Talk:Dutta

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Unreferenced![edit]

The whole article is unreferenced. See Wikipedia:Verifiability. Please add reliable sources while adding information in this article. --Tito Dutta 05:31, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Article requires referenced information[edit]

The content of this article is totally unreferenced. I don't understand, why it should not be replaced by sourced information, as far as Bengali Kayasthas are concerned. Ekdalian (talk) 09:54, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Repetition of Information related to Bengalis[edit]

Hi Joshua Jonathan, I believe the information on the Bengalis here is just is a repetition of what we already have in the article on Bengali Kayastha. Therefore, this is totally redundant, and a link will serve the purpose. Rather, incorporating a statement from a relaible source, supporting the fact that Duttas are Bengali Kayasthas, would make sense (which is missing here). Since we were the editors who were involved in re-writing this part, I would like to have your opinion. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 09:27, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

I don't know anymore... Why bother? People search for a specific topic, read it, and that's it. Those who search for Dutta are happy; same for Bengali Kayastha. But that's my first thought on it; I don't really have an opinion on it. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 13:21, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
Apparently there was no concencus yet, and it read (again) as upgrading a specific group by emphasizing the brahmana-element in it. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 20:02, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
That is precisely the reason I asked for your opinion. We have a separate article on Bengali Kayastha. Is it logical or as per our practice to have the same content in another article on just another surname belonging to that community? Long-term consensus on Wikipedia is to have the relevant link. This is not an article on the community, and please note that not all Duttas are Kayasthas. Therefore, isn't it irrelevant to discuss about the community in details, where we already have a separate article on Bengali Kayastha.
And moreover, in any case, we require a reliably sourced statement to show that Bengali Duttas are mostly Kayasthas. Please share your opinion. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 03:49, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Also, please note that the statements (by Tej Ram Sharma) incorporated in order to cite a reliable source supporting that Bengali Duttas are Kayasthas, do not amount to upgradation of Kayasthas (Duttas in this case) to Brahmins. It clearly states that "some scholars have suggested that there is a considerable brahmana element in the present day Kayastha community of Bengal", and this fact is not in dispute. All other opinions, as we have, suggest that only. Therefore, there's no question of upgradation, as you have said. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 05:54, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
"Some scholars have suggested" - to me it looks like kind of cherry-picking. I'll give it a try too. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 07:48, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, Joshua Jonathan. The key statement, mentioning Bengali Duttas as Kayasthas, need to be incorporated. Let me try as well. Let us come up with the best possible version together! Warm Regards. Ekdalian (talk) 08:25, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
  • I agree with Josuha. That is cherrypiching and vague. This user is pushing PoV everywhere with some Sharma source. --TitoDutta 08:35, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Hello Joshua Jonathan, I have tried my best. Thanks to your version, I have done mostly minor modifications including adding some links, aligning with source, and rearranging the references as per convention. I have incorporated a shortened version of the quote by Tej Ram Sharma, which is used just in order to establish that Duttas are Kayasthas. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 09:26, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
I don't get it. You want a shorter text, but you included an extended quote, without context. What's the use of this quote? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 11:34, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
Joshua Jonathan, rather I don't have any clue about your objective. Reverting valid and obvious edits is least expected from you! Please let me know, what is the basis of the statement - "Bengali Duttas/Dattas belong to the Kayastha caste." Where's the reference? Why do you assume that Bengali Duttas are Kayasthas? Let's start from here. Ekdalian (talk) 12:36, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Also, Bengali Duttas may belong to other castes as well, like one i.e. Baidya is mentioned here. Will you elaborate on each and every caste that Duttas may belong to, in the same way as you are describing the formation of the Bengali Kayastha inspite of having separate articles on these castes? Please explain. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 12:51, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── How about reversing the question? Why do you think Duttas are Kayasthas? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 18:35, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

I have earlier mentioned categorically that the quote (by Tej Ram Sharma) was provided in order to show that Dutta is now mostly used as a surname by Kayasthas. I still don't understand your problem with the quote. I believe, no editor here should think that his way of representing things is perfect. That is why we talk about consensus among editors. You are yet to answer my second question, why do you at all think that the discussion on Bengali Kayastha is necessary here, in spite of having a separate article; why can't a simple link serve the purpose. The article should look uniform as well. Why don't you discuss about the Baidya caste or the Mohyal community or the Assamese Kalita (caste)? Does it make sense to discuss about one particular community and mention others as links (which is usual), when we have dedicated articles on the same? Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 19:41, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
Joshua Jonathan, awaiting your response.... Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 16:40, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
Ekdalian, why don't you discuss the birthplace of the Buddha, or the origins of Hinduism? You say you want to shorten the info on the Kayastha-caste, but what you is re-insert quotes and info that suggest a high status for some specific groups: "some scholars have suggested that there is a considerable brahmana element in the present day Kayastha community of Bengal". The info is shortened, the Kayastha-caste info is referenced, so, that's it. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 18:22, 23 June 2014 (UTC)