Talk:Economy of the Republic of Ireland

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The Welfare State - health service[edit]

Please review the edits re: the health service. They are accurate, though they may need presented in a more NPOV way. This is difficult, as essentially the health service in Ireland is a disaster by all accounts and absolutely diabolical. I mean, 170 patients on trolleys in corridors awaiting A&E treatment without any kind of national emergency (apart from the situation itself) is fairly appalling. This was the situation a day or two ago.

while still being one of the best in the world. Relative to most countries, though it isn't perfect, we're guaranteed treatment, which is the primary concern of everyone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.202.131.66 (talk) 21:19, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

The two-tier health system is also well documented - it exists. How one describes it in any kind of neutral way without hiding that fact, I do not know. zoney talk 21:17, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Agreed that their is a severe problem with the health service in Ireland ("The Eleven Kingdoms") but it is important that it should not outweight an article on the economy. Djegan 21:36, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The health section is still a bit POV; it could do with a bit of international perspective instead of sounding like a shrill TV3 news segment. The article does not distinguish between elective and non-elective procedures in public health; the former are free to everyone. Also, while the description of the medical card system mentions a figure of a million people, it seems to describe the system as being available to only the completely indigent. In fact almost 40% of the population is covered by the medical card system. jimg

FAC objections[edit]

These objections need to be addressed by someone with more competence than I possess. Filiocht 13:34, Nov 9, 2004 (UTC)

  • Object. Certainly not bad, but I have some issues: 1) The article is called "Economy of Ireland", but appears to be only about the Republic of Ireland. This should be corrected (either the title should change or the contents should reflect it is also about Northern Ireland). 2) The history has almost nothing on the early history. Everyting up to 1848 is covered in a single sentence, and 3/4 of the section is about the 20th century or later. This trend is noticeable troughout the entire article; the present and recent past are getting most of the attention. I understand this is the period for which most information is available, but a better overview is really needed for an encyclopedia. In addition, this makes the article read rather "dated" at times: "In 1999, trade between Ireland and the United States was worth around $18.5 billion, a 24% increase over 1998." looks like the last information on this is already 5 years old. 3) Some additional figures for the history section (or elsewhere) to compare would also be nice. I can think of graphs or tables with the GPD or inflation (or other indicators) every so many years (10, 20). 4) "Recent economic circumstances" should be merged with the history. 2000-2004 is as much part of history as all years before. 5) I don't think there is a reason to keep all of the information that is left over from the CIA book. Some of this information is really not very useful (such as the historic exchange rates in US$), others are duplicates of the information in the table. The rest could probably be integrated with that table as well (I like the table). Jeronimo 19:33, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The Republic of Ireland didn't exist before 1922. I've moved content from prior to that to the Economy of Ireland article. Nicely divides the content and gets around the "not enough pre-20th century content". Also we can later work on Economy of Ireland. zoney talk 11:55, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I'm not entirely happy with this solution: strictly speaking the Republic of Ireland came into existence in 1949 (or 1916 for the romantically inclined). 1922 has nothing to do withthe founding of the republic. This article should really be Economy of the Irish Free State and Republic of Ireland now. I personally would have preferred a real Economy of Ireland article: all the island from early modern period on. As it stands, a summary of this article will have to be incorporated back into Economy of Ireland now. Filiocht 12:32, Nov 11, 2004 (UTC)
Also this sentence: 'The country has a total of 36 airports and airfields, of which 4 - Dublin Airport, Shannon International Airport, Cork International Airport and Belfast International Airport are of a substantial size.' needs changing. How many of the 36 are in the republic? and the 4 becomes 3? and Belfast airport goes? Filiocht 12:35, Nov 11, 2004 (UTC)
Ah. Good arguments. Perhaps we need to rename this to Economy of Ireland in the 20th century?
Quite obviously, my actions were a result of the ill-fitting title of "Economy of the Republic of Ireland". Evidently this is (still) an inappropriate title for the content on the page. How are we going to organise things? zoney talk 13:16, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Moved from defunct split, comments may or may not be valid:

The Republic of Ireland did not exist prior to 1922. So with the main economy article being moved to Economy of the Republic of Ireland, it doesn't make sense to have (much) pre-1922 content there. The pre-1922 content is somewhat awkward to classify as "Economy of the Republic of Ireland", not to mention pre-1949. And this article has all-island content post-1922 also.

Also this is the ideal page title under which to write about the economic effects of partition, as the final section.

This new article needs a lot of work - Ireland's 19th century in particular was noteworthy. I think the relevant section here is not accurate in its depiction of Ireland at that time - I think we did have more industry, albeit concentrated mostly around Belfast and to some degree in Dublin.

But economy is more than industry, and the article does not go into depth on the agricultural economy of the time. All the market towns of Ireland for example, how they came about.

Going back earlier, what about the Vikings? They had economy. What about Ireland's coastal cities? Galway for example was rich from sea trade.

Much work to be done. zoney talk 12:18, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Education[edit]

This sentence sounds weird to me, I can't really place the context or meaning of it. "The Institute of Technology system has recently overtaken the universities in terms of first year enrollment numbers and this trend appears to be accelerating; this is the realisation of the binary system's strength in Ireland."

That last part in bold seems to be misusing the phrase "binary system", especially since there is a link to Binary. --rimbaud 15:54, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

As you pointed out it is linked to the Binary page which states:
In higher education, an education system that includes both polytechnic, or college, and university style institutions. These institutions are often intended to complement each other and form an important basis in the overall education policy and infrastructure of a country or region.
Applying that meaning to the word binary in the sentence you quoted allows the sentence to make complete sense (now thats a mouthful!) CGorman 17:40, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)


Ireland has a positive future and a wealth of highly educated people, I cant see this mentioned in the article.

Ireland demographics are positive, with the youngest educated workforce in Europe http://www.idaireland.com/why-ireland/young-talented-workforce/ Can we add this to the intro? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.79.251.160 (talk) 16:20, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Economy of the North[edit]

Can anyone tell me the situation of the economy in the North in terms of growth, strong sectors, contribution to British economy and budget surplus(if applicable). All I know is it's doing better after the troubles. I'm trying to improve the articles on Ireland in the French wikipedia and they're missing info on the North. Thanks in advance.- Dalta 15:53, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I can't find any figures newer than 1997-98, but the NI economy has actually been hit badly, not impoved, since then. Loss of Harland and Wolf, most of Bombardier, call centres fleeing, etc has reduced the jobs, etc
In 1997, Northern Ireland took £3.4B in direct subvention from Great Britian. It didn't have a budget surplus, obviously. This isn't even taking into account whatever proportion of the UK's military spending goes into NI... --Kiand 15:57, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Infestructure[edit]

There ar many incroct facts in this section. The M1 only goes from the border toDublin, Not along the whole east cost and Brodband coerage is nowhere near 50%, eiter Geograpicly or poplation wise

The article says it is 'available' to 50% of homes; not 'in' 50%... theres an ennormous difference. CGorman 21:37, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

State ownership detail[edit]

The "State ownership and deregulation" section says several times that the government controls "much" of a given industry. I think it's important to be more precise, giving numbers with references. This section needed a lot of copyediting just now, so I'm also not sure I trust its qualitative judgements, so some research is probably in order. -- Beland 03:29, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Health care section[edit]

This section sounds like a disgruntled citizen trying to convince us of what bad shape the country's health care system is in. Maybe it is, but the point could be made in a less flimsy fashion by substituting more details for broad generalizations - or at the very least, reliable sources to support those generalizations. Toward the end, it is less like a coherent description and more like a list of half-remembered horror stories.

What does it mean that anyone with "a medical reason" can get free health care? How many people in the country don't have any health insurance? Are people in Ireland healthier or sicker than those in other European countries?

This section also contains information which is not in the "main" article, Health care in the Republic of Ireland, so these two pages need to be re-synchronized, with the overall summary here and more details and background there. -- Beland 03:51, 11 May 2006 (UTC)



            • Okay at the very end there is a </ref> that is visible. I fixed everything else (where as the education and economis section had been really mixed up with the healthcare one - i can't believe no on noticed) but i have no idea how to fix this. ha. so if someone could that would be great!

Featured status[edit]

This article was not in a state I would call worthy of featured status. However, the Wikipedia:Featured article removal candidates procedure requires that notice of defects be posted here and then left for a time. If you think it's been long enough and the problems noted above haven't been fixed, feel free to continue the removal procedure (or continue fixing the article!) -- Beland 03:49, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

$[edit]

why is the gdp calculated in $ instead of euro


External debt[edit]

Is this using a completely different concept of External debt than the rest of the world uses? Theres no way in hell the state owes over a trillion to -anyone-, particularly as our (comparatively negligble) national debt is under 40 billion. CIA Factbook puts the states actual external debt at 11B.

If someone has a different meaning for external debt than what everyone else uses, I'd like to hear it... --Kiand 21:07, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Ignore what I had hear earlier... RedHotHeat added it to the template (I forgot old revs of pages show the current template) from the CIA fact book. This is clearly erroneous, so I've reverted to the 1998 figures, as these are at least accurate, for 8 years ago. External debt cannot be higher than total public debt. Might drop the CIA an email, though I doubt they'll even read it... --Kiand 21:21, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
And I've acquired National Treasury Managment Agency figures [1] which show that our external debt is 0. Nothing. Nada. I would guess the CIA updating had some issues here, I'm sure you'll find the $1.049Tr is in fact the external debt of another couuntry. --Kiand 21:27, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
The CIA's response is that they are World Bank figures that cover personal debt also. Which means they're completely useless for the purpose of this article, and indeed fairly useless for what the CIA Factbook reports in the first place. --Kiand 13:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

IDA Ireland[edit]

I'm wondering if perhaps we should make more of a mention of the IDA in both the development and continuance of the growth of the Irish economy? I think it's an important point (particularly given the number of countries trying to emulate the model) and is perhaps a little underplayed in this article. Thanks. Lochdale 21:39, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Poverty level[edit]

The figure in the info box of 10% is now 9 years old, any one know where this figure comes from and if there is a more upto date figure? Fabhcún 18:16, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

GA failed[edit]

The article currently has 12 citation needed tags. Please either remove the information until sources are found or begin adding sources as soon as you can. Go through the rest of the article and make sure any other statements that may be questioned over their verifiability has inline citations as well. The article is well put together, but with a quick glance, these citation tags need to be fixed before a full review is given. Feel free to renominate once the inline citations are added. --Nehrams2020 03:53, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Lead and Structure of the article[edit]

The lead contains much statistical information about the economy that isn't mentioned elsewhere. Perhaps this could be moved to a "nature of the economy" section and the lead more accurately summarise the article.AleXd (talk) 18:41, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Updates[edit]

Maybe it could be time to update some of the information and statistics in this article? Many figures such as that of the Population below poverty line and the GDP growth are certainly outdated. For example, it mentions a GDP growth of 4.7% (2005 est.) when the ESRI has estimated it will be -0.4% in 2009. That is a huge difference!). I would update it myself but I lack the knowledge of economics to actually know what I'm doing! 86.42.204.52 (talk) 13:20, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

It would be normal practice to give the latest published figures, which I think are probably for 2007 when the rate was 5.1%, so updating it might actually increase the gap between the "official" figure and the current speculation about the 2009 rate. Also as the poverty line is relative, not absolute, the "poverty rate" might actually be reduced if average earnings fall. Sarah777 (talk) 21:25, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Broken link[edit]

The reference no 9 is broken. I have found the same document here: http:// workforall.net /IRELAND_The_wealth_of_the_nation.pdf

I am not sure why but workforall.net is blacklisted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.132.124 (talk) 21:44, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Recent "news" needs summarisation[edit]

Recent updates to reflect the current state of affairs (while possibly neccesary) are fast becoming a "news" section. As a suggestion, the anon who has done a lot of good work recently and added much of this may want to consider summarising/integrating content. Instead of adding in a new section for each piece of "news" in the past weeks. It would make for a much more appropriate structure and make for a more readable article. That represents a longer term view... Guliolopez (talk) 01:41, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree, however, the situation is developing so fast that it is difficult to maintain an accurate up-to-date representation that is well-summarised. In my opinion, seriousness of the situation warrants regular updates asap. Of course, once things settle down, it will be much easier to consolidate the "news". It may appear negatively biased - but that is the nature of the news that is being reported in the press, including some newspapers that had a notably positive bias on the economy and property prices in the past. Official company financial reports are historical in nature(some more so than others!) and are only now beginning to "catch up" with events. The stock markets would seem to agree. As you pointed out in your edits, some references still need to be added... 85.53.12.158 (talk) 16:51, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
OK. The other point to note however is that (when I made the statement above) all I was advocating was a little bit of summarisation and reorganisation. (To perhaps include some of the new developments in context in the main body, rather than adding "news" down the end.) Now however the problems are different. Frankly I'm not sure if it was you or another anon, but the inclusion of uncited statements and commentary like the following are not at all appropriate. In fact, it's the very definition of the type of original research and analysis that our guidelines strongly advise against:
  • "[the solvency issue] is unacknowledged by management of Irish banks, the financial regulator and the government" Surely this is opinion? What cites for such a claim?
  • "it is now probable that [the bailout will] encourage bank executives to engage in riskier activities, [leading] to more financial crises in the future" This is at best educated (if uncited) speculation and at worst crystal ball reading
  • "Yet more capital is being artificially directed to support over-inflated property prices" Who says? In what context? Cite?
  • "It is now likely that the crisis will be prolonged as market prices for property will take much longer to return to long term sustainable levels rather than allowing the re-adjustment to take place. A swifter adjustment would have corrected the imbalances more quickly" Who's opinion is this exactly? And what's it doing here? This is not an economics blog for proposing alternative proposals.
  • "Considering the rapidly deteriorating fiscal situation, the government could be ill-prepared to honour its guarantee of the entire financial system in Ireland in the event of bank failures occurring." Again, this is an opinion synthesised based on the sources. We don't do uncited speculation here.
Please have a think about addressing these issues. Or the whole thing may be summarised or culled drastically to simply remove this stuff. (FYI - Please don't take this the wrong way. There's a lot of good stuff here on the current state - that needs coverage. And personally I happen to agree with much of the section's conclusions. However, "opinions" and "conclusions" [mine or yours] have no place on a mainspace article in this form.) Guliolopez (talk) 17:08, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
Fair enough. Several statements including those about future crises and honouring the guarantee have been removed along with other minor revisions as I agree with you that these are opinions. I've left the statements in the section Government-backed mortgages because I have seen many references to this and there appears to be a consensus about this from a variety of sources (which I need to find again). It does need citations and perhaps also rewording. I'll try to get back to that... 85.53.12.158 (talk) 18:21, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Recession of 2009[edit]

Do we need this section? Despite Sarah777's efforts it is still full of conjecture and inaccuracies. Since the recession started in 2008 why not a Recession of 2008 section (most likely) followed eventually by a Recession of 2010 section etc? From the first sentence it is poor: "Ireland has been in recession since second quarter of 2008 and some commentators have claimed it is entering a depression, [38][39] with GDP down over 10%[40][41] and unemployment up 87.5%[42] to 11%[43][44]." GDP down and unemployment up since when? The 2nd quarter of 2008? None of the refs support this. "Influential American economist Paul Krugman has stated that Ireland faces the worst economic outlook in the world[45]. Ireland has the world's highest external debt at 811% of GDP[46] due to excessive Government borrowing and the financial bailout and Nationalisation of Ireland's banks[47] which were loaded with debt due to the Irish property bubble." Complete conjecture as to the cause of the external debt. I doubt it is even accurate. Ireland's external debt at close to 2 trillion must have long predated the current crisis. I could go on but the rest just consists of 'most economists think' without any references for support. Did the author poll the world's economists? Surelay anything salvegable from this section could be added to the next section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.94.181.78 (talk) 16:08, 30 April 2009 (UTC) they really like soup —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.31.113.131 (talk) 17:47, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. This is an article on the economy, we don't need unsubstantiated opinions. Title should read Global Recession, Banking Crises, or even Credit Crunch IMO.

Are you willing to re write? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.79.181.191 (talk) 02:35, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Reading this whole article one gets the impression that Ireland is currently a wealthy state with just a bit of overconsumption... It is not. I have lived here for 2 years (it is today June 15, 2011), and the economy is totally dysfunctional. In this period net income has dropped by 1/3. Cuts and savings are being made constantly, in order to show Europe 'we can handle the situation'. Fact is, all cuts and reductions to welfare state has saved €289 million over last year. Year-on-year budget deficit (not including interest on loans from ECB/IMF etc) is €18 billion (18000 million!). Write it as it is - Ireland is in fact a default country; counting GNP per capita it is on same level as Greece [that as this is written is negotiating its second bail-out and/or default]. Page really needs proper revision, and correct figures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.46.59.228 (talk) 17:29, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Reassessment downwards[edit]

Hello

Unfortunately I feel that this article does not meet the criteria for a b-class article: it is incomplete and inaccurate in places, as noted by other editors on this page. It is full of disputations and missing citations and overall not worthy of B class, especially for such an important topic. Best,--Ktlynch (talk) 15:32, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Reply[edit]

What are the B class article standards? 70.62.142.66 (talk) 20:40, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

The 2nd citation - disputed[edit]

The second citation[2] says that the GDP fell 1.2%, not is -1.2%. But Google Public Data says that GDP is -5.99, which is more accurate because on second citation[3] says that it fell, not is. 70.62.142.66 (talk) 20:38, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Merge "Natural resources of Ireland" with this article[edit]

The majority of nations have natural resources included in their Economy article - does Ireland really need a separate page? The "Natural resources" article has a lot of issues which I feel would be better handled on this page.Gymnophoria (talk) 16:02, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

That's not true, many more have natural resources either under the country or under geography of the country. That so many countrie have it either under geography or economy indicated to me that it should be factored out and the Natural reources of Ireland article has got the split right. 20:40, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
To judge by its name, "Natural resources of Ireland" should include Northern Ireland, though at present it doesn't really. jnestorius(talk) 20:41, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Disagree with a merge. There's enough of a separation of materials to keep both pages. Agree with Jnestorius that Northern Ireland should be include on the natural resource article.--Patrick (talk) 13:51, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

No mention of tourism[edit]

I was a bit surprised to see no mention of how much tourism contributed to the economy. Then again I had to search a bit too before I found farming as a part of agri-food so perhaps it is there but under something I don't recognize :) Anyway I thought tourism contributed something like 5% so I'd have though it was big enough to have a mention. Dmcq (talk) 19:43, 26 July 2012 (UTC)yes but i still think there is tourism in ireland and that is my finial statement...

Export and import citation[edit]

There's no link to the source of the numbers about export and import. Can the person who wrote those please refer to his/her source.cause i mean like you dont even know if thats true, so its not really reliable!!!

Merge[edit]

Two merges (recruitment/resources) were proposed some time ago. Per my related note on the "recruitment" page, I am strongly in favour of a merge/redirect from that article. (The recruitment article was originally a very broad and unencyclopaedic opinion piece. While this has been improved somewhat, I can see no reason to keep it separate. It should ideally be merged into a small sub-section here and a redirect left at the existing article). In terms of the "resources" article, per my related note several years ago, the resources article has had several problems. While some improvements have been forthcoming, the resources article still has problems (scope isn't clear, includes outofdate lists of mining companies, and awkward references to related legislative artefacts). If those can be addressed somewhat, then maybe the resources article can/should remain separate. However, if it can't be salvaged as a whole, then the salvageable pieces should likely be merged here. If there are no objections, I am going to merge the recruitment stuff soon. Would welcome more discussion on the resources article. Guliolopez (talk) 01:15, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

OK. Seeing as there hasn't been any objections to the above in the last 4+ months (and no objections since the merge was proposed 6 months ago), I have merged the "recruitment" content from Recruitment in the Republic of Ireland. I have removed anything that was tagged as problematic RE cites before merging. However several issues remain. (The whole section frankly is still a bit of a fluff piece). At some point we need to address the other merge proposal (natural resources). Guliolopez (talk) 15:48, 14 May 2013 (UTC)