Talk:Eastern Orthodox Church

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Orthodox is not Catholic in any sense[edit]

Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox churches in no sense consider themselves catholic. The Introduction must be changed completely. (talk) 14:39, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

The authoritative Catholic Encyclopedia makes no mention anywhere of Greek or Russian Orthodox Churches being called catholic in any sense. (talk) 15:09, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
The name is well referenced and it is the product of long discussions and consensus. Read the Discussion page. --Coquidragon (talk) 16:49, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
Nowhere in Greek or Russian official doctrine is it stated, nowhere, that they are catholic, nowhere. (talk) 16:58, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
I would suggest you read the documents of Orthodoxy again. This statement is well supported by references, has long been discussed, and it was agreed by consensus of many editors. Please stop your changes.--Coquidragon (talk) 17:07, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
Quote for me just one passage, just one, where Greek or Russian churches today call themselves catholic and I will desist. You have not one single passage to cite. (talk) 17:11, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
The only reason I don't undo your edit is because of WP 3RR rule. Please take your time to read this discussion page. Plenty of references to official documents of Orthodoxy are cited here. I am not going to do your job. If you continue to delete wording approved by consensus of editors, WP has strict rules about this type of editing. Please, refrain from continuing to do so. If you want it change the wording, wait until a consensus is reach to change it. I'll be back in 24 hours and undo your edit. Please, read, read, read.--Coquidragon (talk) 17:30, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
When you come back, bring me one passage, just one, where Greek or Russian official doctrine of today states that they are catholic. Bring me just one. (talk) 17:40, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
The passage reads:

...officially called the Orthodox Catholic Church,[4][5][6][7][8][9][note 1]

The things in the brackets ([4][5][6][7][8][9][note 1]) are called references and they are all from reliable sources and they are all verifiable so they satisfy Wikipedia's criteria of inclusion. Please stop your unsupported changes to the article by edit-warring. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 18:57, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── The term catholic (originally meaning "universal") has a wider historical usage, not necessarily referring exclusively to the Roman Catholic Church. See History of the term "Catholic", as well as Catholicism#Divergent interpretations. As Dr.K. has pointed out, we have numerous reliable sources supporting the assertion that the Eastern Orthodox Church has, in certain cases, used the term catholic to refer to itself. It is not by any means surprising that the Catholic Encyclopedia (a publication geared toward Roman Catholics) would not agree to call the Eastern Orthodox Church "catholic", but the point here is not what others call the Eastern Orthodox Church, but what the Eastern Orthodox Church calls itself. For what little it may be worth, I too was skeptical when I first saw this claim that the Eastern Orthodox Church officially called itself "Catholic", but I conceded the point after examining the cited sources which show that some Eastern Orthodox theologians and scholars have in fact used this terminology. — Richwales (no relation to Jimbo) 22:18, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Tell me please, do you ever recite the Nicene Creed during liturgy? What does the Church call herself in that Creed? Elizium23 (talk) 22:25, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Wow... a mountain out of molehill. "catholic" in the Nicene Creed simply is another word for universal. It does not specifically mean Roman Catholic. Orthodox Christians aren't Roman Catholics, but we are catholic, i.e. universal, open to everyone, and we happen to share some theological common ground with the Roman Catholics. Tpkatsa (talk) 21:43, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Orthodox Church and Xenophobia in the 21th century[edit]

How is it possible that a "christian" church generates racism and xenophobia in the 21th century? Which are the social causes of that phenomenon?

Google book results from 21th century (Books, UN reports , and writtings of western Sociologist scientists and civil rights movements)

There are more than 3 090 results for the relation of racism xenophoby and the Orthodox church. (it is an engine of ethnic hatred and chauvinism until this day),cd_min:2000,cd_max:2099&sa=X&ei=MI7FUe6oG6OJ4ASHg4HwDw&ved=0CCIQpwUoAQ&fp=1&biw=1887&bih=996&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&cad=b&sei=WI7FUY-bKKvc4QS0j4HwAw

Just some very FEW example from the results:

UN. Dag Hammarskjöld Library : United Nations Documents Index: No.4 January-march 2004 - Page 107 /* February 2014 */ the Special Rapporteur on Contemporary Forms of Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance, focuses mainly on the status and importance of the Romanian Orthodox Church, the situation of non- Orthodox

Cristian Romocea : Church and State: Religious Nationalism and State Identification ... - Page 137

Attempts at inner spiritual resistance and formal denunciations of xenophobic and anti-Semitic political activities came only ... Conclusion The investigation of the history of Orthodox church–state relations has shown that Romanian Orthodox

John Anthony McGuckin - The Encyclopedia of Eastern Orthodox Christianity, 2 Volume Set - Page 504

.. (over Estonia and Ukraine) and the R.O.C. / Romanian Orthodox Church (over Moldavia); some of them are still unresolved. The ROC has also been deeply affected by the tides of widespread xenophobia, nationalism, fundamentalism,

Linda Woodhead, Christopher Partridge, Hiroko Kawanami: Religions in the Modern World: Traditions and Transformations

In many cases they have been active in supporting the resurgent forms of ( sometimes xenophobic) nationalism which have developed in the wake of communism. Themost notorious example has been in Serbia, where the Serbian Orthodox Church

Elizabeth Pond: Endgame in the Balkans: regime change, European style - Page 226

and thus maintain the unity of the Serbian Orthodox Church, as well as his rejection of Western liberal norms. ... figures" with the values of the Serbian Orthodox Church, "marked by archaism, collectivism, anti-Western stands and xenophobia.

Geraldine Fagan - Believing in Russia: Religious Policy After Communism - page: 205.

Alexander Verkhovsky, 'Role of the Russian Orthodox Church in Nationalist, Xenophobic and Anti-Western Tendencies in Contemporary Russia: Not Nationalism, but Fundamentalism', paper for 'Xenophobia and Postsocialism'

Raphael Walden :Racism and Human Rights - page 123.

Finally, given the prominence of the Russian Orthodox Church in the formation of post-Soviet national identity and its unhappy ... of the multi-ethnic Russian Federation, in the development of measures to combat xenophobia and intolerance.

Daphne Halikiopoulou - Patterns of Secularization: Church, State and Nation i

Homogeneity as the ultimate national value may promote xenophobia and totalitarian attitudes (Fragoudaki and Dragona, 1997: ... identity, and increases the need to assert this identity and rally around its main defender: the Orthodox Church.

Stephen R. Goodwin : World Christianity in Local Context: Essays in Memory of David A.

These xenophobic features of Bulgarian nationalism have cloaked ethnic and religious discrimination in patriotic wrappings, placing membership in the Bulgarian Orthodox Church and devotion to the Fatherland above all. This nationalism

Daniel B. Clendenin: Eastern Orthodox Christianity: A Western Perspective

This xenophobia toward the West has ebbed and flowed over the past one thousand years in the life of Russia in general; in the last five years it has markedly increased within the Orthodox church. The Russian Orthodox Church, which with

Daniel Benjamin : Europe 2030 - Page 118

On the other hand, the growing influence of the Orthodox Church and widespread xenophobia and intolerance of minorities could generate social tensions and amplify Russia's demographic challenges. Russia should learn from Europe

Benjamin Forest, Juliet Ellen Johnson, M. T. (Marietta Tigranovna) Stepaniants: Religion And Identity In Modern Russia: The Revival Of Orthodoxy ... - Page 137

The Orthodox Church has also adopted a defensive position in regards to perceived religious competitors and free speech. Chistiakov laments the xenophobia and "opposition to Christians of other traditions" expressed by many in the Church

Allen D. Hertzke: The Future of Religious Freedom: Global Challenges - Page 193

In a July 2007 open letter, leading academics, journalists, and human rights activists accused the Orthodox Church of fostering a “new national and religious ideology” that risked negating democracy and “endorsing xenophobia and a cult of

Katja Richters : The Post-Soviet Russian Orthodox Church: Politics, Culture and ... - Page 23

that on 28th December 1998, the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church noted with regret that 'some clerics declare civil weddings illegitimate or demand the dissolution of marriages between partners ... to nationalist and xenophobic. --Werbeln (talk) 13:07, 19 February 2014 (UTC) --Werbeln (talk) 13:33, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

What is your suggestion for improving the article? Elizium23 (talk) 14:16, 19 February 2014 (UTC)


As things stand, the Macedonian Orthodox Church – Ohrid Archbishopric and its self-proclaimed autocephaly is not officially recognized by other Orthodox churches, nor is it in communion with any of them. Therefore, unless I am missing something, its presence should not be included in the article Eastern Orthodox Churches. Or if some editors can demonstrate that it should, could we please try and make the case. Important notice: this does not affect its status as a valid Christian Church, just the grouping and it has nothing to do with any naming issues. Politis (talk) 21:18, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Design of references[edit]

Notice: A discussion has been started at Talk:Gospel of Matthew#Design of references that has bearings on my intention to improve the structuring of references in this article, and potential for some eventual project-level participation (or higher). Evensteven (talk) 19:14, 17 April 2014 (UTC)