Talk:Finglish

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disputed[edit]

"three contiguous vowels are not allowed. They are broken up by inserting either a back or front glide depending on the phonetic environment: leijata (to play) sauveri (shower)"

play has one, two tops. Aspirants are not vowels. -eri is three vowels in a row.

"syllabic consonants are modified by inserting a vowel in front of them: kaluna (gallon) hanteli (handle)"

There's no vowel between n and t.

"words should end in a vowel. The preferred word-final vowel is /i/ but /a/ is also encountered: reimi (frame) kaara (car), heerkatti (haircut), loijari (lawyer)"

car and lawyer already end in a vowel.

"when the word in English begins with two or three consonants, all but the last consonant are dropped before the word is acceptable for Finglish: raikki (strike), touvi (stove), rosseri (grocery)"

Words do not gin with three consonants; r is a vowel. -lysdexia 03:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.233.215.204 (talk) 03:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"three contiguous vowels are not allowed. They are broken up by inserting either a back or front glide depending on the phonetic environment: leijata (to play) sauveri (shower)"

play has one, two tops. Aspirants are not vowels. -eri is three vowels in a row.

The word "play" has a single diphtong, but the hypothetical fennicization (p)leiata would have a three-vowel cluster (eia, IPA /eiɑ/) which is broken up by inserting a palatal approximant (/j/). In the English pronunciation of "shower" (/ˈʃauə/), the W is elided, producing a triple vowel, which in the Finglish form is broken by pronouncing the W as a distinct labiodental approximant (/ʋ/, written as v). The R, which is also elided in English, is pronounced in Finnish as an alveolar trill.

"syllabic consonants are modified by inserting a vowel in front of them: kaluna (gallon) hanteli (handle)"

There's no vowel between n and t.

You seem to be confused about the meaning of a syllabic consonant.

"words should end in a vowel. The preferred word-final vowel is /i/ but /a/ is also encountered: reimi (frame) kaara (car), heerkatti (haircut), loijari (lawyer)"

car and lawyer already end in a vowel.

Not to a Finnish-speaker they don't. In Finnish pronunciation, the letter R represents an alveolar trill consonant. This is in contrast with English, where R is most commonly pronounced as an alveolar approximant — a sound which does not exist in Finnish — and is often elided especially at the end of a word.

"when the word in English begins with two or three consonants, all but the last consonant are dropped before the word is acceptable for Finglish: raikki (strike), touvi (stove), rosseri (grocery)"

Words do not gin with three consonants; r is a vowel. -lysdexia 03:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

You seem to be using an unusual definition of a vowel, certainly not one appropriate for Finnish phonology. In Finnish pronunciation, as mentioned above, the letter R represents an alveolar trill and is fully consonantal.

All in all, while I find your specific issues to be mistaken, I agree that this article could use some clarification. In particular, the sections you quoted seem to have been written with the assumption that the reader is familiar with both English and Finnish phonology, and probably, reading between the lines, by and for a native Finnish-speaker. The pronunciation issues you seem to have stumbled over could probably be clarified by the inclusion of IPA transcriptions of both the English words and their Finglish counterparts. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 17:40, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The general issue here seems to be the "r" sound at the end of English words like "player". This sound does not exist in Finnish. Finns find it difficult, if not impossible, to pronounce, and instead leave it out, or replace it with the Finnish "r", which is more like the sound in "race", but perhaps even harder. JIP | Talk 18:21, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Finnish 'R' is more likely the R in 'race' pronounced in Scottish dialect. It is way harder than most 'r's in any language. 88.114.29.31 (talk) 18:30, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Finglish in Finland[edit]

I have noticed that here in Finland, in modern Finnish, there is a very noticeable tendency to borrow words from English and bend them into a Finnish way. Two forms come to mind, each slightly different.

In one, an English word is adopted in full, but can be conjugated as though it was a Finnish word. Thus one sees job ads for "Business Controllereja" (Business Controllers), the words being totally in English, but the case form totally Finnish. The reason for the adoptions puzzles me because words normally get adopted in a language because words like this normally get adopted because there is no equivalent word in the target language. Clearly this is not the case with Business Controller because perfectly good Finnish equivalents exist.

The other type of adoption is perhaps more understandable. For example "pliis" and "sori" are tending to replace "ole hyvä" and "anteeksi" for "please" and "sorry", the, audible word being totally adopted as a Finnish word and spelled accordingly. These are clearly often heard words that get adopted because of commonality.

The second example is prehaps more understandable as to why this has happened, but its less easy to understand why "Business Controller" has not become "Bisniskontrolleri" or even "Pisniskontrolleri". Perhaps its a kind of lingusitic snobbery, rather in the same was as some English writers prefer to write "bon appétit" rather than the normal adoption "bon apetit". I agree that these two examples are not Finglish as originally definded but it is a kind of adoption of English words into a more modern Finnish according to different kinds of rules.

What is the native Finnish view on these kind of adoptions of English into Finnish?

Tom 16:27, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly? That they're just more proof of Finland's cultural impoverishment under the torrent of American influence. --Kizor 06:14, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not quite. They are more like fads. Expressions like that come and go Since English and Finnish are vastly different laguages, such loans are likely to either disappear, become calqued or become morphed into normal Finnish.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.237.141.27 (talk) 10:30, 29 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Finglish in English[edit]

The current article is limited to discussing English words imported into Finnish, but Finglish can also mean the reverse: the mutations in English when spoken/written by a native Finn, as showcased in this Flickr group. Worth a section? See also Tankero, which touches on this but doesn't really explain what or why "tankero-English" actually is. Jpatokal 13:54, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That sort of Finglish-English is abundant in Wikipedia itself, where Finnish authors like to talk about things like Continuation War , Greater Wrath or use names like Viipuri in 14th century context.Warbola 17:12, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]