Talk:FA Cup Final

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Bastard referee[edit]

Can anyone come up with info on the referees for the final?

I seem to recall that one of them had the surname Bastard (seriously!) in the 1890s, a fact that I've failed to validate online...

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.17.147.181 (talkcontribs)

Look at the soccerbase external link. The page has an archive which will show you there wasn't a Bastard in the black in the 1890s finals.
Slumgum | yap | stalk | 23:38, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I've found a source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segar_Bastard

the 1st starting 15 teams in 1871[edit]

im trying to find out who was the 1st 15 teams to play in a FA Cup competition could u please help lol
thanks
phil
(email address removed)


If you'd checked the soccerbase site in the external links section, then you may have discovered that there's no real answer for your question. In 1871, 12 clubs took part in the first FA Cup:

  • Barnes
  • Civil Service
  • Clapham Rovers
  • Crystal Palace (Old)
  • Hampstead Heath
  • Hitchin
  • Maidenhead (old)
  • Marlow
  • Queen's Park (Glasgow)
  • Royal Engineers
  • Upton Park
  • Wanderers

Then in the following year, 5 more clubs entered:

  • Oxford University
  • South Norwood
    • 1st Surrey Rifles
    • Reigate Priory
    • Windsor Home Park

However, the last three played their first match a week later than the others. That gives you the first 14 teams, and 3 contenders to be the 15th. If you are doing a quiz, and you are definitely looking for fifteen, perhaps 1st Surrey Rifles is the 15th. This is because they played against 1871 entrants Upton Park in their first match, which could have kicked off earlier than the match between newcomers Reigate Priory vs Windsor Home Park.

It's a rather 'involving' question for a quiz, so I hope it is 15 that you're looking for, and that this info is helpful.
Slumgum | yap | stalk | 21:44, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Er.. see http://www.thefa.com/TheFACup/TheFACup/NewsAndFeatures/Postings/2006/01/FACup_Firstmatches.htm
Wanderers v Harrow Chequers
Clapham Rovers v Upton Park
Crystal Palace v Hitchin
Maidenhead v Marlow
Royal Engineers v Reigate Priory
Barnes v Civil Service
Queens Park (Glasgow) v Donington School (Spalding)

Hampstead Heathens had a bye.

Jooler 21:46, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Soccerbase is missing two first round matches. RSSSF - has the full results. http://www.rsssf.com/tablese/engcup1872.html Jooler 22:03, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
On RSSF the Queen's Park v Donington School is shown as a second round match with both team receving a bye in the first round and Queens Park subsequently receiving a bye in the 3rd round. Jooler 22:08, 27 May 2006 (UTC)


That explains a lot. The other external link has similar data to soccerbase. Good work.
Slumgum | yap | stalk | 23:33, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Move?[edit]

I know this article was previously known as FA Cup Finals before it was FA Cup Final, but I think that List of FA Cup Finals would be a better title.
 SLUMGUM  yap  stalk  17:39, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd say it would be best moved back to FA Cup Finals. On other pages where the finals are separated out, that's the format used (see UEFA Cup Finals, European Cup and Champions League finals). - Pal 17:52, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Replays[edit]

The article states that the FA changed the rules after the 1993 final so that the final would be decided on the day, through penalties, rather than having a replay. I'd like to know more about this. I can see the argument in favour of it - that you want to get the thing over and done with on a single day - but to me penalties are a highly unsatisfactory way of breaking a deadlock. I'd like to see replays brought back. --Richardrj 20:57, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Break the table up[edit]

One possible improvement that I could see is to divide this table up by time period. 1871-1899, for instance. Thoughts? -Rballou 15:18, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Good idea. There are 125 finals. Here is a suggestion of some milestones to divide around

  • 1872-1899: 28 :End of 19th century
  • 1900-1915: 16 :Pre-war
  • 1920-1939: 20 :Inter-war
  • 1946-1972: 27 :Up to the Centenary final
  • 1973-2000: 28 :End of 20th Cenury
  • 2001-2006: 06 :The Cardiff years

These milestones seem pretty evenly sized, except for the current section, which will grow if we retitle it to "Cardiff and the new Wembley" next year.  Slumgum T. C.   17:15, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I see no problem with these divisons. -Rballou 20:31, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Only allowed to referee once[edit]

David Elleray, whilst commenting on events leading up to his selection as referee for the 1994 FA Cup final; states in his autobiography "The Man in the Middle" the following -

"The pressure on the Cup Final referee is immense. Whatever else anyone might claim, it is the biggest match of your career as you only referee the final once you are desperate not to make a mess of it. People are often surprised to learn that you can only do it once but I thoroughly approve of the principle. It is such a special occasion that, like returning to a favourite holiday location or to an old girlfriend, it would never be as good the second time round. I strongly believe that no one should have all the big games and those who have shown themselves capable of refereeing at the highest level should receive the highest accolade of doing the Cup Final"[1]

  1. ^ Elleray, David (2004). "The Cup Final". The Man in the Middle. London: Time Warner. pp. pages 110–111. ISBN 0-316-72714-8. 

I don't really want to create a trivia section in the article so would be interested on suggestions on how to include this fact into the text. - Foxhill 01:53, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps FA Cup Final Referees could use the info.  sʟυмɢυм • т  c  20:29, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Good idea, done. Cheers - Foxhill 09:34, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Ticket allocation[edit]

Was hoping to find some info here on how tickets are allocated - i.e. for 2007, a relatively low 28% of tickets goes to Man U and the same to Chelsea, leaving 44% (around 40,000 tickets) for distribution elsewhere. Is this appropriate info to include, and can anyone add to it? See also http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/fa_cup/6571255.stm Paulbrock 12:33, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Final traditions/heritage[edit]

The other thing I thought should get a mention is stuff like always singing Abide With Me before the game, possibly things like the 39-steps to pick up the trophy (old stadium only), any other aspects that cover the 'magic' of the cup final? Paulbrock 12:39, 27 April 2007 (UTC)