Talk:Farah Pahlavi

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Changing Portrait[edit]

Does anyone have an objection to me changing the picture to a different portrait? ACM83 (talk) 06:49, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Disagreement between Editors and Request for Input and Consensus[edit]

I vote for inclusion of public opinion about the former empress's memoirs since it was world news when it was published, the first time she had gone on record about her life, her husband's reign, et cetera. Unfortunately, none of the reviews was particularly good, and the New York Times's review reflected the general tone. Mowens35 17:10, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Place of Birth[edit]

As far as I know she was born in Tabriz. See The persian article.

And as far as I know, Farah Diba (Pahlavi) died in france today -- add her place/date of death to the article asap —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.185.167.38 (talk) 12:12, 7 October 2007 (UTC)


well such comments are from agents of mullahs. prior to islamic revolution we had female judges such as Shirin Ebadi who was forced to give up her job after islamic revolution & female ministers such as Farrokhroo Parsa, who was executed by firing squad by mullahs on chrges of "fighting God". women are now valued half a man, e.g if a man kills a woman, he will not be executed. he has to kill 2 women to be executed!

Margaret Laing, in her book "The Shah" says that Farah was born in Romania in 1939. I haven't seen this anywhere else, but it adds to the confusion about her place of birth. ~mirfakhr —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mirfakhr (talkcontribs) 03:06, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Should she be referred to as Empress?[edit]

I think not. Couter-Revolutionary thinks she should. --SandyDancer 14:05, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Her highest ruling title was as The Empress of Iran. This is an undisputed historical FACT. As she ruled Iran, with her Husband, as Empress, She should be referred to as Empress Farah.--Couter-revolutionary 14:16, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
  • However, all imperials titles have been abolished, so she is known as Empress out of courtesy, nothing more.Mowens35 19:38, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
That is the only reason Wikipedia does it, yes. Although in my own view the titles haven't been abolished as no one, except perhaps the Shah himself, has the autority to do so. Wikipedia, however, should refer to her as Empress out of courtesey, yes.--Couter-revolutionary 20:04, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Why do we suppose Wikipedia should call someone by a title out of courtesy? Sure, WP should mention the fact some people, principally monarchists like your good self, refer to her as this-or-that out of courtesy, but arguably its a breach of WP:NPOV to describe her as Empress as if it is objective fact. --SandyDancer 20:30, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
But guidelines say they are to be known by their highest ruling title. I assume this is out of courtesey.--Couter-revolutionary 20:43, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Even the cover of her recent memoir gives the author's name as "Farah Pahlavi". I think just about sets things straight; she is Farah Pahlavi (first name, surname) now, legally, but known, out of courtesy to her former abolished position (as are many ex royals), as Empress Farah, though she calls herself Empress Farah Pahlavi, which is another thing altogether. In any case, what's the hubbub bubs? All this is mentioned in the first graph, clearly and succinctly. Let's move on. FYI Counterrevolutionary, you've caught yourself in a POV hard place by stating "although in my own view the titles haven't been abolished as no one, except perhaps the Shah himself, has the authority to do so." Actually, the government of Iran, which succeeded the Pahlavi dynasty, outlawed any and all monarchical titles and styles about two decades ago. They are, like many ex royal families, now null and void, their titles outlawed by legal decree. Again, let's move on. This is an encyclopaedia, not a coffee klatch of imperial groupies. And FYI Counter, your article about the last heir apparent to the throne of Sarawak uses his regular name, sans the last highest held title he once used and has now renounced, so you're being inconsistent. If Wiki guidelines say ex royals "are to be known by their highly ruling title," then you've got some editing to do. Get busy. Mowens35 22:00, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Couter-revolutionary which wikipedia guideline are you referring to? --- Melca 22:38, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
The guidelines,can I believe, be found in previous discussions, there should be a link on my talk page somewhere. Above I stated my PoV, everyone has a PoV, you will, however, note I did not let it influence my argument. I did not try and claim that she is the Empress because no there is no authority to dissolve these titles.--Couter-revolutionary 23:36, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Couter-revolutionary i cant find which guideline you are referring to. Please quote it here. The Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style guideline explicitly states that "Styles and honorifics.. should not be included in the text inline" and "Styles should not be used to open articles on royalty". --- Melca 22:16, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
These are not styles or honourifics but titles. A style would be, for example, Her Imperial Majesty in this case or The Rt. Hon. in others. A title is different, Empress is a title not a style or honourific. Hope this clarifies things. --Couter-revolutionary 22:27, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Any government has the authority to rescind any honors, titles, et cetera, of any former title holders, as is seen clearly in the dissolution of the German empire, the French monarchy, et cetera, all of whose governments formally stripped royals and nobles from their ancestral titles, making such titles null and void and, in the case of Germany, illegal as titles but legal as surnames.Mowens35 00:20, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
I do not agree with you but am not using this as a point of argument at the moment, fear not.--Couter-revolutionary 00:38, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
I think it is irrelevant to this discussion whether the title was formally abolished. Is Shah Abbas not "Shah" Abbas anymore just because the monarchy was replaced by a theocracy? Shervink 10:26, 28 November 2006 (UTC)shervink
I personally believe this discuss to be entirely irrelevant; the article is accurate, factual, and fully referenced.Mowens35 15:02, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
It seems you misunderstood me. I believe the title should be included, because it existed at the time of the Pahlavi monarchy. That it was later abolished is not a reason to exclude it from the article. Shervink 11:28, 29 November 2006 (UTC)shervink
I think you misunderstood me; it is already mentioned in the article. Why are we going back and forth on this? It is already in the article, in the opening graphs and elsewhere.Mowens35 15:17, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Because there are people here who will never be happy until Wikipedia tells the reader that monarchies can never be abolished and we are ruled forever and ever by a few wonderful families who are all descended from the goddess Venus etc etc (or "&c" if you fancy being pretentious), and only "marxists" don't accept that ... it grows tiresome, it really does. --SandyDancer 15:23, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Was just thinking. Presumably, this article should, by Wiki standards, be titled "Farah, Empress of Iran". Why? Because it seems that Wiki allows the last-ranking title to be used, even when the person has been exiled, the throne abolished, et cetera (see Leka, Crown Prince of Albania, etc). Can we start a vote on this? Just to keep it consistent within Wiki as per other articles of former rulers?Mowens35 15:34, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Exile section[edit]

Is not accurate. I don't have time to re-write it now, but I will later today or tomorrow. The Shah and Empress Farah did not just stay in Egypt. They lived in the Bahamas and the USA, and possibly Mexico (need to research that part) before being given sanctuary in Egypt. It was truly shocking how almost all of the Shah's allies turned their backs on him after the revolution. This should definitely be included. Jeffpw 10:25, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree, I updated the section to give a more complete description of exile. ACM83 (talk) 09:14, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I have heard she isnt full persian[edit]

Is this true of this beautiful woman? Manic Hispanic 03:08, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

She is full Persian —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.164.158.81 (talk) 05:28, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
It depends on what you mean by that. She is an Iranian Azeri, as the article states. Rp (talk) 18:52, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Edits explained[edit]

I first entered the edit mode just to change the wording so I could a link to Iranian Revolution in the "Iranian Revolution & exile" section. The revolution was in the section title but not (until I added it) mentioned in the section. It's also logical to include it because the revolution is the cause of the exile.

I ended up doing further edits. I removed "she has a website" as well as "he has a website" (Reza), and "she has an organization as well" (Yasmine). The fact that Farah has a website is clear from the link to it at the bottom; it is definitely not a fact about her life that would be worth including in an encyclopedia article. Reza & Yasmine's website(s) should be linked on their own pages in the same way (I am not bothering to go check on that).

I changed the reference to Reza to reflect (1) both his legal and pretender-to-the-throne names and (2) his political stance & activity. The previous wording (something like "he is active in the current affairs of Iran") seemed both coy and irrelevant. "Active in current affairs" is not worth including in his mother's biography; "still trying to get back on the throne," seems worth including.

Question: under "birth," her mother's name is listed as Sohrab, but under "exile," it says the children were sent to stay with her mother, whose name there is listed as Farideh. Huh?

That's all. Vcrs 19:40, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Question re Meeting the Shah: I don't know where to post this (sorry if this isn't the right place), but the article claims that Farah was first presented to the Shah at the Iranian Embassy in Paris. In the HBO documentary "The Queen and I" Farah herself explains that she met Shah for the first time at Shahnaz's house at the urging of Zahedi. Do we have a soource for the former claim? Or should it be changed based on her personal account? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smalek (talkcontribs) 00:11, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Farah was indeed presented to the Shah at the Iranian Embassy in Paris for the first time, but this meeting was very impersonal; the Shah was simply presented with Iranian students living in France. It is debatable whether the Shah even remembered her. They truly became aquainted with each other at the meeting at Princess Shahnaz's home which, as you said, was arranged by Zahedi. --173.79.229.114 (talk) 00:57, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

The many people who advise royals, Emperors, or the late Shah, always have an interest that the dynasty doesn't get rattled. Therefore the really important person does not get to know people who are not vetted. What if they meet a person who has not been screened, fall in love, and it turns out the family background leaves a lot to be desired. When a young prince goes to university, the advisors check out who is at the university, who the prince is likely to meet, and especially who he'll share a flat with. The advisors would have checked over Farah and then facilitated the contact as a good option. Especially since Farah had lost her father early, there was a good likelihood that an older man would be something she longed for, so it could be a good match. 121.209.56.202 (talk) 07:12, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Alive?[edit]

Although a series of edits over the past 24 hours have updated the article to indicate the Empress's death, I can find no reliable reporting (or any other kind, for that matter) on the matter and have therefore reverted them. Until it's reliably reported, I think we must assume that, like Monty Python's Mary Queen of Scots, she's not dead yet... Robertissimo 03:44, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. I can find no news reports in English, Dutch or French, and have done multiple searches. Though I remain neutral in the article itself, on this talk page I will say thank God the editor who made the change was wrong. The world is a better place with the Empress in it. Jeffpw 07:09, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I quite agree. Let's hope she is alive! God save the Empress [sic]! --Counter-revolutionary 09:25, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

It was announced by Pars New Agency and immediately they apologized for the mistake. Her Majesty is alive and god bless here... Long Live Shahbanoo... Nimanas 09:30, 8 October 2007 (UTC)Nimanas —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nimanas (talkcontribs)

Excellent news! Is she sick, however? Smoke, fire and all that. --Counter-revolutionary 09:34, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
CR, I think if she were sick we would have heard about it. I have her on Google news alewrts and have not read a single article alluding to ill health. From everything I have read in recent months, she has remained active in both social and human rights causes. Also, on a personal level, she recently took the time to reply to a letter I wrote--I don't think she would have done that if she had pressing health concerns. Jeffpw 10:03, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Coronation[edit]

Does anybody know the date of her coronation? Surtsicna (talk) 18:59, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Lame move war[edit]

There are at least three reasonable candidate titles for this article under the MOS. The current title isn't one of them. Honorifics, such as "Her Imperial Majesty" are generally deprecated. We don't use them for anyone. Convention is to treat deposed and deceased royalty and their consorts as we do royalty -- this is part of NPOV. By treating all royalty and former-royalty the same way, we avoid taking sides for or against any monarchal movement.

The available MOS-compliant options are:

  • Farah of Iran. This is in accordance with Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom.
  • Farah of the Empire of Iran. Since Iran is no longer an Empire, this would emphasize that the title does not continue into the present day.
  • Farah, Empress of Iran. Disambiguation by title.

There may be other reasonable suggestions, but they need to be consistent with the Manual of Style.

Discussion? Robert A.West (Talk) 12:25, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree that styles must not be part of article's title, but:

The following edit-conflicted with a move. I support the move, but not out of process (although moving back to a name which is certainly not the one we want seems to value process above result).

  • I consulted with an employee of a former NPO with strong ties to the Iranian emigré community; they used Farah or Empress Farah. To pre-emptively disambiguate against a possible Safavid consort of the same name, Farah Pahlavi or Empress Farah Pahlavi would be sensible; when dynastic names are commonly used, as with the Medicis or Gonzagas, WP:NCNT supports using them.
  • Of these, I prefer the first, without Empress; the article says she herself avoids the second. We don't have to use titles: Joséphine de Beauharnais doesn't; nor does Charlotte of Belgium, the Empress of Mexico. (We don't seem to have an article on the other Empress of Mexico, the wife of Agustín de Iturbide).
  • We include country and title only for purposes of disambiguation. We include neither, therefore, for Agustín de Iturbide himself, nor for Babur. Farah Pahlavi is sufficient and unambiguous.
  • The parallel with Queen Rania of Jordan assumes that the situation is parallel. WP:NCNT says Existing Royal Consorts are referred to by their consort name, e.g., Queen Sofia of Spain. But when she dies, she will revert to her pre-marital title, ie, Sofia of Greece. As widow, some appropriate addition (usually announced by the country in question) will be amended to (such as Queen Dowager or Queen Mother), with the new Queen of Spain being referred to by the consort designation. The same rule applies to male royal consorts. Empress Farah and all its cognates violates this doubly:
    • It fails to acknowledge her widowhood.
    • It suggests that the Empire of Iran still exists, a debatable claim. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:21, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I have just fixed quite a large re-direct mess to this article. Please try not to move the page too often to avoid creating masses of double re-directs and other problems i.e. come to an agreement here first before a move. Camaron | Chris (talk) 21:42, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

This is noted on WP:RM, so it can be closed by an admin. Hopefully the result will be stable. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:45, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Farsi[edit]

"Farsi" (with capitalization) is a proper noun in English, with this definition: "The modern Iranian language, dating from about the ninth century a.d., that is the national language of Iran and is written in an Arabic alphabet." The word is commonly used, whereas "Persian" almost always indicates the ancient language(s) of the Persian Empire. SteveStrummer (talk) 15:08, 25 February 2010 (UTC)ri

Please discuss this issue at this page instead. Aaker (talk) 22:38, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't know what happened to the earlier comments that sparked my own, but I am happy to withdraw mine at this time. Thank you for the illuminating link! SteveStrummer (talk) 18:15, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Ethnicity[edit]

The repeated stressing of her being Azeri seems excessive. Her father was Azeri Iranian, her mother was from Gilan. I don't see her being referred to as half-Persian or Gilaki or half-Azeri.

Azeris are an Iranian group and since she isn't entirely Azeri the information that her father is from Azerbaijan (plus the information about the language) and her mother from Gilan should suffice.

User: Murray 23:49, 12 May 2010

Why are Azeri and Persian names in that order?[edit]

Currently, the article seems to imply that her Azeri-language name is the most common, and gives the Persian/Farsi name only for her maiden name. I would think that logically her name in Farsi should come first, and I'm not even sure why her Azeri name would be included at all. She was consort of a country whose primary language was Farsi, and I haven't read anything saying that her native or preferred language was Azeri. Failing any clear justification, I plan to render both names in their Farsi spelling barring any contra-consensus here. MatthewVanitas (talk) 17:42, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

If you want you can put her name in Farsi on the first place, and the name of the Azerbaijani language in second place. Талех (talk) 16:17, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Sounds good, but do we need the Azeri at all? I understand she was part ethnic Azeri, but did she herself tend to write to write her name in Azeri? MatthewVanitas (talk) 17:54, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
It is foolish to discuss this issue. Put the names in their native language. This is her native language Azeri and Persian. The names of the Azeris from Azerbaijan, Georgia, Dagestan and Iran should be in native languages. It is logical. If you remove the Azeri name, it should be removed for the milestones of the Azerbaijanis from Azerbaijan, Georgia, Dagestan and Iran. Талех (talk) 09:01, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
"Foolish"? Courtesy, please. And your response shows exactly the kind of nationalistic bias that made me suspicious of the addition of her Azeri name. The current article says nothing about her being an Azeri speaker, preferring Azeri, etc. If it is indeed the case that in her private life she preferred to speak Azeri, that would be useful info. But barring that, to an outside observer (me) coming in, I see a person who was part of the Persian-speaking aristocracy, who had one parent originally from an Azeri area, and so I'm not seeing why this person's Azeri name is anywhere near as vital as her Persian spelling. MatthewVanitas (talk) 17:07, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Sorry. Do not mean to offend you. I want to say that the regions do not yet speak about what some of the parents could be non-Azerbaijani. Provide an authoritative source that the mother of Farah Deby was not the Azerbaijani woman. Aristocracy is not to say that the Azeri language is not owned by an aristocratic family. I would like to add that the name of Ismail Khatai also in Azerbaijani. Can offer and there Azeri name removed? Талех (talk) 15:14, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
You are writing using an alphabet that is completely irrelevant to Farah's heritage. Farah Pahlavi's father was from Iranian Azerbaijan where they do not use the Latin alphabet. The Latin alphabet for the Azerbaijani language is only used in the former Soviet Azerbaijan, which is quite different to Iranian Azerbaijan after a few centuries of separation. Why would you write in an alphabet that has nothing to do with Farah's heritage, seeing as Azeris in Iran do not write in Latin, and most wouldn't even be able to read Latin either? Furthermore there is not even any evidence to suggest Farah can speak Azerbaijani or considers herself to be from there. Tehran absorbed immigrants from all over Iran who mostly assimilated into the "Tehrani Persian culture" so it's rare to find Kurds, Azeris or other ethnic groups who are actually able to speak in the language of their migrant parents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.174.1.133 (talk) 16:54, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
Azerbaijani alphabet consists of two parts and I think we should add two options. This is true not only of Iranian Azerbaijanis, but also of Azerbaijanis from Azerbadzhana, Georgia and Dagestan. In the article about President Ilham Aliyev of Azerbaijan are two versions of the alphabet. Талех (talk) 02:29, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
I'm in agreement with the IP above: lacking any argument that Farah spoke Azeri, I fail to see the reason to have her name in Azeri. We don't include the Gaelic names of Irish-Americans, or the Japanese-alphabet names of Japanese Americans (unless their Japanese-spelled name is tied to their notability, or used by them personally). MatthewVanitas (talk) 02:38, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
If I see no reason to write the name of Cyrus the Great in Persian. Maybe his name should be written in Tajik. =) If you remove the name of the Iranians of Azeri origin, it is necessary to remove the alphabet Iranian Azerbaijanis from the articles of the Caucasian Azerbaijanis or Azerbaijani alphabet of all the articles about the Azerbaijanis. I correctly understood your logic. Талех (talk) 16:54, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

My two cents: I do not think Tajik Cyrilic alphabet is used in Cyrus the Great. The Perso-Arabic alphabet can be used because his names does occur in some old history books and modern Persian translations of the bible (which is not recent). Even then the issue is fuzzy, since Cyrus predates this alphabet and only the Old Persian should be mentioned. Also the Perso-Arabic script has 1200+ years of writing while the Cyrilic Tajik script should only be used for Soviet era and modern Tajikistan personalities. Historical figures are irrelavent to the discussion. Every article has its own issues and we are discussing a modern article. I also believe Farah's name should not be written in Latin-based alphabet because no uses it in Iran. If someone decides to put it on Elham Aliev, it is not related to Iranian articles and falls under WP:OTHERSTUFF. However, your comment falls under WP:OTHERSTUFF. For this article, Farah Pahlavi or other modern personalities from Iran have never ever written their name in such an alphabet as it is not used in Iran. It is equivalent in writing their name in Cyrilic or Hindi or Chinese alphabets. Actually on an interesting side note, the late poet Shahriyar called the Latin-based alphabet as "Alefbaayeh Sheytaan". Be that it may, if no one in Iran uses it, then it has no relavence to this article. People in the republic of Azerbaijan use it, but this article is for the English Wikipedia and Iran related article. So it makes sense to remove the latin alphabet from another country, since no one in Iran uses it. As per having the Azeri name or not, it is true Farah is half Azeri, and this point can be argued, but only the Azeri alphabet used in Iran makes sense for a modern Iranian persoanlity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.18.222.120 (talk) 17:10, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Lords, why we are talking about the alphabet? This is the language of the people, which owns the person. In articles about the Ottoman sultans have the alphabet of Turkish and

Ottoman languages, although if you follow your logic in the Ottoman Empire did not write in Latin Талех (talk) 19:06, 10 April 2011 (UTC) The Ottoman Sultans falls under WP:OTHERSTUFF (not relavent to this article). Although I would also think it is wrong to have modern Turkish alphabet for Ottoman Sultan and if such an article exists, it should be correct. \However, in Turkey, the Ottoman alphabet and the modern Latin-Turkish alphabet have been used in history. In Iran, no one uses the latin-based alphabet for any of the languages. In the republic of Azerbaijan, the latin-Azeri alphabet is only 20 years continous use, and Farah lived long before then. I am not sure what "owns the person" means but I do not think any people "own" Farah or any other person. Perhaps you mean associated with? She simply rather belongs to Iran and her father is Azerbaijani-Iranian, but that Azeri-latin alphabet is not used in Iran and she has not written her name in such an alphabet..

Талех, you seem to be the only person pushing this Azeri thing. I emphasise again, barring any evidence that Farah had a tendency to use Azeri (by whatever alphabet) with any regularity, I and others see no reason to include that spelling. If it's an article about an Iranian-Azeri author who wrote in Persian but in his private life used Azeri, sure, give both spellings. But at this point it appears that you're insisting on having Farah's name in Azeri (and in an alphabet not used by Iranian-Azeris of her period) solely because she was ethnically half-Azeri. Barring evidence of her usage of our preference for the Azeri version of her name, the translation should be the language with which she was associated, Persian. MatthewVanitas (talk) 14:20, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
Why do you do focus on the alphabet? Articles on Uighurs at the two alphabets, as well as articles about the Ottoman sultans. This person is an Azerbaijani woman and you have not submitted evidence that her mother was not the Azerbaijani woman. The fact that her mother was born in another place not yet said that her mother was not an Azerbaijani woman. About Azerbaijan proishozhenie Farah Pahlavi, you can also be found on Google Book. Here is a quote from the book " For instance, the Shah's wife, Farah, is of Azerbaijani origin and often spoke in the language with Azerbaijani guests at the palace. ". Azeri intellectuals in the reign of Shah spoke in Persian, but it does not mean that the Azerbaijani language for them is not native. Талех (talk) 14:31, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
Okay, so we have some argument that she was capable of speaking Azeri. But what's your justification for including the Latin Azeri alphabet vice Perso-Arabic Azeri? The Uighur article has multiple alphabets because the Uighurs use multiple alphabets. The article is about an Iranian-Azeri (Perso-Arabic alphabet), not an inhabitant of Azerbaijan. MatthewVanitas (talk) 14:48, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
Dear friend. I explained that for a man of Azerbaijani origin need to put his name on the original language, rather than the alphabet. I'm advocating that all Azeris from Azerbaijan, Iran, Georgia and Dagestan to put names on the Latin and Persian-Arabic script. Articles about some of Azerbaijanis from Georgia and Azerbaijan have names in Latin and Persian-Arabic script. The main thing is not the alphabet, and the original name of the mother tongue. Талех (talk) 15:55, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

What you advocate is not policy. Wether other articles have Persian-Arabic script or not, is not related to Iranian Azerbaijan where such an alphabet is not used. The Iranian Azerbaijani language based mainly on the Tabriz dialect uses Perso-Arabic alphabet. The original name in the modern tongue is actually Perso-Arabic : Farah (Arabic) and Diba (Persian). She does not pronounce it like Azeri-Turkish Fereh or Pehlevi but in her own talks, it is always Farah and Pahlavi. So "Fərəh Pəhləvi" is not used by her as she prounces it as Farah Pahlavi. So you are using a Baku-based Vocalization and alphabet which is not relavent to IranianA zerbaijan. Until you can prove Farah Pahlavi uses such an alphabet and vocalization (Fereh instead of Farah), it could be a WP:BLP violation as well. Overall, if a script is not used in Iran, it is irrelavent to Iran related articles to introduce such scripts. --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 16:11, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

If you continue to focus on the alphabet, I'm not going to talk with you. I'm talking about the original native language, you tell me about the alphabet. Azeri name in Latin or Persian-Arabic script - the same thing. I accept the Azeri Turkish as an insult. This is a Turkic language, but not Turkish (closest to the Turkish language - it's Gagauz language. Do you want to call it Gagauz Turkish). I beg no longer use such a title. Талех (talk) 16:12, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Actualyl the dialect in Iran (see South Azeri) has phonological/morphological differences. Also see here: [1]. So when writing it, once should use the alphabet of this specific dialect. It is a dialect from the same language but it is still has its own features one of them being that it uses Arabic alphabet and has its own features. The standardization of it is based on Tabriz dialect (Shahriyar's work for example). Shahriyar incidentally called the Latin alphabet as Alefbaaye-Shaytan. So I think we need to compromise here, we should put the name in the dialect that is used in Iran. Note Fereh is definitely not the correct pronounciation of her name as you have it vocalized and violates WP:BLP isuess. thanks.--Khodabandeh14 (talk) 16:22, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Dialect Dagestani Azerbaijani and Georgian Azerbaijanis also differ. Perso-Arabic for Caucasian Azerbaijanis [2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13] What do you think about this? Талех (talk) 16:25, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Those are other articles, which does not matter really in terms of this article. What is clear is that persons form Iran do not use such an alphabet. However, in the Caucasus, the Perso-Arabic alphabet was used at one time. For example all the writers and poets prior to the 20th century in the Caucasus used the Perso-Arabic alphabet. However, in Iran, at no time, the latin alphabet was used. Also the other issue is that phonetics associated with the latin Alphabet.. for example you have "Fereh", but it is not pronounced that way. What is clear to me is that if Iranians do not use this alphabet, then it has no place in Iran related articles. However on the Caucasus or Daghestan, the Perso-Arabic was used at one time and so it is a different issue. --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 16:28, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

By the way Dagestani Azeris use Azeri Cyrillic. On this part of the Azerbaijani people in the English wikipedia too little is written, and in fact in 1920s the Azerbaijani language was the sole language of instruction in schools of Dagestan. Талех (talk) 16:39, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Well the policy of removing Perso-Arabic alphabet from these countries has just cut them off from their roots rather than helping them become modern. Note Chinese alphabet or Japanese alphabet are 100x harder than Perso-Arabic alphabet but these countries are advanced. So there is a political issue in Iran with regards to this alphabet and Shahriyar himself called it: "Alefbaaye-Shaytaan". The Perso-Arabic alphabet is the one that has been used for 600+ years or since the start of an Azerbaijani language. It cannot be compared to Cyrilic in Daghestan. Anyhow, not to digress but in Iran as long as such alphabet is not standard, then it should not be used for people from Iran. The books and newspapers (official and non-official books) use Perso-Arabic. Specially, the phonetics and vocalization of some of the words are different too where-as an advantage of Perso-Arabic is that it allows different vocalization of the same root (some might call it a disadvantage). Overall, in Iran the issue of latin alphabet with regards to even Persian is political and is seen as an attempt to cut-off the roots of the literature. I am not sure about the merits of these arguments (pro or con) but in iran, they use the alphabet used for the Standard Tabrizi-Azeri dialect (that of Shahriyar) in Iran. --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 16:46, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

We're talking about different things. You talk about the alphabet, I say that we must write the name of the mother tongue. I know a lot of Iranian Azeris, who read the Azerbaijani Latin alphabet. Well, let's name will be on Azeri Persian-Arabic script. You can name the original on the Azeri Persian-Arabic script to put down for all the Iranian Azeris? I only have one question. Azerbaijan Persian-Arabic script differs from the Persian alphabet. You are an Iranian Azeri or Azerbaijani just know the letter? Талех (talk) 06:41, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Well as I said, I had no problem using the script used in Iran for any language that is used in Iran. I would say the overwhelmingly majority of Iranian Azerbaijanis do not know the specific latin alphabet used in the Caucasus (some in the West might due to exposure to latin alphabet or learning Western languages). But it is not used in Iran for writing Azeri. In terms of alphabet, the Azeri-Perso-Arabic alphabet is the same as Perso-Arabic alphabet in Iran although some have introduced some alphabets for some phonetics, but this has not caught on. For example, Shahriyar's work does not have that added ortography while some magazines do. We can say the main script Nastaʿlīq script was created in Tabriz (Mir 'Ali Tabrizi) who was from Herat. [14]. --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 16:17, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

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Farah Diba[edit]

With the move war and discussion of being an Empress, you guys forgot one thing. Persian women do not take their husband's last name upon marriage. As her own signature shows clearly, she typically goes by Farah Diba not Pahlavi. As is the convention, she uses Pahlavi to refer to her relationship as Queen/Empress in English. Nobody would refer to her as Farah Pahlavi in Farsi. 66.87.69.7 (talk) 02:27, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Aspect re revolution[edit]

One aspect that lead to the revolution, which obviously shaped Farah's life, is probably relevant enough to be mentioned. The late Sattareh Farmanfarmian wrote in her memoirs that Iranians were quite outraged that all US oil workers were declared to have diplomatic status to shield them from Iranian law under the Shah. This was apparently a significant contribution to the discontent which led to regime change. The world has not become a better place through the Iranian Revolution and a significant aspect that led to this negative development for individuals as well as countries should probably not be swept under the carpet. This is worth knowing, for this case and for a lesson how not to do things, or you get a revolution. 121.209.56.202 (talk) 07:22, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

iran[edit]

dorod bar shoma madare tamame iraniha man ra bebakhsh ba ADabiyate sade kalamat ro ada mikonam inha az janbe dost Dashtane ziyade mara bebakhsh banoye in sarzamine afat

zade inra bedanid baraye man madarid doset daram ta akhar  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.99.32.23 (talk) 15:26, 1 January 2015 (UTC)