Talk:Elizabeth Báthory

• "Elizabeth Báthory" Find sources: GBooks · MSBooks · GScholar · MSAcademic · GNews recent · GNews old · NYT recent · NYT old · Wikipedia Reference Search

• "Báthory Erzsébet" Find sources: GBooks · MSBooks · GScholar · MSAcademic · GNews recent · GNews old · NYT recent · NYT old · Wikipedia Reference Search

The descriptions of torture that emerged during the trials were often based on hearsay.

I don't quite get this sentence. There were after all 4 people claiming to have not only seen but also sometimes done it themselves. There was also one surviving victim who claimed she saw and experienced it herself. Isn't that a little more important than witnesses who reported hearsay? It seems to me that this sentence distorts the facts. 91.128.191.82 (talk) 13:29, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

I feel that the legend has been given as fact and now we see Countess Bathory as a seriel killer, when, as 91 says, the evidence was often based on hearsay and not actual proof. Should we not give this woman the dignity of including what actually transpired and not what her infamous legend states? 78.146.132.102 Classics (talk) 17:23, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

There were at least 2 eyewitnesses who saw the Countess and her cohorts in action, one of whom was Benedikt Deseo and the other Jakob Szilvassy. Benedikt supervised the Lords staff at Cachtice and witnessed the Countess herself torturing then murdering a young girl at the castle.Dieblutegraf (talk) 19:46, 22 November 2011 (UTC)Infamous Lady The true story of Countess Erzsebet Bathory Kimberly L. Craft pages 95-100

If she really did bathe in blood, then she would be dirtier than before the bath. Checked with several medical experts at my university and they confirmed that bathing in blood would not have made her youthful, could easily have infected her with blood borne diseases and, as one pointed out, "would have seriously freaked everyone including the Countess herself out". Bathory inherited some sadistic traits from her husband and it would have been normal for her to beat servant girls in order to get high. I very much doubt though that the evidence obtained at the trial was even obtained legally as torture was not an uncommon tactic if you wanted to get the desired verdict. 78.148.78.116 (talk) 23:56, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

convicted / not convicted

In paragraph 2, she and four collaborators were accused and convicted. In the next sentence, she herself was never convicted. No make sense. Johncurrandavis (talk) 14:11, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Accused, certainly, but she didn't go on trial: "While the countess was put under house arrest...The countess'[s] associates however were brought to court".--Old Moonraker (talk) 20:47, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Indeed, but what bothers me more (perversely I daresay!) is that the sentence doesn't make sense! Now, it reads like this: "She and four collaborators were accused of torturing and killing hundreds of girls, with one witness attributing to them over 650 victims, though the number for which they were convicted was 80. Elizabeth herself was neither tried nor convicted." My suggestion - to remove the self-contradictory claim over Bathory being or not being included in the conviction: "She and four collaborators were accused of torturing and killing hundreds of girls, with one witness attributing to them over 650 victims; while Bathory herself was never put on trial, her collaborators were convicted of torturing and killing 80 victims." The only concern I have is, were all 80 victims tortured AND killed? Or were they "tortured and/or killed"?

Johncurrandavis (talk) 12:08, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

I'll be going backwards with this because I feel the last things you said are the ones that are 

most important. All of her victims were killed aside from 1 so it cannot be "tortured and/or killed"

because they were all killed (aside from that pesky 1) the best line I can think of at the moment 

is the original since it's safe to assume they were all tortured because historians and psychologists have come to the conclusion that she was almost certainly a sadist. On to my next issue. Currently it says "with one witness attributing to them over 650 victims" this is incorrect because Thorzo gathered over 200 witness' what the line SHOULD say is "with the only surviving victim attributing to them over 650 victims". Unless of course I'm incorrect and it was a single

witness attributing 650 deaths to her and that the other witness' did not agree that there were 

that many. Oh well it is late I shall be going.

Damn you wiki I can never get those odd boxes out of my text... If when/if you respond you could
tell me how to get rid of those I'd be greatly indebted to you.

• Don't start new paragraphs with a space. Use a colon at the beginning for a single-em indent, two for a double, etc. --Old Moonraker (talk) 08:40, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Now I'm even more in Problem Land with this. The article as written has her convicted in one place and not in another. I can't accept that "it's safe to assume they were all tortured because historians and psychologists have come to the conclusion that she was almost certainly a sadist" - read that back over, it's actually absurd, sorry! Anyway, before looking to phrasing the sentence, maybe it will be best to collate... i) Bathory and four collaborators were accused of torturing and killing hundreds of girls; ii) ... well, actually, I'm lost now for anything more that can reliably be claimed...!!!

Johncurrandavis (talk) 03:40, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

sexual abuse

Benedikt Deseo told court officials how he heard how the wide firing iron was heated, the girls arms arms were "burned to smoke and, ." The smaller, round fire iron was heated," he added,"until very hot and -on my honor!--, shoved it into their vaginas .

I removed this recent addition to the article, because it is sourced from a self-published book, not considered as a reliable source on Wikipedia. More at WP:SPS. --Old Moonraker (talk) 08:12, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Using a screenshot of this page in a feature film about Elizabeth Báthory

Hello,

I'm a filmmaker who has recently completed a horror-satire feature called CHASTITY BITES. I would like to include a screenshot of this Wikipedia page in the film; do any of you know how to go about getting clearance for this? I tried to navigate through the usage section in Wikipedia but the best I could find was that the pages are all under Creative Commons and are free to share -- but this is a little different. I think I'm supposed to get permission from the authors of this page, are you guys still on here and reading comments?

Hope to talk soon,

John Knowles Weirdsmobile Productions http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2145637/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.65.42.4 (talk) 02:31, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

This is no more than an E&OE interim answer, just to break the silence really:

Here a possible starting point. You would need to include in the credits (or somewhere) everyone who has contributed. The text authors are easily accommodated by including just the URL of the article. All the images must be free use, rather than WP:FAIR USE. At the time of posting all qualify, but the individual copyright holders, if any, may need to be acknowledged as well. The Wikipedia logo (top left) is a registered trade mark and the re-use terms are here. The big feature is the page design itself, and the Wikimedia designers should probably also get acknowledgement, to comply with the re-use terms, but I don't know how to do that.

Don't bother to contact the management: "it is useless to email any of our contact addresses for permission to reproduce articles or photographs".

Good luck! --Old Moonraker (talk) 13:18, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Deletions of all references from author Kimberly L. Craft / Infamous Lady the true story of countess erzsebet bathory

Why were all footnotes, references and historical facts were deleted from this article?  Author Craft and her book are the latest, most factual accounts by eyewitnesses themselves...notably those of Benedict Deseo and others, such as noblewoman Anna Zelesthey whose daughter was tortured to the extent that her flesh fell from her bones.

Also, a footnote regarding Anna and her mother who were given land, a house along with some grains and gold for recompense due to Anna's horrendous injuries. A maid whose foot had a knife in it also escaped the Countess and recounted the horrors within castle Csejthe. Such information taken from court records, letters and other similar first hand accounts should be included to maintain the integrity of the true historical accounts rather than legend and conjecture. Whoever took the time to delete such important and relevant information should explain themselves to all and try to justify such idiotic and petty actions when the whole point of this site is to maintain the veracity of truth above all else. Go ahead... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dieblutegraf (talk • contribs) 05:40, 18 February 2012 (UTC)