Talk:Finland

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  • Spin-off Heavy Metal to its own article Heavy metal in Finland
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Wrong Flag[edit]

Although the flag shown on the article is the civil flag of Finland, the official state flag is different.It has a red emblem in the middle. Proof is on the flag of finland article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.21.61.62 (talk) 20:10, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Society - nuclear family statements[edit]

The statements in the article that:
"Finnish family life is centred on the nuclear family"
and that:
"Relations with the extended family are often rather distant and Finnish people do not form politically significant clans, tribes or similar structures."
both require references and, in my opinion, some explanation.
Families were historically reasonably large in Finland as elsewhere, and so in the absence of sufficient disposable material wealth to enable each offspring to leave and set up home alone, they would be expected, as a natural consequence of procreation, to have become extended. The statement needs at least to be contextualised historically. By seeming contrast to Finland, in Western Europe, the nuclear family was the result of the imposition, by force, of religious and economic ideologies.
Similarly, the second statement seems at odds with both current socio-political reality and orthodox anthropology. For instance, the assets, material and human, of any individual family would be at the mercy of any larger grouping. There remains great enmity between different regions in Finland, which is reflected in the quotidial and universal use of local dialects. The term "politically significant" also requires clarification and reference if it is not to serve merely as a weasel term.
LookingGlass (talk) 08:08, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Finland's history from appr. the year 100BC on until the beginning of the first millenium missing[edit]

First known king: http://www.geni.com/people/Kari-Fornjotsson/6000000001669620081

"There was a king named Fornjot, he ruled over those lands which are called Finland and Kvenland; that is to the east of that bight of the sea which goes northward to meet Gandvik; that we call the Helsingbight."

Fornjot was born in Finland, so he was Finnish and Finland either meant or included the area of Kvenland. Northmen called Finns as Kvens.

http://www.emersonkent.com/images/maps/europe_814.jpg

The map of Europe from the year 814 showing that Finland/Kvenland was the pre-eminent northern power of Europe for a thousand year period.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_bFE1C2V08s0/S63Y94f9wsI/AAAAAAAABDY/z99gYWEkaRg/s1600/frnjtre.gif http://www.davidkfaux.org/files/deBeaufouFullReport.pdf

Above the pedigree of the Finnish kings.

Why does the article modestly state that "the name Finland appears on three rune-stones", when we know it appears in a dozen of the earliest northern and other sagas?

Similarly, the world's oldest runic inscription is in Finnish... Why not mention this?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aFtvb1ghkZU/UVna8N3fYwI/AAAAAAAACas/tO1h95rTDDI/s320/Harja+Vimose.jpg

"This is the oldest runic inscription found. It says HARJA which is exactly the same as 'harja', meaning comb or , brush or ridge, in modern Finnish. The word is etymologically very old and had this Finnish form when the comb was made, i.e. it cannot be confused with some non-Finnish interpretation. Moreover, the word is found in all sister languages. The possibly related Baltic (or other) words do not resemble it at all neither now nor back then. The comb was found in Denmark and is dated to 160 CE (same time as the birth of Fornjotr, king of Finland, Kvenland and Gotland)."

This clearly indicates that we're not talking about one or more uncivilized tribes, but that we're talking about the most advanced early northern civilization there was.

The amount of material is simply overwhelming and yet not a word is mentioned in the article. Wikipedia does have a questionable reputation in many respects, but there are people who take the given information (or lack of it) seriously.

The whole article must be rewritten by someone who knows about these things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.155.236.125 (talk) 00:59, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

I agree, it should be mentioned, you can find better links than blogspot too. Bladesmulti (talk) 07:22, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Images[edit]

Has anyone else looked at the images critically? A lot has been added, but little removed. Also, general quality and uniformity control would improve the article a lot. What I currently see is not the best selection:

  1. Astuvansalmi - A picture of a rock and a tree. In the thumbnail, you can't see the paintings. Proposal: Remove without replacement.
  2. Sweden map - Good. Better ones are always possible. Keep.
  3. Soviet document - Not illustrative. More central to this would be e.g. something related to the civil war or the 1910s in general. Proposal: Replace with an image from Finnish Civil War.
  4. WW2 map - Good, though it would be even better to have e.g. the Viipuri castle here to "give life" to what was ceded; the map is especially in the thumbnail for rather lifeless. Furthermore, too many maps would be detrimental. Proposal: Replace with e.g. Viipuri.
  5. Kekkonen - Good. The obviously most important person of the era. Proposal: Keep.
  6. Sorsa - Partially redundant with Kekkonen. There's already one politician, and in this era, it can't be anyone but. Proposal: Remove without replacement.
  7. Euro - Useless and not Finland-specific (Finnish euro coins would be). This is just "garnishing" textbook style, no value added to article. Proposal: Remove, replace with something current.
  8. Geography images up to regions map: I'm content with these. Proposal: Keep.
  9. Admin divisions: Good otherwise, but these suffer from something common in the article: there are no people, it's just the structure that is visible. Proposal: Replace some.
  10. Municipalities map: Could it be removed or merged with provinces map? Proposal: Merge.
  11. Parliament: Nice picture, but is this just decoration? Proposal: Keep.
  12. Ahtisaari: Good, there's people here. Proposal: Keep.
  13. Flags in front of EU building: Decorative, would belong to an article about the EU but not necessarily here. Proposal: Remove without replacement.
  14. Armed forces: Nice to get vehicles from each branch represented, but I think this is not Finland-specific. Could there be a replacement for the ski patrol picture from the Finnish Defence Forces that was deleted due to licensing problems? Proposal: Find one good image to replace all.
  15. Nokia: Proposal: Keep, due to economic importance.
  16. Angry Birds. Proposal: Keep. People in the picture.
  17. GDP growth: Proposal: Keep. Hard to replace.
  18. Aleksanterinkatu: Proposal: Keep.
  19. Product exports: May be rather too "generable", but it's useful. Proposal: Keep.
  20. Eurozone: Excessive detail? Could some other maps be included here? Proposal: Merge.
  21. Olkiluoto: Otherwise good but hard to see the details in the thumbnail. Proposal: Replace if possible.
  22. Reindeers: I think this is tourist guide stuff. You don't see that on Kehä I. Proposal: Remove without replacement.
  23. Icebreakers: Proposal: Keep as Finland-specific.
  24. Helsinki-Vantaa: Proposal: Remove since there are plenty of airports in the world, and the picture is largely useless with respect to the article.
  25. VR: I don't know if this is necessary. It's a good image, though. Proposal: Keep.
  26. Suomenlinna: Would be more relevant in the history section. This one would be better for the subject matter. Proposal: Move in-article, replace with another image.
  27. Churches: The main religion is Christianity, so it has to be there somehow, but do we need two images of just churches? Proposal: Remove one.
  28. Agricola: Good. Proposal: Keep.
  29. Aalto amfi: Are there less "architecture photography"-type versions? Proposal: Replace if possible.
  30. Seminaarinmäki: Redundant with previous. Proposal: Remove without replacement.
  31. Kansallismuseo: Would it be more helpful to have the art, not the museum? Proposal: Replace with art.
  32. Sibelius: Good. Proposal: Keep.
  33. Apocalyptica: Idiosyncratic to Finland. Could be updated if there are other ideas. Proposal: Keep.
  34. Linus: The guy now lives in the U.S., so how relevant is he here? But, he's from Finland. Proposal: Keep.
  35. Karjalanpiirakka: Good. Proposal: Keep.
  36. Sauteed reindeer: Redundant, maybe OK in the cuisine article. Proposal: Remove without replacement.
  37. Kokko: Proposal: Remove without replacement. This is just a picture of a fire, hardly useful.
  38. Ice hockey: Good, as the sport #1 in the country. Proposal: Keep.
  39. Paavo Nurmi: Are two sports images necessary? Proposal: Remove without replacement.

That's a lot of images, so some pruning would be in order. These are my opinions. Please comment. Also, it would be helpful to list potential images to add. For instance, I think the lasting legacy of the 70s bilateral trade isn't Sorsa's face, but the Loviisa nuclear power plant. I want to have this here as an unified discussion, rather than start pruning it myself individually and get reverted. --vuo (talk) 19:13, 14 October 2013 (UTC)