Talk:Evan Bayh

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Biography / Politics and Government (Rated B-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the politics and government work group.
 
WikiProject U.S. Congress (Rated B-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject U.S. Congress, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the United States Congress on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
 
This article has not yet been assigned a subject.
The options are: "Person", "People", "Place", "Thing", and "Events."
WikiProject United States / Indiana / Governors / Presidential elections (Rated B-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Indiana (marked as High-importance).
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject U.S. governors (marked as Low-importance).
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject U.S. presidential elections (marked as Low-importance).
 
WikiProject Virginia / Albemarle County  (Rated B-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Virginia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Virginia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Albemarle County (marked as High-importance).
 

Vice presidential speculation -- the day after someone else was chosen[edit]

I deleted two sentences added today. The first said "he was rumored to be among the [finalists]". As I understand policy statements, WP is uninterested in repeating reports of rumors. The second sentence said "Indeed, media outlets reported he had been selected". This is a doubly false statement: it was one TV station in Kansas City, and they did NOT report Bayh's SELECTION! OverEAger! :) They reported a private business had printed bumper stickers. How come it didn't [[occur to other people that maybe the company printed three different bumper stickers, each with a different running mate prospect, just so as to be ready the instant Obama made the announcement? Anyway, there never was a report that some Democratic insider had divulged that Bayh h]]ad been chosen. I have a third objection to Brewcrewer's edit: the edit summary claim that being a strong prospect for running mate is an important part of his career. On the contrary, in my opinion. The information that you were once a presidential running mate prospect is, from the moment the selection is announced, as useful as used toilet paper. I'm repeating myself from weeks ago, but a politician is not going to include in their self promotion that they were a VP prospect. The only genuine use I can see is kind of negative: if you were a strong prospect, then you got thoroughly "vetted", and if you came up clean, then in another four years that MIGHT give you a head start on being a VP prospect anew. That's not my view. Politicians don't campaign to be running mate, and being free of scandal is not the big reason for choosing someone for your running mate. Hurmata (talk) 03:51, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

As I understand policy statements, WP is uninterested in repeating reports of rumors.
There's no policy against rumors. If the rumors are notable and sourced they belong just like other notable rumors.
The second sentence said "Indeed, media outlets reported he had been selected". This is a doubly false statement: it was one TV station in Kansas City, and they did NOT report Bayh's SELECTION!
Other media outlets did report it. They reported what the TV station in Kansas City reported. Whether all the media sources were all basing their reporting on one source does not make a difference. At the end of the day, multiple reliable sources reported on the "selection".
They reported a private business had printed bumper stickers. How come it didn't occur to other people that maybe the company printed three different bumper stickers, each with a different running mate prospect, just so as to be ready the instant Obama made the announcement? Anyway, there never was a report that some Democratic insider had divulged that Bayh had been chosen.
You are obviously pretty smart and were not fooled by the bumper stickers. However, the media sources did report that he has been selected.
a politician is not going to include in their self promotion that they were a VP prospect
Of course they won't. Therefore, at the risk of not being WP:NPOV it must be included in the article. A person's Wikipedia entry should include all the notable events of his lifetime, and it should never depend on whether he puts that event on his resume. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 04:32, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
  • According to your logic, Wikipedia condones you inserting in Wikipedia, "Bill Clinton died July 10, 2008" if Fox News reported it, AND leaving it at that. You think it's the WP community's responsibility to clean up after you with a followup edit: "30 minutes after reporting that Bill Clinton died July 10, 2008, Fox News issued a retraction". My view is different: it is unacceptable for you to insert "Obama selected Bayh[footnote--hey, an RS said it]" since the whole country knows he chose Biden. IF the mere fact that one or more RS's erroneously reported this falsehood, then you would still be duty bound to add, "Obama did not choose Bayh, he chose Biden[footnote--RS]". But you did not even cite an RS to back up your claim. Instead, you are deliberately confusing "some printshop published bumper stickers" with "Obama selected X as a running mate".
  • You like to cite WP:BLP (that's an observation based on multiple articles). So, one of its rationales is to keep WP out of the business of propagating rumors. You contradict BLP by maintaining that ANY rumor is rendered notable as soon as it appears in a single RS. Hurmata (talk) 19:55, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Exactly! If Fox News reports that Bill Clinton died and then retracted half-hour later, not only would it be included in the Bill Clinton article, there would be a separate article entitled Fox News announcing Bill Clinton death controversy. WP:BLP only limits rumors that are not covered in reliable sources. I have never claimed otherwise. Moreover, in this case, we are not really dealing with a rumor (where the truth is an issue). The very fact that there was a rumor, itself a notable event. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 20:21, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Brewcrewer keeps inserting the same passage basing himself on the same news article, when the citation does not contain any of the text Brewcrewer is inserting into this article. Two other users, me and Slipperyweasel, have deleted this passage, which is:

Indeed, the day before Obama chose his running mate, media outlets reported that he had chosen Bayh. [1]

The citation actually contains a statement to the opposite effect: "On Friday night, The Associated Press reported that Bayh was not the candidate." "WAS NOT". The headline of the earlier version of the TV station "report" -- which Brewcrewer originally linked to, but the link he uses goes elsewhere now -- shows that the article is not a report, it's an opinion: that headline is "Bumper Sticker Fuels Speculation About Obama's Veep". (Apparently, Brewcrewer has been so swept up in his edit warring as not to notice the TV station has revised its report and backtracked.) The policy, WP:RS does not extend to ephemeral speculations. It refers to claims of material events, such as "a prosecutor is investigating X" or "bumper stickers saying XYZ were printed". That earlier version did not report that Obama chose Bayh, it only reported that bumper stickers saying Obama - Bayh were being printed in Kansas City. Time to give up the obsession: Obama's running mate is Joseph Biden, not Evan Bayh. Hurmata (talk) 20:52, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

As an outside opinion, it does seem that the statement is not supported by the reference at all, and I have removed it again. Kevin (talk) 11:06, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Father in opening graph[edit]

Seems odd that the fact he is second generation Senator for Indiana is not mentioned in the opening paragraph, which is rather skimpy to begin with. Lord knows too many opening graphs are ridiculous (check out the Transformers movie one for an example), but I am of the belief that an opening of any article should be both informative and have just enough interesting aspects of the subject to invite further reading. 24.24.244.132 (talk) 18:40, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

"Turncoat" in lead[edit]

I removed the sentence that referred to Bayh as a "turncoat" in the lead for several reasons. First, WP:LEAD says the lead should be a concise summary of the article and contain nothing that is not expanded on in the article - this statement is not in the body of the article at all. Second, with its placement in the lead I beleive it give it undue weight, the way it was statement may be a violation of WP:BLP, which should be discussed here first. And finally, although some Democrats may say that, and equal number of Democrats and Republicans would probably disagree, and all that needs to also be laid out, rather than just a blanket statement. Charles Edward (Talk) 02:02, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Retirement announcement[edit]

I have moved the retirement announcement out of the lede; it doesn't belong there. I also reworded the lede slightly, because he is still a senator until his term ends in January 2011. I moved the stuff that was in the lede to the already-existing "Retirement" section, using it to replace speculation and a twitter link (never a reliable source). Horologium (talk) 17:04, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

I disagree. Most articles about notable politicians and other notable people indicate impending major events, such as retirements, in the lede. It is perfectly appropriate. In fact, it is such an important detail that I feel the lede is incomplete without it. Ithizar (talk) 17:34, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Fox News contributor - "Fox News Sunday Panelist"[edit]

At the Fox News Sunday website for today (May 22, 2011) he joins the panel -- he has been a contributor on a stated basis since March this year and he also was a contributor on the New Zealand earthquake destruction from Feb. 2011. He and his wife were travelling in the area on the days of the quake -- http://video.foxnews.com/v/4554819/ Should more in the WIKI article reflect how he is managing his retirement from the U.S. Senate, presumably to "spend more time with his family" Timothyjshaw (talk) 12:49, 22 May 2011 (UTC)timothyjshaw

  1. ^ "Bumper Sticker Could Indicate Bayh Is Obama's Veep". KMBC News. 2008-08-22.