Talk:Encyclopedia Dramatica

How is encyclopaediadramatica.ch a different site?

The same content that was at encyclopaediadramatica.com has been moved to .ch. It's obviously the same site, with the same userbase, same logo, same damned name. The source I cited said as much. I'm reverting it, do not put it back unless you have a good rationale for why .ch is a different site, in defiance of the source cited. Quantum Burrito (talk) 21:55, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

...and with an entirely different staff and URL. The situation is not as easy as you make it out to be. Technically speaking, ED.ch remains a fork, not a relaunch or a rename of the original site, so treating it as such is problematic. On the other hand, ED.ch does seem to establish itself as the new ED, and I see no ideal way to deal with this situation. Wait and see, I guess. --Conti|✉ 22:21, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

could it be stated that ed.ch is a wiki based on the .com site as it existed in the google cache as of that date? -badmachine 02:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

I wouldn't have any objections to that. --Conti|✉ 09:03, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Any site can brand itself as being another site and copy that other site's content. But if it has an entirely different group of people in charge of it, then it is not the same site. The ED URL redirects to Oh Internet now. If we were going to follow the normal process, then we would actually make this article be Oh Internet, since that is what ED is right now. But we discussed and reached a consensus that Oh Internet and ED.ch are different sites from the original ED and should be treated separately, but related, which is why they each have a section in this article. Silverseren^C 22:35, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

So if wikipedia.org started redirecting to encyclopediadramatica.ch, by the normal process you'd "make the Wikipedia article be encyclopedia drammatica"? Robomc (talk) 11:11, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Quantum, certain people here hold grudges against ed.ch because they are the subject of disparaging articles hosted there. There is no sound policy or guideline-based reason to revert the change you made, only a tired variation of WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Tarc (talk) 04:16, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

I stated the same thing before H64 ever made an article on me. I can't speak for Conti, but my position has not changed because of the article made on me (since the article was created in response to my position anyway). Silverseren^C 04:43, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

The site as created and owned by Sherrod DeGrippo no longer exists. What happened was that ED went off in two different directions, Oh Internet and ed.ch. The infobox is correct in saying that the original ed.com no longer exists, and consistency with the sourcing requires the article to recognize this.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:15, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Except that the title of the article isn't "encyclopediadramatica.com", it's "Encyclopedia Dramatica". You can argue about site ownership and the semantics of what makes one site the same as or different from another site all day, but it doesn't change the fact that there's a website named "Encylopedia Dramatica" that is active and has the same content and user base as the old one. If we want the article to be exclusively about encyclopediadramatica.com, then we should change the title of the article to reflect that. Otherwise, the article should acknowledge that, regardless of whether or not it is technically the same entity as the original site by that name, there is an active, current site called Encyclopedia Dramatica. The current version of the article does not make that sufficiently clear. zorblek (talk) 02:52, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

The article very clearly, specifically states, both in the infobox and in the lede, that it is specifically about a website, the former website called Encyclopedia Dramatica that is now defunct. It also mentions the two websites that sprouted from its demise in their own sections. There is nothing to clarify. Just because one of the later websites chose the same name doesn't mean we have to change anything. ED.ch is already discussed in the article. Silverseren^C 03:20, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

The content is copied directly from ed.com. There is no difference, other than the obvious wiki editing. Therefore, the infobox should be fixed to say so.--Adm.Hammerhead (talk) 00:53, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Some content was illegally copied, yes, but that doesn't change that it is a different site. We've had this discussion before. Just because you copy things from another site doesn't mean that you are the other site. All of the Wikipedia mirrors that copy content from here aren't Wikipedia, they are different sites. Silverseren^C 01:11, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Ukrainian ED

I I just leave it here http://dramatica.org.ua/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.24.72.14 (talk) 20:15, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

What does this have to do with this article? Silverseren^C 04:40, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Not a great deal, although it is interesting that there is a Ukrainian language clone of the site. Here is their page for "Drama" (SFW), but contrary to expectations, there is no article about "3Guys1Hammer" (Dnepropetrovsk maniacs) even though it happened in Ukraine.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:05, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

-lol that's actually really funnyNex Carnifex (talk) 17:29, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

ukwiki seems to have a history of people inserting links to "dramatica.org.ua" and "uchan.org.ua/w/":

Date, time	Article	Revision	Link(s) inserted	Link(s) removed
2010-07-31, 09:11	Encyclopedia Dramatica	[1]	drаmatica.org.ua
2010-07-31, 14:19	MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist	[2]	drаmatica.org.ua
2010-08-03, 14:02	Encyclopedia Dramatica	[3]		dramatica.org.ua
2010-09-14, 04:22	Encyclopedia Dramatica	[4]	dram atica.org.ua
2010-11-27, 17:52	Encyclopedia Dramatica	[5]		dram atica.org.ua
2011-03-11, 08:55	Вікі	[6]	drаmatica.org.ua
2011-07-31, 18:30	Вікі	[7]	ukrmemoria.com/Драматика	drаmatica.org.ua
2011-08-15, 14:57	Учан (вебсайт)	[8]	dram atica.org.ua/Учан	ukrmemoria.com/Учан
2011-09-14, 17:59	Вікі	[9]	uchan.org.ua/w	ukrmemoria.com/Драматика
2011-10-01, 10:45	Encyclopedia Dramatica	[10]	uchan.org.ua/w
2011-10-18, 22:53	Вікія	[11]	uchan.org.ua/w
2011-11-27, 12:47	Учан (вебсайт)	[12]	uchan.org.ua/w/Учан	dram atica.org.ua/Учан

dramatica.org.ua is unaffiliated with encyclopediadramatica.com and encyclopediadramatica.ch (dramatica.org.ua predates encyclopediadramatica.ch). Unlike encyclopediadramatica.ch, damatica.org.au isn't a fork. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 15:34, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Neutral point of view?

DeGrippo eventually became disillusioned with Encyclopædia Dramatica.

Is it just me, or does that line on the article compromises Wikipedia's neutral point of view? --Karjam (talk) 14:56, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Not really, as her views on the subject were expressed at ROFLcon in October 2011.[13].--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 15:34, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Might want to put it in quotes though, if that's specifically what she said. Silverseren^C 19:29, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

yeah wording it that way implies that there was indeed some negative aspect of ED that caused Sherrod to shut it down, but that's only if you take her word for it. Nex Carnifex (talk) 17:35, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Who killed Encyclopedia Dramatica ??

This is a well researched article highlighting that the conclusions in this article and its adherence to the DeGrippo version of events is a major distortion of the truth and potentially POV-pushing.

http://www.techtangerine.com/2011/05/09/who-killed-encyclopaedia-dramatica/

Interestingly and I wouldn't be bothering with this at all, save for this very interesting fact is that the author has discovered that a cabal of mods from the ED site had already established user names at the new OH Internet site months before it was launched.

The article concludes, and IMO I agree, that "the demise of Encyclopaedia Dramatica was not the single-handed doing of Sherrod DeGrippo/girlvinyl. Secondly, profitability or financial constraints may have not been at issue." Therefore a conclusion that smacks in the face of propaganda/misinformation found in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.155.66.199 (talk) 17:12, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Besides the obvious (we don't use blogs as sources, usually), the article very longwindedly claims that a) financial problems were probably not the only reason for the shutdown of ED and b) it wasn't just DeGrippo shutting down ED, but DeGrippo a group of people close to her. Well.. Duh. :) --Conti|✉ 18:28, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't think there's any sort of conspiracy in regards to this. DeGrippo has stated before that her reason for closing down ED was because of the way the community had gone, which she disliked, because it was more about perpetuating stupid memes rather than why she made it in the first place (or something like that? I think she explains in the ROFLcon video. I haven't watched it.) And the fact that other admins and mods were involved wasn't a secret at all. They've all stated as much. Read the Oh Internet section of this article, it already says this. Silverseren^C 19:29, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

techtanerine.com is an blog without any editorial oversight. The author Hamad Subani (apparently the only author of that infrequently updated blog) obviously doesn't understand how the "Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivs 2.5 License" works. He's basically saying that we can't make derivations of images that are painstakingly derivatives (of non-free images) themselves. techtanerine.com is also run by the same people who run cabaltimes.com. A person working on those sites could publish whatever the hell they want without any fact-checking. Their legal disclaimer also makes it clear that they aren't responsible for what happens after an article is published:

3211721 Nova Scotia Ltd. shall not in anyway be held responsible for the damages you incurred through the use of this website. Under no circumstances shall 3211721 Nova Scotia Ltd., website administrators, editors, contributors, or any of their respective partners, officers, directors, employees, agents, associates or representatives be liable for any damages, whether direct, indirect, special or consequential damages for lost revenues, lost profits, or otherwise, arising from or in connection with this website, the materials contained herein, or the Internet generally. We makes no, and expressly disclaims any, representations or warranties, express or implied, regarding the Website, including, without limitation, any implied warranties of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose. We make no, and expressly disclaim any, warranties, express or implied, regarding the correctness, accuracy, completeness, timeliness, and reliability of the text, graphics, links to other sites and any other items accessed from or via this Website or the Internet, or any other material. or that the services will be uninterrupted, error-free or free of viruses or other harmful components. If the jurisdiction does not allow the liability limitations described earlier, this website shall only be liable for the amount you paid to access this website.

This lack of responsibility means that they don't have any incentive to be accurate. 3211721 Nova Scotia Ltd. basically say, "Here's a website for you guys. You can do whatever the fuck you want because it won't do any harm to us." 3211721 Nova Scotia Ltd. doesn't provide any editorial advice or oversight. techtanerine.com is a tabloid. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 21:45, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

"Who killed Encyclopedia Dramatica ??" this article hints that Daniel Brandt was at fault, which I'm sure is the answer most of those involved with ED would tell you if you were to ask directly. Itgetsworse (talk) 20:39, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Latest addition

Since a request was made to discuss the issue of this edit..

1. It's simply not noteworthy. ED trolls people all the time, and some of those respond in kind. Tadaa. No need for a specific example, unless it's particularly notable. Which leads me to..
2. No reliable sources. The source itself says "This submission is currently being researched & evaluated!", so that alone is reason enough not to use it. As a community driven site, knowyourmeme.com should (as awesome as it is) not be used in Wikipedia as a source in general.
3. WP:BLP. If that guy wants to be left alone, it's not our job to point a finger at him.

So, there you go, User:Mythic Writerlord. Discuss. --Conti|✉ 16:30, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

People featured on the site

There are many people featured on ED, often against their will. Some have been singled out, harrassed and openly ridiculed. Is it not a good idea to name one or two of these cases (if they can be properly sourced) to highlight this controversy. It could possibly be regarded as libel in some cases. I keep mentioning one case but another editor seems helbend on removing it and unwilling to discuss this further. Mythic Writerlord (talk) 16:32, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

This comes back to the issue of reliable sourcing. It would need some sourcing to establish the notability.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:33, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

KnowYourMeme is not a reliable source for the information. It is a user-created website, much like a wiki. The only thing reliable from the site is, occasionally, the official staff videos on memes. Silverseren^C 21:11, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Attempts to repeat or extend the harassment from ED to ED's Wikipedia article will only end in tears. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 21:36, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Article Outdated - Requires Re-write

Encyclopedia Dramatica has now fallen under new management and is once again live. The pages would appear to have been recovered through site caching services. Please make this known in the article, or (althought this would be unwise) unlock the article. 80.42.175.166 (talk) 02:22, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

There is already a section in the article about ED.ch, this is already covered. Silverseren^C 04:37, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

This article is only semi-locked though :I That said, taking off that would cause the whole article to go to hell, really. ED.ch has a section in the article, and so long as the original domain redirects to OhI, then ED is considered as down and gone. /twocents HerroLink 03:34, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

No WP editors you are wrong...ED is a meme not a distinct thing. It is true to say the founding site is now defunct but the new site, ED.ch is up and running and when that fails no doubt there will be many more EDs that will continue to digitally archive the dark side of the human condition. The ludicrous logic, demonstrated by the one-dimensional thinkers who bother to "protect" this page, is akin to asserting that once the original (sic first) railroad became defunct any or all subsequent copies of the same idea/principle (i.e. meme) should also be referred to in the past tense, thus ignoring the scale of the ownership = Anonymous. SweatyCat or whoever she was started it, but she lost control and therefore shut herself out. ED did not close when the original site shut. As my point above notes.

ED is a concept not a thing, it's a repository, like the trope Room 101 where all taboos are spared no pisstaking. It is bigger than it's original site and will probably keep on growing ad infinitum as long as there are denizens out there in cyberspace who believe in its anarchic concept. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.150.225.126 (talk) 23:56, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Go ahead and find a reliable source that says ED is a meme/concept and not a website, then. :) --Conti|✉ 00:27, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure every single reliable source we have defines ED as a website, because that's what it is. It's not something ephemeral like a concept, it's a specific website, which this article specifically covers as a website. Silverseren^C 00:48, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Hahahahahaha ED is so right about you lot. How on earth did we ever leave the stone age when logic like this is demonstrated:

every single reliable source we have defines ED as a website

That was because it needs a website to exist, derrrrr. But when the first website closed another one started, and then another, and another et al. Now it is ED.ch, this is because it is an idea. A principle. If it were just a single thing, to use knuckledragger logic, then when the original ED finished the whole concept dies too. It went poof, vanished into the digital ether. But it did not because ED is Anonymous, the front end portal for the insatiable and mawkish need for human disturbia on the Internet. Just because the website changed its address does not mean the meme within Anonymous has changed. In fact by attempting to kill it, the meme has become even stronger judging by ED.ch. Hahhaha then the other Cunti said:

Go ahead and find a reliable source that says ED is a meme/concept and not a website, then

Rather than rebut the point, that ED is an idea and therefore not dependant on any original site. The Rules lawyer creates a Red herring rather than accept the preposition "ED is an internet phenomenon". ED is an idea for taking the piss out of all internet sites/memes/stories, such as the likes of Wikipedia. As long as people believe in ED, it will be. As noted above, when the first railroad closed we should refer to all other railroads in the past tense because only the first ever railroad was the original mass transit system, er the rest are just copies, right? Get back to me when your IQs hit three figures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.161.148.11 (talk • contribs) 17:09, 24 December 2011

We will. In the meantime, get back to us when reliable sources surface that support your assertions. :) You're free to dislike and disagree with the rules around here as much as you please, but if you want to contribute, you have to play by them. --Conti|✉ 19:53, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

There is no doubt that they have the same content. However, those news sources have generally referred to ED.ch as a(n unofficial) fork. Look at the categories of the article, they all refer to a website, not a concept. It's an article about ED.com, not the concept of ED. --♣thayora♣ 03:58, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

^What Thayo noted. If at some point ED.ch and/or OhI need their own space for an article, then I'm pretty sure someone will create said article; however, this article is about the original ED, thus everything is fine as is ~_~ HerroLink 01:44, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

ED was and still is user-generated-content contributed by a specific user base (generally of the /b/ variety). If ED were any other wiki, this would not even be up for debate. Let's pretend that ED was not a controversial wiki for the moment. Pretend it was a wiki for beer and wine connoisseurs. Then pretend that for whatever reason, the icanhascheezburger folks came up with a ripoff of it using their own style in a watered-down way. Pretend that the beer and wine wiki sold out to a third party and became a ripoff of the icanhascheezburger ripoff and was called Oh Alcohol or whatever. Finally, pretend that the user base who made the beer and wine wiki what it was revived it from a cache and have not only maintained it for several months since, they've made it even larger than it ever was. Would anybody in this comments section even be having this debate? Are the editors only in disagreement and selectively enforcing rules to carry out a biased agenda? That couldn't possibly happen here, could it? Prior to ED.com's sellout to a third party it began to censor certain articles other third parties didn't like. Now, it isn't a stretch to assume that those same offended parties may (or may not, this is purely speculation) have a vested interest in making sure this fork is distanced from the original as a method of trying to 'kill it' so to speak. Maybe they even contribute donations here in order to influence editor opinion. This is how it works in Washington after all, big lobbies paying big box to ensure agendas are steered a specific way. I hope I don't need a citation for that, at least not here in the comments section. I'm pretty sure you understand the point.

The only reason this is up for debate in the first place is because ED was controversial and people are still trying to kill it. The article makes it sound as though ED.ch is dead which is absolutely not the case, it is very much out of date... deliberately. Well the article may very well be within the scope of Wikipedia's rules, like every other controversial article those rules are enforced on a basis of double standards. This isn't rude, this is the truth. You don't need a reliable source to figure that out. Just look at the history of the I/P articles if you don't believe it. The above "People featured on the site" section's comment from Delicious carbuncle says "Attempts to repeat or extend the harassment from ED to ED's Wikipedia article will only end in tears." If ED is dead, how can they harass the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.14.223.95 (talk) 07:08, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

The site still exists. new URL is http(colon)(slash)(Slash)encyclopediadramatica(dot)ch — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.227.157.196 (talk) 07:08, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh Internet

I think Oh Internet is worthy of its own article. I can't say the same for ED.ch, however. --JohnnyLurg (talk) 02:50, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

It should be noted that the above user has proclaimed himself to be a "prolific troll" whose activities include sending in threats to ED admins/users in the name of Ohi (which I'm sure would not approve of his actions). Itgetsworse (talk) 20:37, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

You've got the wrong Lurg. --JohnnyLurg (talk) 05:42, 27 January 2012 (UTC)