Talk:Kokkina exclave
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[edit] Comment
This article was written because very little information pertaining to this siege is available. It shows the TC's resistance against the GC's in a different light than what is usually put out by the oh-so-efficient GC propaganda machine.
The correct name is Kokkina. Stop changing the names.
The correct name isn't Kokaina. Erenköy belongs to North Cyprus and we can give the name to our city Erenköy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.103.119.133 (talk) 19:58, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Totally disputed
This article now has a disputed marker because of the following: 1:It refers to an event by presenting the writer's POV and does not state different opinions or the fact that other POVs exist. 2:It is written by one particular user without consultation or review by others. 3:It is not neutrally worded or encyclopedic in nature. 4:No references cited at all.--Jsone 11:24, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
References are books,articles,websites, or quotes.A list of names is not a reference.
Concerning the links you have posted: 1:"Erenköy Confrontation" This is taken from a "TRNC" website.Independent sources are needed to to prove a disputed point.This is POV. 2:"BBC article on the siege".
"The air raids were in response to vicious fighting which has been raging for the last three days around the Turkish Cypriot village of Kokkina.
A UN spokesman said that Turkish Cypriots had lost all villages in the area apart from Kokkina to the Greek Cypriots.
Now, he said, there were 200 women and children still in Kokkina and refusing to be moved to safety by the UN. "
This has minimal information about the event itself.
3:"Aftermath of the Siege"This deals with events following the siege, and doesn't contain any of the info the article here has.However,this excerpt from the same source (in the previous page [1]) has info that should be added to this article.
"The Cyprus Government was becoming increasingly concerned about the Tylliria Region, not only because of Turk-Cypriot road blocks on the coastal highway, but because it was now convinced that large numbers of weapons and men were being smuggled into the island from Turkey through the beaches at Kokkina. In fact, about 500 Turk-Cypriot youths who were studying in Turkey had received some military training and had been landed at Kokkina. However, Greek-Cypriot roadblocks prevented these reinforcements from leaving the area.
On 6 August, National Guard and Greek Army units attacked Turk-Cypriot villages around Kokkina. Turk-Cypriot civilians and Fighters were forced to retreat into a narrow beachhead and were subjected to an intense artillery bombardment. On 7 August, Turkish aircraft had over-flown the battle-zone and fired their weapons out to sea as a show of strength to reinforce a Turkish ultimatum to stop the attack. On 8 August, Turkish jets attacked National Guard and Greek troops in the Tylliria region. UNFICYP was unable to negotiate a cease-fire. President Makarios announced that if Turkish air attacks were again carried out, he would order an attack on every Turkish-Cypriot village and quarter in Cyprus. Despite this threat, it is probable that Turkey would have continued its air attacks, or would have even launched an invasion, if the Cyprus Government had not heeded the Security Council's resolution for a cease-fire on 9 August. The cease- fire was in effect by 10 August and UNFICYP established observation posts around Kokkina and Limnitis.
Official casualty figures issued by the Cyprus Government show that 55 Greek-Cypriots were killed and 125 were wounded. Almost all these casualties were due to the air attacks. Of these casualties, it was reported that 28 dead and 56 wounded were civilians. Any casualties among Greek Army officers and men involved in the offensive were not disclosed. Ten Turk-Cypriots were killed.
The Tylliria offensive showed that Turkey was indeed committed to military intervention in Cyprus if the Greek-Cypriot community continued to pursue enosis by force of arms. In the light of this, President Makarios decided that the struggle would be continued by political and economic means. General Grivas, for his part, decided that the lesson of the Tylliria battle was not that a military solution to enosis must be eschewed, but rather that Greek and Greek-Cypriot forces must be better prepared for an inevitable future confrontation with the Turks."--Jsone 06:38, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- Oh, shut up. Handle your own atrocities then wave a finger at Turks.--Kagan the Barbarian 21:30, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] My References for this article
- British Columnist David Carter
- Cyprus Today Magazine
- Los Angeles Hon. Representative for the TRNC
- Bayrak Radio and Television Corporation
Besides my comments on references above this article has the following major problems: 1:Total POV imbalance.Please read and understand the following:[[2]]There is no representation of the Greek Cypriot side of the story.Furthermore, all of the references you cite cannot be considered neutral (except David Carter, whom I know nothing about). 2:Emotional neutrality.Wikipedia is an encyclopedia.It deals with facts or ,when they are unclear, Points of View.Expression of emotion or opinion on behalf of the writer are irrelevant.Parts of this text, and especially the "Today" section are very problematic in this respect. 3:The point of an encyclopedia is to inform it's users.It is not a soapbox to express opinions, express claims or praise/accuse, which is what this article does in many ways.This article, the way you 've linked it to pretty much everything relevant to Cyprus, the relevant comment you've left on the exclave page, where it is totally irrelevant, and the following messages in your talk page:
""E.A., On a TRNC news site, I just read about the 1964 siege of Erenköy, and this stuff is dynamite! I put it on Wikipedia. It's an excellent example of Greek Cypriot attempts to subjugate the Turkish Cypriot minority and the resistance exibited by the Turkish Cypriots. My hat is off to those brave defenders. Expatkiwi 19:04, 3 June 2005
E.A., I had the first burn about the article. An anonymous reader told me that the proper name of the site is Kokkina and that I was not to change names at all. Well, too bad. The Hon. Representative for the TRNC in Los Angeles told me that he had family members who had defended Erenköy at the 1964 siege. I'm not going to disgrace those who defended and died there. The deaths of those who defended that town deserve to be acknowledged and honored. I'm proud of what I have written. Expatkiwi 23:10, 5 June 2005""
show total disregard for wikipedia's mission and principles.--Jsone42 19:25, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Okay, Jsone42. First, I don't appreciate you pulling up my personal messages (between myself and E.A.). Secondly, The site is always open for editing. The neat thing about Wikipedia is that anyone can edit or add a site. The fact that it has been edited to add more of the GC side of the argument attests to this. You may not have been aware, but earlier, there has been some nasty pro GC edits and new entries recently made in Wikipedia. I saw this reference as a balance. Admittedly, I am pro-TRNC, but I try to be as factual as possible in my entries. .--Expatkiwi 21:05, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
1:I'm aware that anyone can edit at any time.I thought it would be good to discuss changes before they are made, so that we can avoid any possibility of an edit war. 2:Messages in talk pages aren't supposed to be personal.That's why they are open for everyone and not code locked or restricted to groups. 3:Anyway, I think we can remove the "disputed" tag for now.However, I'm adding this page to Wikipedia:Pages needing attention because it needs review by someone with thorough knowledge of the events in Cyprus. --Jsone 22:53, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Members of my family lived in the Kokkina enclave. They retreated there from the village of Aytotoro, where they had lived for generations. They lost land and property. In Kokkina/Erenkoy that spent many months living in caves, because of greek bombardments. The Turkish Cypriot Enclaves are an overlooked but important part of the Cyprus conflict--Son of the Tundra 02:47, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] UNFanatic's vital editing
I don't know how others missed it but it sure couldn't get away from UNFanatic's super-human observation skills. He changed all the "Erenköy/Kokkina"s in the article to "Kokkina/Erenköy". Thanks for clearing that out fellow Greek, another battle won for GCs perhaps?--Kagan the Barbarian 21:40, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Erenköy
The place was mostly inhabited by Turks even before the Republic of Cyprus. Currently it is a part of TRNC. So its Turkish name must be used primarily and the article must be redirected to Erenköy exclave.--Hattusili 16:43, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] NorthernCyprusMap.jpg
Let it be said that I am no expert on this issue at all, so the point of view here is one of the uninitiated. The image NorthernCyprusMap.jpg shown near the top of the article appears to be fairly imprecise, badly designed (a lot of white space) and also has a Northern Cyprus flag on it for some reason that I'm not sure of. Is it possible to get a map that looks more like Wikipedia standard, and with the inclusion of a flag justified, or it removed? Nach0king (talk) 17:27, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
