Talk:Effects unit

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Contents

[edit] Cleanup?

My opinion is that this article needs some cleanup... It just doesn't seem like an encyclopedia entry. I'll go ahead and add the tag, feel free to dispute this.--Hector 20:33, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Any sugestions at the moment? Martijn Hoekstra 15:08, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

A more streamlinesd introduction paragraph (we can include much of that information within the actual article), along with a bit of copy editing and organization for the remainder of the article. --Hector 16:37, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Guitar Effects Box

Today's effects boxes are usually digital. This means that they run with a CPU and software. And that means that they can be implemented in software in an ordinary PC. This has already been done and the software is called Guitar Effects Box. I think someone should mention this software in the article, don't you?

>How about the links section at the bottom?

[edit] Merge

I'd like to propose a merge of these two articles, as I see that they almostly duplicate each other. Basically, they have a same structure:

  • Some general info on effecting
  • "Effects pedal / units consists of..." and "functions like..." - all the same for both subjects
  • Usage, construction, form factor info - they may be different, but "effect units" gives more general info, these should be merged to create a fuller vision of form factors and usage patterns (i.e. rack units, pedal units, virtual (digital) units, other units, various types of routing, etc)
  • Types of effects with probable examples (in both articles these lists should be re-worked and tidied up - as for my taste) - the main body of the article - and they are wildly duplicating each other - should be the one.
  • External links, references, notable mentions, etc - should be also merged / structured if needed.

"Effects pedal" include one more section, that, IMO, doesn't have anything to have with "effects pedal" - it's a trailing section about pedals on other instruments. IMHO, this section should be moved to a separate article, or, preferably, several separate articles (sustain pedal, expression pedal, etc). --GreyCat 06:23, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree that these articles should be merged. All "form factors" should be discussed:
  • Pedals
  • 19-inch rack mounted effects and ½ rack effects
  • Table-top stuff, like Pods
  • Software
--Trweiss 19:03, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

I disagree, an effect UNIT can be for a anything in the strict sense of the term, plus the fact in the guitar world its widely accepted that if you say "pedal" you only mean an effects pedal and an effects unit being seen as more of a rack effects unit. Also it may be easier for people to find purely as effects pedal.

How then do you propose to eliminate the considerable redundant information? What do you mean that an effect unit "can be for ... anything"? Can't a pedal be any kind of effect? (PS: It's good form to sign your post with --~~~~.) --Trweiss 00:19, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
We're not trying to list or make a catalog of all pedals possible — it would be pretty naive to plan such amount of work. We want to: 1) list pedal types; 2) list some of the most popular pedals that are frequently cited, have a "signature" sound and are popular basis for further designs. I strongly believe it *is* possible to make a good "effects pedal" section in "effect units" article. So far, we have 2 votes "for", 1 "against" %) I propose to wait for about a week and then do the merge --GreyCat 05:24, 19 January 2006 (UTC)


I think ^^^ means that an effect unit rack can really be used for any instrument, including the voice. It can be used over pre-recorded material (with a rack, or digitally with an audio program), but a stompbox is specific, used "at-the-moment", and designed for guitars in particular. I'm generally against the idea of a merge also, but I won't say that it isn't possible to successfully merge 'em together.
In against-the-idea, guitarists in particular though, may be looking for info just on stompboxes, after all. I imagine that you guys want to merge the article in a way where the effects themselves are explained just once in their own section, but when it comes to stompboxes, they can apply differently to guitar in:
- common usage and technique (as opposed to other varied instruments where the effect may just be "applied" to get the effect... but certain effects in guitar help last sustaining of a note, achieving heavier rhythms w/ palm mute, etc)
- and history (as in that the stompbox article refers to what decades and styles these effects are used often in for guitar, in contrast to the use with other instruments).
Of course, its perfectly possible to get that information within, but with the way I'm imagining the article to look, it may be a pain to scroll up and down to read upon the description of the effect, and then how it specifically applies to guitar in another article.
I think both articles could be cleaned up so as to apply to each other better though, but I don't think merging is too necessary. It is, after all, going to end up somewhat redundant between links anyway, as we have all the effects in their own specific articles too (which is important of course, due to the kind of things an effect unit/pedal article probably shouldn't be covering, like the technical process in achieving such effects).
Of course, again, it can be done successfully too, but I think someone might eventually make it redundant again within the article. But I could be wrong... it's very hard to tell without seeing it firsthand.
So if it must be done, I suggest making the article in the Effects Unit first, and leaving the Effects Pedal section alone for awhile, until the Units section looks satisfactory... and if it doesn't we can just revert. Also, I would very much like to keep the Effects Pedal "Usage" section - the information there has been helpful to me, so it probabaly will to others as well. -- Shadowolf 20:58, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
I'd oppose a complete merge, but not violently. I think a refactor is a good idea. If the merge is done properly, I think there will need to be a section on effects pedals that will be large enough to warrant an article of its own, and we'll just be splitting it out again.
IMO it would be helpful to have a fairly detailed article at effects unit, and another at effects pedal which should be more of an overview of only the effects commonly used as self-contained pedal units, and also describe the history of the stomp box in general. It's complicated a little by the relatively recent availability of digital pedal units containing the equivalent of several 19" racks of effects or several roadcases of stomp boxes, but I think it can be done. Both articles should link to each other and to more detailed articles on specific effects.
But it can work either way. A refactor is overdue, that's the more important task, and there's also a lot of information still to add. Andrewa 16:38, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
I agree as long as its done with care. Martijn Hoekstra 18:42, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm opposed because many peopple will want to just read about stompboxes, while "effects unit" covers pretty much anything that does does anything to any audio signal, like those vocal pitch-correctors. They're not the same thing. If they're merged though, do it in the manner suggested by trweiss. --Howdybob 17:16, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Oppose - I would rather see this merged into guitar effects. We need an Internal Effects article to deal with rack effects, studio effects, and effects that're built into amps; and an External or Outboard Effects article to deal with stompboxes and other effects that end up on a musician's pedalboard. --Dulcimerist 20:08, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Broaden this page?

Surely effects units are used in post production as much as, if not more than on instruments specifically. I'm trying to pull together the field of sound recording, with coordinated editing - see the added template. I suggest that this page should be given a more general introduction. If it gets too big, then a separate page can always be created called 'musical effects' or 'instrument effects units' with the emphasis on players. --Lindosland 15:51, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

They are also used in video post-production of course, which should get a mention here. --Lindosland 15:51, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mistake to merge

I think it would be a mistake to merged effects pedal into are effects unit. Stompboxes come in many unique flavours and have a history, and even a folklore of their (what happened to the rest of this text? --Hector 17:38, 23 July 2006 (UTC))

I'm strongly against a complete merge. Stompbox users have a very different mentality, approach, and usage paradigm than recording engineers or synth people using rack effects processors. Stompboxes are very much about packaging and usage and vibe. With stompboxes returning with a vengeance after the guitar rackmount era of the 90s, this is the worst time to eliminate a dedicated and self-sufficient stompbox page. Stompboxes have colloquial names distinguishing them and their packaging-usage from rack gear. Stompboxes are centered around distortion stages and guitar. Amptone.com; MichaelSHoffman 20:51, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Leave alone

I think you should certainly mention pedals, though I believe they have enough information to warrant a seperate article, linked from this page --Mbatterham 23:55, 23 July 2006 (UTC)


I would also vote against merger. As a recording engineer and instructor I find that the current article is to instrument based. I have two points to make:

1) Technically stomp boxes are connected serially. Racked effects units would be used in parrallel. In other words, effects units are additive effects.

2) Applications: Stomp boxes (effects pedals)are used mainly as performance tools during concerts, etc. Effects Units are used during post production. An article on Effects Units could contain information about use including situations in sound design (for film and tv), music recording and mixing, and forensic audio.

In conclusion, while the current article has good information; I find it a bit vague. It probably suffers from the attempt to merge it with effects pedals.

This is my first wiki post, pardon any lapses in netiquette. --andrewssonic


[edit] Pedal Mods

There should be some info about pedal modifications. There are several websites that offer a service where you mail your pedal in and they'll mod it for a fee, or you can purchase an already modified pedal. The most popular modded pedal is the BOSS DS-1. Modding often involves replacing an entire circuit with another one that costs about $70, the red LED is always replaced with a different color.

Hottie Mods

Analogman

--Jivesucka 15:51, 23 July 2006 (UTC)


Perhaps an entire section shouldn't be created. Just include a few links of interest (along with some sites that are of assistance to DIY guys, like diystompoxes.com) at the bottom of the page with a new header and small description. --Hector 17:40, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal: Break out Guitar-dedicated articles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Distortion#Proposed_Article_Titles_and_Changes

The refactoring is in-progress. MichaelSHoffman 03:45, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The refactoring is done. MichaelSHoffman 08:46, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] more on a merge / or a possible rename

Across the "effects unit", "effects pedal" and "guitar effects" pages, there appears to be a lot of redundant content. I see above that people are arguing against merging "unit" and "pedal," but could we perhaps retitle "effects unit" to be multi-effects unit, or "rack effects (unit)? I feel that 'unit' is somewhat vague, and if we agreed to just write about rack effects, or multieffects units, and said as much, it might be more clear. A distinction would have to be made between rack and floor multieffects units. -dialectric User:Dialectric

I agree with you. Effects pedals should be one separate article; which could deal with the small, external boxes which guitars, basses, etc. make use of on stage. Rack effects and studio effects should be another separate article; which could deal with the internal or built-in effects that often aren't portable, and are generally only used in the studio. Perhaps the two articles could be desginated as Internal Effects and External Effects. Internal effects which are built into amps, or rackmount effects units that are mounted into an amp would then be classified with the studio effects; while the external effects boxes on a musician's pedalboard would all be classified together in their own article. --Dulcimerist 20:02, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pedal vs. Unit

There needs to be a distinction between the two; one is very specific, one is very general.

Perhaps Effects Pedals (stomp-boxes) can be a branch of Effects Processors/Units, next to other branches like Multi-Effects Processors? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.217.237 (talk) 05:05, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No merge

I'm taking the merge tag out; it's been there for a half year with no results. Discussions about merging have gone on for two years with no consensus. Over at Effects pedal, they're not even talking about it, and they don't have a merge tag up. Looks like it's time to nail the lid down on this one. Binksternet (talk) 20:45, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merger proposal

I am re-igniting this. We absolutely do not need separate pages for bass effects, guitar effects, effects pedal, and effects unit. I have read the objections and they make no sense from a Wikipedia policy perspective or from the perspective of someone who knows about this subject. I build effects for a living, as well as being a musician who plays several instruments, so I know what I'm talking about here. The bass effects article is just a duplication of the guitar effects article, but with the word "bass" tacked onto the beginning of everything. The fact of the matter is that, while there are effects designed with specific instruments in mind, any instrument can be played into any effects unit. Many, many bass players used guitar effects when no bass-specific effects existed, and continue to do so even now that bass effects do exist. The difference between bass and guitar versions is commonly a couple of capacitor swaps. They are not substantially different from a technological, musicological, or usage standpoint.

With regard to form factors:

There is no rule that rack effects are used in parallel, that pedals are in series, etc. Such conventions may exist but they do not differentiate the effects themselves in any physical way. Pedals can and are run in parallel, and racks in series. While some physical differences exist, like line level vs. instrument level, these differences do not make them an entirely different thing.

I suggest that the article contain sections on:

-effects types (overdrives, fuzz, waveshaping, chorus, etc...) -form factors (rackmount, pedals, tabletop) -instruments that most commonly use effects and which are most commonly used together

Conical Johnson (talk) 04:20, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I performed all of the mergers since there was no opposition for nearly a month. Almost all of the content on effects pedal, guitar effects, and bass effects was a complete duplicate of this page. Any content from any of those pages that wasn't already covered either in this article or in main articles for individual effects was added here. Conical Johnson (talk) 02:09, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] References!

There has been a considerable amount of work done on this article lately, but none of it has been in adding references. Please do not continue to add content from your own personal knowledge. Instead, those of you who have time to work heavily on this article, please get some refs. This will never be a good article when all the content is original research. Having a refimprove tag on a page for 2 years without improvement is really bad. Conical Johnson (talk) 18:45, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Defretter

I made a change to the explanation of a defretter, and I thought I'd explain to prevent edit warring. Firstly, I cleared up the part about harmonics to make it more concrete. There is no portamento in a defretter, because this would be physically impossible. To do this, the effect would have to know the next note you are going to play before you play it, or it would have to delay the output a significant portion of a second, which would make the effect unplayable in real time. No defretter effect does this. It's merely a VCF and VCA controlled by an ADSR, using the instrument's envelope as a trigger. The effect only changes filtering and volume, not pitch. Conical Johnson (talk) 04:21, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

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