Talk:Eight Elders

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Untitled[edit]

How can 8 breathless men were named 8 Immortals？ Really strange. Ksyrie 19:41, 28 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The article states that the term refers to two different groups, but then doesn't distinguish between them. It seems to be about the same group of men that have different names in Chinese and English. The article needs cleanup (and sourcing, since I don't know what's accurate from looking at it). Calbaer 20:12, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No,you are misguided,the Eight Immortals and the Eight Elders are the same group.The Eight Immortals are the invetion by some english-speaking journalist,while Eight Elders are the more official or used name.--Ksyrie 00:04, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bloomberg map[edit]

Bloomberg News made a map of the descendants of the Eight Elders, from which we could derive some kind of neat diagram, or maybe a simple family tree. Or this information could go into Princelings, if that's more appropriate. Shrigley (talk) 03:15, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Is the composition certain?[edit]

From 2003 to 2007 this article listed seven members and stated there was disagreement as to the identity of the eighth.Then somebody picked an eighth and deleted all mention of the alternatives.Do all sources agree on this particular eight?...see for example "Wan Li,Reformer and last of China's Eight Immortals,Dies at 98" (Bloomberg).

I note that Song Ping and Zhang Jingfu have lived longer than any of them,though not been quite as powerful.12.144.5.2 (talk) 01:42, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Membership according to various authors[edit]

Membership according to various authors
No.	LA Times 1992 ^[1]	Tkacik 2004^[2]	SCMP 2008^[3]	Bloomberg 2012^[4]	Andrésy 2015^[5]	Bendini 2016^[6]
1	Deng Xiaoping	Deng Xiaoping	Deng Xiaoping	Deng Xiaoping	Deng Xiaoping
2	Yang Shangkun	Yang Zhangkun	Yang Shangkun	Yang Shangkun	Yang Shangkun
3	Chen Yun	Chen Yun	Chen Yun	Chen Yun	Chen Yun
4	Li Xiannian	Li Xiannian	Li Xiannian	Li Xiannian	Li Xiannian
5	Peng Zhen	Peng Zhen	Peng Zhen	Peng Zhen	Peng Zhen
6	Wang Zhen	Wang Zhen	Wang Zhen	Wang Zhen	Wang Zhen
7	Bo Yibo	Bo Yibo	Bo Yibo	Bo Yibo	Bo Yibo
8	Song Renqiong		Song Renqiong	Song Renqiong
8		Deng Yingchao	Deng Yingchao		Deng Yingchao
Others			Xi Zhongxun			Xi Zhongxun
Others			Wan Li

A line by Vivian Wu in SCMP helps clear up a bit of the membership confusion:^[3]

The membership was never explicitly stated but the group was widely accepted to comprise Deng, Chen Yun , Yang Shangkun , Bo Yibo , Wang Zhen , Peng Zhen , Li Xiannian and Song Renqiong . Deng Yingchao , Xi Zhongxun and Wan Li gradually became part of the inner circle as some of the original members died.

DTM (talk) 08:21, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Holley, David (1992-01-12). "'Eight Elders' Wield Power Behind the Scenes in China". Los Angeles Times. Retrieved 2021-09-18.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
^ Tkacik, John (September 2004). Scobell, Andrew; Wortzel, Larry (eds.). "CIVIL-MILITARY CHANGE IN CHINA: ELITES, INSTITUTES, AND IDEAS AFTER THE 16TH PARTY CONGRESS. Chapter 5: Premier Wen and Vice President Zeng: The "Two Centers" of China's "Fourth Generation"" (PDF). Strategic Studies Institute, U.S. Army War College. Retrieved 18 September 2021.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
^ ^a ^b Wu, Vivian (1 December 2008). "The 'eight immortals' who jockeyed for control of a nation". South China Morning Post. Retrieved 2021-09-18.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
^ "Mapping China's Red Nobility". Bloomberg.com. Graphics: Chloe Whiteaker, Fan Wenxin, Michael Wei, Danny Dougherty and Phil Kuntz. Reporting: Michael Forsythe, Shai Oster, Dune Lawrence, Natasha Khan and Henry Sanderson. Retrieved 2021-09-18.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: others (link)
^ Andrésy, Agnès (2015-11-20). Xi Jinping: Red China, The Next Generation. UPA. p. 142. ISBN 978-0-7618-6601-5.
^ Bendini, Roberto (June 2016). "The Cultural Revolution in China: its 50th anniversary was ignored but its legacy lives on today" (PDF). europarl.europa.eu. Retrieved 18 September 2021.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Yingchao (1963) (cropped).jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:23, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Wan Li.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:53, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Holley, David (1992-01-12). "'Eight Elders' Wield Power Behind the Scenes in China". Los Angeles Times. Retrieved 2021-09-18.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)

[2] Tkacik, John (September 2004). Scobell, Andrew; Wortzel, Larry (eds.). "CIVIL-MILITARY CHANGE IN CHINA: ELITES, INSTITUTES, AND IDEAS AFTER THE 16TH PARTY CONGRESS. Chapter 5: Premier Wen and Vice President Zeng: The "Two Centers" of China's "Fourth Generation"" (PDF). Strategic Studies Institute, U.S. Army War College. Retrieved 18 September 2021.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)

[:Wu-3] Wu, Vivian (1 December 2008). "The 'eight immortals' who jockeyed for control of a nation". South China Morning Post. Retrieved 2021-09-18.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)

[4] "Mapping China's Red Nobility". Bloomberg.com. Graphics: Chloe Whiteaker, Fan Wenxin, Michael Wei, Danny Dougherty and Phil Kuntz. Reporting: Michael Forsythe, Shai Oster, Dune Lawrence, Natasha Khan and Henry Sanderson. Retrieved 2021-09-18.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: others (link)

[5] Andrésy, Agnès (2015-11-20). Xi Jinping: Red China, The Next Generation. UPA. p. 142. ISBN 978-0-7618-6601-5.

[6] Bendini, Roberto (June 2016). "The Cultural Revolution in China: its 50th anniversary was ignored but its legacy lives on today" (PDF). europarl.europa.eu. Retrieved 18 September 2021.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)

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