Talk:Editor war

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What about joe?[edit]

Emacs and vi are not the only popular editors. There is a significant "joe" (Joe's Own Editor) camp for those who dislike vi (and believe it to be a glorified version of ed/edlin), and may have cut their teeth on non-unix style text editors such as the IDE's of Borland's Turbo C or Pasal, or MicroPro's WordStar editor under CP/M or MS-DOS. --Thoric 16:19, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

There are zillions of text editors out there, the comp.sources.unix moderator at one point refused to post new editors for that reason.
The Editor War refers to a clash between two of those, that happened to be the most popular with the early Usenet crowd.
WordStar would be a word-processor, not a text editor.--Per Abrahamsen 18:03, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
Actually, this article would do well to have a flat statement like: While the "editor war" between emacs and vi remains relevant for many older users, most new users will look at either in complete disgust or horror and will continue to search for "a proper editor" which is easier to use by default. Menus and common hotkey combinations are common arguments for avoiding those two editors, even though they both could be customised to become friendlier. Common alternates include nano/pico, joe and a small handful of others (very small). Many users will reach for GUI editors whenever possible, most of which are much more "sane" in the eyes of these users. -- Sy / (talk) 13:41, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't think that this is a good idea. This is about vi vs emacs, not about text editors in general. --Apyule 14:48, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Actually the article's name is Editor wars, not vi vs emacs. I believe a reference to other editors wouldn't hurt, although it would seem important to note that the canonical example of editor wars is indeed emacs vs vi (which would lead nicely into the rest of the article as it is now). I would not, however, agree with the example given by Sy above. "complete disgust or horror" does not seem like the sort of term we should be using on an enciclopedic article (and is subjective to begin with), "easier to use" is subjective, and I'm not at all convinced that emacs and vi are only relevant for older users. Capi 03:42, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
I have to agree here; I'm a young guy, and I am interested in both editors (haven't made a choice yet) because I think they are both going to be more powerful than most of what else is out there in the long run. I think many people especially in the development community agree. 128.113.147.60
If you want the power of emacs, but were brought up on OSX or XP/Vista/Win7/Win8, there is a distro called ErgoEmacs. See also the distro Cream, on top of vim. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 13:30, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

customisation[edit]

Typically most vim users customise their editor more than emacs so they don't have to keep hitting the esc-key all the time. I've marked it citation needed, i'm sure some people will argue here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.155.174.85 (talk) 12:25, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

The statement vi users generally do not customize their editor much, as opposed to advanced Emacs users who would not feel comfortable if their heavily customized profile were not available to them. seems more like a rant than fact and it is backed by only a citation that express one user's personal experience. I think it should be deleted or backed up by a source as few would regard it as common knowledge or something. Pink18 09:43, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Some original research here, but methinks is the true (although not necessarily therefore also encyclopedic) answer -- the 'typical' emacs user is a programmer, that writes software using emacs as an IDE. Thus, they tend to work on One Main Machine, and can therefore customize their editor installation to their taste. If they change jobs, or take their work home, they can carry their eLisp config-files on a usbkey, or upload them to a webserver, or similar. This sort of use-case does not change if you assume sometimes the emacs user will be using ssh and TUI-mode emacs; there are just a few systems they need to work on, and they can put their emacs config on each system, relatively easily, in practice. By contrast, the 'typical' vi user is a sysadmin, that (again typically) works in a 'large' corporation slash university, with hundreds or thousands of machines... or if not at present, then at least someday *plans* to do such work. In this scenario, putting your personal config-file on every machine that you may need to perform a sysadmin task upon, is not very practical. Moreover, it is not a Good Idea, since new sysadmins would not know the same keys, and so on and so on. Now, I fully realize that this explanation is not *technically* the truth. It is quite possible to have a homedir associated with your username, and when you login, to any machine on the corporate network, have vim pull some settings from that homedir. But this technical possibility ignores the social and documentation aspect: when you have fifty sysadmins for your five thousand machines, you want all of them to be used to the same vim keystroke-combos, so that they can understand verbal instructions over the phone, so that you can document best practices with the assumption of standard key-combos, and so that new hires from places with similar policies are instantly good to go. Programming *should* have similar constraints, ideally, but in practice there are fewer programmers and fewer machines involved. Hence, the "advanced emacs user" will tend to have a heavily customized config, because there are not as many external constraints. Some vim users, like 86.155.174.85 above, will do *some* customization (to reduce reaching for the esc-key during common operations), but expanding from there to heavy customization is not 'typical' based on my original research aka experience, and in large corporate slash university environments even that is discouraged for the sociological-standardization reasons above. Thus, it is perfectly true that vi users 'generally' do not customize their editor much, as opposed to 'advanced' emacs users who would not feel comfy if their heavily-customized profile were not available to them... as long as you uncover some hidden assumptions about what job the so-called general vi user is doing, and what job the so-called advanced emacs user is doing. Sysadmins, or short-duration technical consultants, that happen to prefer emacs tend to customize it less (and stick with qwerty) so that they can work on customer-machines without too much hassle. Again, this is more external sociological factors, than technical limitations. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 13:58, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Broken link[edit]

The link to http://www.dina.kvl.dk/~abraham/religion/vi-tutorial.html doesn't work. Should I just remove it, or does anyone know of a working replacement URL? (Interestingly, the hostname resolves, but to an IP that either isn't in use at all or is used by a stealth-firewalled machine that isn't a Web server.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.154.160 (talk) 19:41, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

seem to work now Xchmelmilos (talk) 13:37, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
But is broken again as of 2013. Alternative here.[1] 74.192.84.101 (talk) 14:01, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Cleanup of external links section[edit]

Cleaned up the external links somewhat:

There will be space now for the usual ten or so links to the editor war, showing comparisons or war-like information. As it was, it was a drag on a good quality and style. — CpiralCpiral 23:52, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Current?? state of the editor war[edit]

The section headed "Current state of the editor war seems to refer largely to 1999. That's not really current at the time of writing (2014). Perhaps it ought to be renamed or updated? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:630:D0:F111:BDB8:5CD6:8D81:39B8 (talk) 08:59, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

My impression is that standalone (un-integrated) plaintext editor programs have declined in practical importance over the last 15 years. They still have their advocates, are often included in standard software distributions, and are essential for certain highly-specialized tasks, but purely pragmatic programmers (who weren't necessarily around in the 1990s, and use whatever tool helps them code fastest) often don't use them... AnonMoos (talk) 03:44, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
WP:OR... Huihermit (talk) 05:41, 27 June 2014 (UTC)