Talk:Employment

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Need some balance[edit]

This article appears to written from a far too capitalistic paradigm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.171.25.34 (talk) 22:49, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I'll say, the lede reads like it was written by a Chamber of Commerce. It presents a totally In-Universe capitalist perspective as if nothing else existed. See also the contracts thread below. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 16:03, 21 April 2010 (UTC)


I agree I just read the article and found the intro "Employment is a contract between two parties, one being the employer and the other being the employee. Employment opportunity comes directly from investment (including foreign direct investment and investment bank) to gain excessive profit in a Business plan in the capitalist economy." to be very biased and not NPV. There are or have been systems other than capitalism that have created jobs. In addition to which no investment or business plan is necessary for a job to be created. For example a porter does not need an investment to create their own job. Nor do they need a business plan. They simply need to wait around at a place where people are likely to need something to be carried. I don't have the knowledge to rewrite the article well, but I think it is in dire need of a more NPV rewrite. Jtan163 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:20, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Contracts[edit]

In the United States, the standard employment relationship is not a contract and is considered to be at-will meaning that the employer and employee are both free to terminate the employment at any time and for any cause, or for no cause at all.

What's the situation in other countries? Does one get sued or jailed for quitting a job as a stock boy in Mexico City, London, or Bangladesh? If the situation is different elsewhere, it should be explained. If not, the "in the United States" statement should be removed. I'm pretty sure that throughout the free world, the typical laborer can leave employment at will. There are exceptions, of course, but that's why the word "standard" is there. Kafziel Talk 19:52, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Is it really a contract, classical contract theory requires freedom to contract, and equal power position of contracting parties. Doe a person without sufficent money have a real choice about the terms of the contract they enter into????JUBALCAIN 06:30, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes. The theory is that the worker possesses something of value and that it could be "sold" somewhere else if need-be. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 15:12, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
Whatever the common law or commercial code situation, in the United States at least, so-called "full time" or "direct" employment is the anti-thesis of a contract. The employee is absolutely not a contractor and this is the subject matter of the well known 20 questions. The current Lede text is yet another example of a provincial American assumption of the universality of capitalist relations and is diametrically the opposite of the situation in the USA and this should be made clear as in fact it's more or less universally the case. Lycurgus (talk) 16:10, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Noting that there were originally and famously twenty questions, but they seem to have been boiled down to 3. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 10:32, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
See also my comments on Lede Rewrite at Wage labour. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 23:39, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
Depends what you call the free world. In Australia, New Zealand and the EU most employment is not "at will". There are statutory protections for employees and employers, extensive proections against arbitary dismissal by employers, although these protections have been weakened over teh past 20 years or so.
In what I think of as the "free world" the US's "at will" agreements are the exception not the rule.
If you include countires such as Malaysia, Taiwan, India which are technically democracies or republis (but not all that free in reality) then you get "At will" contracts being more the norm. 14.2.18.245 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:22, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Bias?[edit]

"Capitalism allows the marketplace to determine the value of a good or service based on demand, rather than impose a value on a good or service. In a communist environment, the state determines the value a job may have, and may also open or close avenues to those jobs, creating less of a sense of freedom as to who may occupy those jobs.

Socio-psychological concepts of freedom, self-actualization, motivation and aspiration are thus tested in a society where a person is not taught the value of contributing to enterprise. The capitalist system suggests that success is unlimited or directly proportional to how much an individual wants to work at it, while opponents of communism suggest that imposing value takes away the motivation for someone to be better at their job than the next guy who isn't working as hard but the value in what they do is fixed regardless of performance."

This feels like a non-objective viewpoint to me, but I'm not sure... 70.49.75.217 (talk) 22:44, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Merge from Job (role)[edit]

Presently Job (role) is also a start-class article, but it is listed as one of the wp:Vital 100. It seems both cover the same territory rather poorly. I propose a merger, intending that it would focus effort in one place, and in any case it would simplify a messy disambiguation. LeadSongDog come howl! 18:00, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree; merge makes sense.--KarlB (talk) 19:22, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
Same here. (Either that or move Job (role) to Job per WP:PRIME.) benzband (talk) 19:28, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

I favor keeping the articles separate, because the concepts are distinct in an important way, as explained in the introductions to the two articles. Employment is a contract, while job is a social role. The job (role) article, though short, concentrates non-contractual aspects of work, for example self-employment, and on the significance of a job for a person's social status (e.g. getting a first job) and life goals (e.g. "day job"). I like Benzband's suggestion to move the present content of Job (role) to Job, thereby making it a WP:PRIMARY_TOPIC article, with a hatnote to a disambiguation page containing the present content of Job. CharlesHBennett (talk) 19:20, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

  • Oppose merger: The two are distinctly different, it would be better to develop the "job" article further, instead of merging. --Funandtrvl (talk) 19:58, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Additional reference(s)[edit]

http://www.beyondchron.org/news/index.php?itemid=11687

" . . . By the mid-1990s, Los Angeles had become the nation’s capital of low-wage labor and remains so to this day: Twenty-eight percent of full-time workers in L.A. County make less than $25,000 a year. In Chicago, only 19 percent of workers earn so little. . . "

I think this has some interesting material. Now, this article does seem to have a viewpoint, but I don't think we should exclude it for that reason. FriendlyRiverOtter (talk) 18:26, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Added Info[edit]

Dear Editor,

I've been working on a page gearing specifically to employment and disabilities, I think I have some information to expand on the employment relations section, specifically on the topic of socialization. Link to page employment (disabilities). Since a page on topic already exist, the page I had created breaks on the laws of disambiguation. Trying to find a home for good researched information. Any suggestions on what to do with information, comment on the page's talk page. Thanks.

--KierraA. (talk) 03:36, 11 May 2014 (UTC)