Talk:Edinburgh, Leith and Newhaven Railway

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Former good article nominee Edinburgh, Leith and Newhaven Railway was a Engineering and technology good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
October 26, 2008 Good article nominee Not listed

Route Diagram[edit]

Had a look at this today. Not as simple as I had thought. More thought is required. Commented tag now in the article. --Stewart (talk | edits) 15:54, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Take as long as you need. Let me know if you need any help. --John (talk) 20:16, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
See what you think of this.
Edinburgh rail old.png
. --John (talk) 22:39, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
I've added an edited version to the article. It's maybe a little bit crunchy, I should have rasterized at a higher value. I may redo it if I get the chance. --John (talk) 03:04, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Comments arising from GAR[edit]

It would be interesting to have some expansion of the sourcing comment. I regard the Railscot site and The Illustrated History of Edinburgh's Railways as pretty good and reliable sources. I can see the merit in getting multiple sources for contentious or controversial claims, but I am struggling to see it for this article; as long as reliable sources are provided, what's the problem? --John (talk) 01:25, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Let's put it another way. The article was created on 19th and submitted for GAN on 22nd? The grammar is good, it is neutral and the prose is good. It has fifteen in-line citations, three of which come from RailScot - which I happen to agree is a reliable source; one from a youth club web site to verify that one station is currently in use as a youth centre; one from a web site on Leith Citadel railway station, which is more of an External link than a citation. You use Peter Stubbs' web site as a citation for rediscovery of the southern entrance; it is an interesting web site and its probably acceptable for that purpose, but unlike Railscot, it does not list its references.
The article is some way between a C-class article and a B-class article. It is currently classed as C-class, but I shalln't object if it is reclassified as a B-class article; but it is not a GA-class article. The article is not much longer than Leith Central railway station, which is currently a Start-class article, but that is somewhat under referenced. I'm not asking for multiple sources, I'm asking for sources and an adequate scope. RailScot and SubBrit would normally go into the External links section; but as SubBrit has information on the Scotland Street tunnel that probably does not exist elsewhere, I would accept SubBrit as an in-line citation for post-railway use of Scotland Street tunnel, etc. The Scotland Street tunnel linked to Waverley railway station at right angles to the through lines, but that is not in your article. You mention the Granton boat trains, but the significance is greatly underplayed: the link stopped because the Forth Railway Bridge was built, but that's not in the article. The more I think about it, you have in terms of scope a Start-class article that is referenced by about ten to fifteen minutes of google searches. You have Awdry, Jowett & Smith and Anderson in the sources, but they are not cited as references; were they added as an after thought or did they get copied and pasted from elsewhere? The Glasgow and South Western Railway is a better article than this, and it is only start-class, I must re-assess it to night.

The following references cover the line (in full or part), I verified them to night; and I suspect that you probably could have got these references from RailScott:

  • Thomas, John (1971). A Regional History of the Railways of Great Britain. VI Scotland: The Lowlands and the Borders (1st ed.). Newton Abbot, Devon: David & Charles. ISBN 0-7153-5408-6. OCLC 16198685. 
  • Thomas, John; Paterson, Rev A. J. S. (1984). A Regional History of the Railways of Great Britain. VI Scotland: The Lowlands and the Borders (2nd ed.). Newton Abbott, Devon: David & Charles. ISBN 0-9465-3712-7. OCLC 12521072. 
  • Jowett, Alan (1993). Jowett's Atlas of Railway Centres: of Great Britain showing their development from the earliest times up to and including the 1990s - Volume 1 (1st ed.). Sparkford: Patrick Stephens Ltd. ISBN 1-8526-0420-4. OCLC 30919645. 


I'm happy to work with you to create a GA-class article, but this article is not anywhere near GA class.Pyrotec (talk) 17:34, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
To avoid any doubt, I'm not "attacking" the article as such; the article is generally good. I casting doubts on the wisdom of submitting an article to GAN which was less than a week old; which was of limited scope and used a limited number of web-based references. Pyrotec (talk) 20:41, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your insightful comments. The 90 degree link at Canal St is mentioned, but only in the connections section. I look forward to improving this with you. --John (talk) 07:16, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Edinburgh, Leith and Newhaven Railway/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Starting review.Pyrotec (talk) 11:19, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

GAR[edit]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria


Article was submitted too early in its life, a mere three days after work started.

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose quality:
    B. MoS compliance:
    based almost entirely on two tertiary web sources and two dictionaries
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. References to sources:
    based almost entirely on two tertiary web sources and two dictionaries
    B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
    C. No original research:
    almost no research done
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    B. Focused:
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
    Yes, but its less than a week old!
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
    B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:
    This railway is extensively covered in, books listed in Category:Rail transport book citation templates. For example, Robertson (1983), Thomas (1971), Jowett (1993), Awdry (1990). The Sub Brit web site has useful information not found elsewhere, such as the use of Scotland Street tunnel as a WWII air raid shelter, etc; but for other than this its an External link, not a reference. The article is currently at about C-class, certainly not a GA.