Talk:East Slavic languages

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Languages (Rated C-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Languages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of standardized, informative and easy-to-use resources about languages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Belarus (Rated Start-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Belarus, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Belarus on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.
 
WikiProject Eastern Europe (Rated Start-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is part of WikiProject Eastern Europe, a WikiProject related to the nations of Eastern Europe.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Russia / Language & literature / Demographics & ethnography (Rated Start-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia.
To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the language and literature of Russia task force.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the demographics and ethnography of Russia task force.
 
WikiProject Ukraine (Rated Start-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ukraine, a WikiProject which aims to improve coverage of Ukraine on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

Old talk[edit]

Enough revanchism, gentlemen. Try not to let your ethnic prejudices show, pro or anti Ukraine. СТЫДНО!!!!

Documentation! If you wish to remove facts, please show that they are not facts! Factually, Muscovy was renamed "Rossiya" in 1713; this caused communication betweeen the Muscovite rulers and their ambassadors due to resistance in European capitals! Genyo 03:35, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)

That is ridiculous info. Marcus2 22:04, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Please respond with facts and documentation, not opinions on Wikipedia, thank you! Genyo 02:27, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I think the chapter on the history of the literary languages is okay and neutral now, though of course it can still be improved. What is needed is more information on the dialectal history: What features of Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian can be observed in which texts? Can please someone who has engaged in this discussion now engage in that? --Daniel Buncic 2005-01-06 13:14 CET

I believe the history section, as it involves only two languages out of three, should be moved to the Ruthenian language article. Ghirlandajo 16:52, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
All three languages have always been (and still are) mutually intelligible, so that trash about the overwhelming "Ruthenian-Moscovian differences" should be removed for neutrality's sake. Ghirlandajo 16:52, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, these differences are nowhere classified as "overwhelming". But Ruthenian texts often included so many polonisms that they looked sometimes more like transliterated Polish (with some East Slavic case endings and structure words replacing the Polish ones). This language was indeed hard to understand vor a Moscovian who did not know Polish. I'm not talking about the peasants and their language; they should be treated in the "dialects" section. And of course it was possible for any Ruthenian to make himself understood in Muscovy; nothing contrary is stated on the page. But there were two quite distinct literary standards. Not one, like Russian nationalists usually maintain, and not three, like Belarusian and Ukrainian nationalists usually claim. Western linguists usually speak of Ruthenian and Russian texts. Daniel Buncic 2005-01-08 09:04 (CET)

This is politics, not linguistics[edit]

By the sheer number of the printed books, the Old Belarusian of the 16th-17th surpassed the contemporary Great Russian (Muscovite). It is sometimes considered, although contended, too, that the even the printing tradition in 16th cent. Muscovy had been initiated either by Skaryna during his visit to Moscow (c.1520s) or by another Belarusian printer, Pyotr Mstislavets (Belarusian: Пётр Мсціславец); c.1564), together with Muscovite Ivan Fyodorov.

It is worth noting, that not only the literature in Old Belarusian, but also the Orthodox literature in Church Slavonic, if printed in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, had been met with certain suspicion and even with hostility in the contemporary Muscovy, being perceived as «spoiled by the Latin and Polish influences» and highly «un-Orthodox». It had come to book-burnings, e.g., in c.1530 (books of Skaryna) and in 1627 (books of Greek-Catholic author Trankvilion-Stawravyetski). In 1627 and in 1672, there had been decrees issued, forbidding buying or owning books «of Lithuanian [Old Belarusian] print».

Put simply, the passage displays a nationalist outlook. The terms "Muscovite language", "Great Russian language", "Old Belarusian language" have no currency in the academia. Furthermore, the passage fails to reveal influence of "Old Belarusian" on "Muscovite" or the other way around. --Ghirla-трёп- 22:54, 3 July 2007 (UTC)