Talk:Eastern Kentucky Coalfield

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possible to rename this page or move the contents?[edit]

I edited this page and added alot before I realized there are some problems with the names of the regions of Kentucky here in Wikipedia. Most geography sites refer to the region as the Cumberland Plateau. I found a site at University of Kentucky that refered to it as the The Eastern Kentucky Coal Field.

The problem with using the Cumberland Plateau as a region in Kentucky is that the wikipedia article refers to the Cumberland plateau that extends beyond Kentucky. This could be differentiated by calling it the Cumberland Plateau of Kentucky and giving it its own article (this article?)

I'm new to wikipedia editing so would appreciate some help sorting this out. -Crunchy Numbers 19:19, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I found out what to do. I plan to create a new article called Cumberland Plateau region of Kentucky and redirect this article there. I will mention that this is an alternate name for part of the Cumberland Plateau in Kentucky. -Crunchy Numbers 05:50, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Consensus was to move but there was some discussion about the target. So if additional discussion here results in a better name. Feel free to renominate. Vegaswikian (talk) 00:44, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Eastern Mountain Coal FieldsEastern Kentucky Coal Field regionRelisted. Not sure it there is real opposition to the proposed move. There is a lot of discussion on what Eastern Kentucky means, but I'm not sure that anyone considers the current name as the best choice and we should keep it. Vegaswikian (talk) 18:27, 15 March 2012 (UTC) The current name of "Eastern Mountain Coal Fields" is erroneous and has been disputed on the article page. The article is about eastern Kentucky, not about "eastern mountain coal fields", so a new name is needed. One obvious choice would be "Eastern Kentucky", but that is problematic because places in the Bluegrass region (including the site of Eastern Kentucky University) use that name. I am proposing Eastern Kentucky Coal Field region, but that might not be the best option. Let's discuss it! Relisted. Maybe needs more eyes? Lets wait for a name to be decided. Lynch7 14:56, 7 March 2012 (UTC) Orlady (talk) 18:34, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

  • Comment Indeed it would. That article wasn't on my radar screen, but its name is also problematic. --Orlady (talk) 21:58, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Eastern Kentucky Coal Field seems prevalent among academics: [1], [2]. The Kentucky website uses "Knobs and Eastern Mountains and Coalfields": [3]. Others use "Eastern Coalfield," or simply "Cumberland Plateau" or "Allegheny Plateau." Bms4880 (talk) 21:08, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Comment: The term "Eastern Kentucky Coal Field", as seen in those references, is used in discussing the geology of the region. In contrast, this article is about this region of Kentucky as a whole, not just about its geology or the occurrence of coal. Accordingly, I think the article name needs to include the word "region" for clarity. However, the singular "Coal Field" might be more appropriate than the plural. The comments placed on this page in 2006 suggested "Cumberland Plateau"; that name and "Allegheny Plateau" are both widely recognized physiographic terms, but neither of these terms is specific to Kentucky (see the articles on Cumberland Plateau and Allegheny Plateau). --Orlady (talk) 21:57, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
You're talking about something like Northern Kentucky, which is not an official geographical region (it lies in the Bluegrass region) but it is a region with similar economic, political, and cultural characteristics. Right? Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:22, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
I was under the assumption that the article was about the easternmost of Kentucky's six regions, which apparently doesn't have an official name. Bms4880 (talk) 14:25, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
There is a need for two articles. One should be about the geographical and geological features of the region only. Another one should be about the cultural, political, economic, etc. aspects of Eastern Kentucky. Right now, this one includes all of that. So we could either move this one (as suggested) and start a new one for the geographical and geological stuff, or we could start a new one for the cultural and economic stuff and move all of the relevant information from this article to that one. Either way, the one about the cultural and economic stuff needs a name, and that's what we need to decide on. After the split, someone will need to go through and see which incoming links need to link to the geographic region and which need to link to the cultural region. I'll try to help with that. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 14:55, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
Suit yourself, but it's generally a good idea to have a single general overview article about any geographic region; focused articles on specific topics always can be split off. Just as Kentucky covers all aspects of the entire state, this article has always been conceptualized as describing all aspects of the region. I see it as conceptually similar to East Tennessee (or Jackson Purchase). --Orlady (talk) 15:38, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
We could have one article called "Eastern Kentucky" and one called "Eastern Kentucky Coal Field" (or the plural). Bms4880 (talk) 16:06, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
That seems the best solution to me, although Orlady mentioned some concerns with "Eastern Kentucky" above. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 16:55, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I see what she's saying now. "Eastern Kentucky Coal Field region" is fine with me, and would remove the need for two separate articles. If the term "Eastern Kentucky" includes significant parts of the state outside the Coal Field region, then it may warrant a separate article. Bms4880 (talk) 18:29, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
[EC] The concern I have is that "eastern Kentucky" is commonly understood to mean roughly the eastern third of the state as seen on a map, thus including places like Lexington, Richmond (home of Eastern Kentucky University), and environs, in addition to the mountainous coal region. These are very different places (physically, culturally, and economically) from the "coal fields" area that has traditionally been in the scope of this article and its associated WikiProject task force. The region covered by this article is rather well-defined in reality; the only problem is finding the best name for it. --Orlady (talk) 18:32, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
Maybe I have a different perspective from over here in the western end of the state, but I always think of Lexington as "Central Kentucky", "the Bluegrass region", or "the Golden Triangle", but never as "eastern Kentucky". Acdixon (talk · contribs) 19:27, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
It appears to me that your perspective isn't a universal one, Acdixon. Looking in Google for examples of the usage of "Eastern Kentucky" as a region name, here's what I found:
  • The top several items are on the search results list are all for Eastern Kentucky University, which is in Richmond, in the bluegrass region.
  • The East Kentucky Power Cooperative serves much of the eastern half of Kentucky (see map), ironically not including some places in the region that Wikipedia currently calls "Eastern Mountain Coal Fields".
  • The Southern & Eastern Kentucky Tourism Council (website at this link) seems to cast a large geographic net. Their attractions list includes, for example places in Frankfort and Nicholasville.
  • The Eastern Kentucky Exposition Center is in Pikeville, which is most definitely in the eastern coal fields.
  • The scope of the East Kentucky Genealogy website is pretty much the same as the scope of this article. The homepage lists the counties and refers to them as the "East Kentucky coalfields".
  • The Center for Rural Development in Somerset operates a website that it calls Eastern Kentucky PRIDE. Their 38-county service area includes part of the region covered by this article, but extends a lot farther to the west.
  • The U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Kentucky has courts in the "eastern mountain coal field" towns of Pikeville, London, and Ashland, but it also has them in Lexington, Covington, and Frankfort. (Images rotate on their website.)
  • This employment program for "Eastern Kentucky" appears to serve much (but not all) of the eastern coal fields region described in this article. I didn't notice any county or city names that don't fit the scope of this article.
  • This Visit Eastern Kentucky website covers part of this region and extends outside it a little bit.
  • [At this point in the results list I got bored and didn't look at all of the hits.]
  • The Eastern Kentucky District of the Church of the Nazarene seems to be the entire eastern half of the state. The Episcopal Diocese of Lexington has a similar scope, but doesn't use the term "eastern Kentucky".
  • This news story (on Louisville's NPR station) about an "Eastern Kentucky hospital" is about a hospital in Rockcastle county, which this Wikipedia article defines as being outside its region.
It seems to that "Eastern Kentucky" is geographically ambiguous enough that a more specific term is needed. --Orlady (talk) 20:53, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
Oh, I don't doubt my perception isn't universal. Just wanted to point out that not everyone thinks of eastern Kentucky as the full eastern third of the state. I have a similar issue where I'm from. When I say I'm from "western Kentucky", people usually think of the Jackson Purchase, but I'm at least an hour east of there. If I say "central Kentucky", they think no farther west than Elizabethtown, and I'm more than an hour west of there. I've adopted the term "west-central Kentucky", but I doubt you'll find many Google hits for that either. I'd be OK with your proposed move to "Eastern Mountain Coal Fields region". It isn't perfect, but clearly, nothing is going to be. Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:54, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.


Obviously the earlier "region" was superfluous. The region as a whole is "Eastern Kentucky"; the coalfields (as shown in the sources above) are the coalfields, not the "coal field region" (see, inter alia, WP:OR and WP:NEO). The content of the page already reflected that and now the title has been brought back into conformity. Quite possibly, the regional content should be forked over to Eastern Kentucky and the hand-wringing above about exact boundaries could be dealt with sensibly.

In any case, the current miniscule Eastern Kentucky coalfield certainly needs its edit history and content merged here, regardless of whether the final article treats the region as a whole (with the coalfield proper as a subsection) or merely the coalfields. — LlywelynII 16:57, 13 October 2013 (UTC)