Talk:Fakir

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Untitled[edit]

Lard Saahib, why drop Iran from the mix? Or Pakistan, for that matter? The tradition that produced faqeers has strong links/roots in Persia, the country/region, and in Farsi, the language.

I am also considering adding a note that the word is also used, very non-sarcasticly, by speakers of Urdu as their common word for "beggar".--iFaqeer 09:51, Sep 12, 2004 (UTC)

Priyuh Faqeer, 1) Pakistan is a 50 year-old nationalist creation and the history of the fakir, solidified over many centuries well before Partition, is associated with a greater India. Saying the fakir originated in Pakistan would be ludicrously anachronostic. 2) On the other hand, the Persian/Iranian roots are clear and important, especially since the word is non-Indian, and those traditions may be duly explicated if you know anything about them. --LordSuryaofShropshire 17:12, Sep 12, 2004 (UTC)
oh, also, the use of the word fakir as a term for pan-handler is on the page; how could you miss that? It's not language-specific to Urdu because people speaking Hindi, Gujarati, Sindhi and Punjabi also use it and the word's as much a part of those languages as Urdu (being Arabic in origin it's a loanword for any Indian language, including Urdu/Hindvi/Hindustani) --LordSuryaofShropshire 17:14, Sep 12, 2004 (UTC)

Too India-centric?[edit]

Isn't starting this entry:

Fakir is etymologically an Arabic term first used widely in India in reference to holy men...

a little too India-centric? This is a universal encyclopedia; not and Indian one. I am okay with this being the first sentence of a subsequent para--it is useful information. I am not making the change right now. Don't want to things in a hurry.--iFaqeer 20:25, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)

Just looked at older versions. Would folks be against adding back the original sentence at the top? It rain:
"Fakir is a term used in Pakistan, India and Persia to describe a person who is poor but "spiritually elevated". It is also used to refer to the common street beggar, but one who chants holy names, scriptures or verses"
--iFaqeer 20:27, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)
Fakir is a term used in many countries now. It's stupid to isolate countries of usage and simply serves a nationalist chauvinism. Origins of the word and its usage, however, are not merely superfluous: the meaning of the word 'fakir' in Persia and the subsequent ideas associated with it in India later on are very different. --LordSuryaofShropshire 20:46, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)
Agreed. But doesn't that make the first sentence even more inappropriate as a start?--iFaqeer 20:53, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)

Okay, please take an objective look at what I have now.

BTW, from feedback given me on other entries by adminitrators, this should be in the Wiktionary, rather than here. Especially in the shape it is in right now, it's a dicdef.--iFaqeer 21:03, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)

Don't worry about it. I'll expand it. It's got a great history and would make for an interesting and varicolored article. (Churchill called Gandhi a fakir once.)--LordSuryaofShropshire 21:16, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)

In Bangladesh and India[edit]

I noticed that the section "In Bangladesh and India" had some serious grammatical issues and wanted to dive in and improve it, but then I realized I couldn't even understand what the author was trying to say. It's not really possible to rephrase something if you don't understand it. Would someone please help? Hoot (talk) 13:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

In fact, it appears the entire article needs a grammatical makeover. Where's an English-speaking Orientalist when you need one? :-) - Hoot (talk) 13:52, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
Speaking as someone with professional editorial experience, I entirely agree with you: you can't rephrase something if you don't understand what the author is trying to say. This is not helped in the case of the 'Bangladesh and India' section by the fact that everything there is unreferenced! It could all be original research. Simon Kidd (talk) 03:52, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Not a Fakir[edit]

Why do we have a lede picture with a caption that says "However, it is far more likely this depicts a Hindu sannyasi [...]"? I.e., why do we have as the lede picture an image of someone who is probably not a fakir? MrDemeanour (talk) 17:59, 23 July 2012 (UTC)