hardly an American phenomenon. The only reason we're saying that in this article is because dubstep was started by the British and they want to lump all brostep artists into one category - those consumer Americans. Brostep had been going on for years in the UK before Skrillex and friends joined. And DatsiK and Excision are hardly worthy examples of brostep. The only reason they're mentioned here is because they are good examples of brostep artists from North America. The original brosteppers are Rusko, Flux Pavilion, Doctor P, Nero. They're all Brits. They started brostep, and they are bigger than both DatsiK and Excision. Skrillex may be the poster boy, but brostep is not purely an American phenomenon.

I don't know the template for a UK-centric article but if someone does, could they add it please? Thanks. MidnightRequestLine ([[User

talk:MidnightRequestLine|talk]]) 02:33, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

the subheading you WP:BOLD edited was fine. The "developments" in America relate to the emergence of a production style that built on an earlier UK sound; which in turn led to the coining of the term "Brostep". No one was calling harder edged dubstep "brostep" until Skrillex et al. were hyped in America. That this particular style had a nascent form in the UK is not the focus here, certain American producers took the ball and ran with it, hence the use of the expression "American developments," in the subheading. I don't see how this is contentious. If you have sufficient RS sources to begin a new section that deals with this UK/US aspect of "brostep" by all means do so. Semitransgenic talk. 09:59, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
I'm just saying this feels like a collective UK effort to blame it on those consumeristic Americans. I will look for a reliable source. But in reality UK artists are just as bro as American artists and are just as if not more influential. The "development" of brostep occurred in the UK just as much as it did in America. But I will concede that America does not have as many non-brostep artists, if that makes any difference. I'll search for some reliable sources. MidnightRequestLine (talk) 13:13, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
I think maybe you are reading too much into the editorial style, there is no agenda, it covers events as they were reported in the popular press, and draws upon the usable sources that were available to us at the time of editing, there's no "blame" for anything, some people like "brostep," others don't, it divides opinion, I don't think the section says anything more than this. Semitransgenic talk. 13:21, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
Well, I think the "collective UK effort" is certainly present in the press itself. I think the entire dubstep culture has this problem. Look at any dubstep video on youtube (although I'm sure you're already aware) - it's out of control. Can you make any argument here that the sources have a UK-centric POV? MidnightRequestLine (talk) 13:31, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
UK centric POV? dubstep is a British phenomenon, latterly embraced in the US, that the majority of literature on the subject stems from UK sources is hardly surprising. There's no conspiracy here. Semitransgenic talk. 16:10, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
I said nothing about a conspiracy. You said that the editors do not have an "agenda" because they are covering the popular press. I'm just saying that the UK-centric POV is being traded off from the sources to the editors. A POV issue does not require a conspiracy. And a source does not need to be from the UK to have a UK-centric POV. Many Americans are currently on the anti-brostep bandwagon and they talk about Datsik and Excision in this context as if they are more famous and more influential than Rusko, Flux Pavilion, Nero, and Doctor P. Nobody mentions those four, who are probably the most influential brosteppers and the most famous (aside from Skrillex). MidnightRequestLine (talk) 17:02, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
harping on about alleged POV violations without offering alternative sources is counterproductive, it's best to corroborate such claims with usable sources. Semitransgenic talk. 16:59, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
I don't know why you perceive this as confrontational or conspiratorial. POV issues are an everyday part of wikipedia and WP:NPOV is one of the three central policies. I am only proposing that we place a POV template on the section so that other editors will be notified to look for sources as well. MidnightRequestLine (talk) 17:18, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
And by the way I have been looking for sources. The only ones I can't even find about brostep are "Rusko's thoughts on brostep" and threads from dubstepforum.com. The people on that forum are indeed saying that brostep originated in England and that the majority of it still comes in England and that people blaming America are wrong. But I am aware that dubstepforum.com is not a reliable source and I am not trying to say that it is. I am just pointing out that people seem to agree with my (neutral) POV. MidnightRequestLine (talk) 17:20, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
I don't see the same POV issues, we reflect what the available secondary sources offer, currently, the text is entirely consistent with said sources. As I said above, the term "brostep" was originally associated with music of an American origin, and was, from the outset, attributable to a group of American producers that were building on the harder edged dubstep style that had developed in the UK prior to 2011. What the article currently fails to address is the matter of how the UK scene responded to this initial wave of US "brostep" in 2012/13; the subsection only addresses events up to Autumn 2011. Perhaps if you focused on advancing the current content using more recent material it would solve the problem you see here. Semitransgenic talk. 07:40, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

(Don't know how to do an outdent but this will have to do): I would say that now, more than ever, people are hating on brostep. People are even hating on previously-respected names like Benga and Skream. This article might not have that I would agree but I think the more important thing to note is that back in 2008-2010, what we now call "brostep" was embraced by fans of "real dubstep". And people called Rusko, Nero, Flux, Doctor P brostep from the beginning of the use of the term. I'd say that their style of music is the classic identifiable "brostep" style. I think the mistake this article is making is failing to mention those four names specifically. MidnightRequestLine (talk) 13:27, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

again, we need valid sources if we wish to tie the points you are making together, without them, this view cannot be advanced. Semitransgenic talk. 13:52, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
We don't need sources for a WP:NPOV template. I am adding one. MidnightRequestLine (talk) 15:02, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
you have not yet established, using reliable sources, that there is a contravention of WP:NPOV, and unless you do so, the template will be invalid. Semitransgenic talk. 16:02, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Are you against it because it would threaten this article's good article status? MidnightRequestLine (talk) 17:10, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
I'm against deferring to personal opinions in lieu of actual usable sources. Generally the way things work here is that you have to support arguments with evidence. You have not demonstrated that an NPOV violation exists. Semitransgenic talk. 17:32, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Same old story with these "good" articles... What do you think of this article? It explicitly mentions both Rusko and Flux Pavilion as brostep artists. MidnightRequestLine (talk) 17:46, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
And this one. The article is titled "FLUX PAVILION: “WHAT I DO IS NOT DUBSTEP” and the first line is "He may be at the forefront of the ‘brostep’ revolution, but Flux Pavilion isn’t fussed about how his music is categorised." I'm asking you whether or not these are reliable sources because they seem to be to me but I'd rather clear it with you before taking the time to add them to the article. MidnightRequestLine (talk) 17:48, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
This interview also calls Flux brostep. MidnightRequestLine (talk) 17:50, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
all of the above just to arrive at that? in future you could save yourself a lot of time by presenting sources and suggesting what you want to write, rather than talking around the issue. For the purposes of this article, and the matter at hand, i find no major issue with your sources, not the best in terms of detail, but they will do. Semitransgenic talk. 18:10, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Rusko quote[edit]

The quote in that source is only part of the actual quote. The chopped up quote has been circulating the internet for a while now. This article has the chopped up quote, but it also has the original interview in the form of a video from the bottom of the page. Watch the video - you'll see that this is the full quote:

They're like 'Rusko I want you to melt my face off tonight! Play the hardest, hardest you got!' Like, it's not about playing the hardest, hardest tracks for an hour and a half. It's like someone screaming in your face for an hour. You don't want that.

So as you can see, the reason he says the word "hour" is because he's talking about his shows. The quote in the article is not the full quote and does not mention the part about his shows and people asking him to play the hardest tracks he's got. So that's why I removed the "hour" from the quote. It's not the full quote and it doesn't make sense with "hour" in there because there's no mention of why he's saying anything about time. I'm removing it again. MidnightRequestLine (talk) 17:39, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Sub-genres & Fusion Genres[edit]

I think some generally agreed-on sub-genres and fusion genres have been left out. Chillstep or liquid dubstep seems to be a common term used for relaxing, chilled-out dubstep, so I think it should be included as a subgenre. Also, I don't believe trap is related to dubstep much at all (the article on trap says it came from southern hip hop), so I don't know why it is listed as a derived form. I think 'trapstep' should be listed as a fusion genre, along with others that are generally agreed on, such as drumstep (drum and bass/dubstep fusion) and raggastep/reggaestep (reggae-influenced dubstep). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.108.191.34 (talk) 06:33, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Redundant BBC program?[edit]

It may be overkill, but I came across a BBC Radio 1 Chronicles Program called "A History of Dubstep" and thought it may add to the credibility. I found the program on Youtube, it may be available elsewhere. Senobyte (talk) 07:59, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 February 2014[edit]

please remove the use of the term brostep or give an explaination of the word...The term "Brostep" is a derogatory term for dubstep with a commercial sound and is used here for convenience not for accuracy... the use of the term "Brostep" is coloquial in the way the term Coconut refers to African americans who act white... It implies that commercial sounding dubstep is not actually dubstep...younger electronic music fan have started to use the term without realizing the meaning of it and this may have been the cause of the confusion...in short the term "brostep is used to trivialize the work of skrillex (mainly) and other artists and is not an actual genre or sub genre... 209.191.223.70 (talk) 20:37, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Not done: WP:OR and everything about Brostep appears to be well sourced. EvergreenFir (talk) 05:14, 11 February 2014 (UTC)