Talk:First Carlist War

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Basque
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Basque, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Basque people, Basque Country, Basque language, history and culture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
 
WikiProject Spain  
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Spain, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Spain on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject France  
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Military history (Rated Start-Class)
MILHIST This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality assessment scale.

This article is totaly sided with the Spanish official version that pinpoints it as romantic versions all historical facts that contradicts the arranged official version of those absolutist and fanatic Basques that wanted the Inquisition.

To rewrite it there is going to be needed a lot of work. It is so naif that even deny the importance of the suppression effort of the Basque Foral system. It also forgets the English and French interest in the comercial rutes and the American colonnies.Idiazabal 12:00, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

You forgot there were Castilian, Gallician, Andalusian... Carlists uprisings. Were they fighting for Basque Fueros too? --195.57.95.44 16:46, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Even though, the fact that Carlos V did not say a word about "Fueros" (which, when Carlist war began were still on) is quite forgotten. BTW, it should be noticed that most Historians say that the Abrazo de Vegara (Vergara Treaty) did not end the war, but just on the troops which Maroto leaded. That make imposible to keep on fighting the rest of Carlist "Army" in that front (whose troops were quite fed up with the war), so it leaded to the end of hostilities there. As it was noticed, Ramon Cabrera kept on fighting months before Vergara.

Oh, and this "Meanwhile, in Catalonia and Aragón, the people saw the chance of recovering their foral rights, which were lost after the Spanish Succession War when Philip V defeated their armies that fought for Archduke Karl of Austria, the other candidate to the throne after the death of Charles II of Spain. It is quite ironic that the Catalans went to war to defend the Salic Law, promulgated by a King who they still hated." is just an opinion. In fact, I cannot see the need of re-telling Spanish Succession War instead of a Wiki-link. Besides, there was an ultra-catholic uprising during Ferdinand VII rules in Catalonia, so with Carlos they find a reason to rise again for the ideas they have just fought for. --80.103.137.151 02:31, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Too centered[edit]

This article is too Northern Front-Basque centered. We should talk about the other fronts of the War, Carlist Expeditions, etc. --80.103.128.180 01:07, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Politically biased[edit]

The chapter referring to the basque provinces and the upraising is politically biased. The writer is clearly influenced by a basque nationalist view.

Clearly, the evolution of the spanish economic pattern was related with the basque participation in the upraising. But it shouldn´t be considered an exclusive or predominant reason, as the upraising was too solidly established in other regions such as Galicia, Castilla, Catalonia or Aragon. In fact, only rurality, extreme catholicism and conservadurism may be seen as common patterns in the main Carlist regions.

The ascension of Santander may be a reason of economic decline in the basque ports. But, incidentally, none of the ports supported the carlist movement. Neither Bilbao nor San Sebastian were ever conquered by the Carlists.

Finally, it is searched an "anti-basque" purpose in the spanish politics of the late XVIIIth century. The Spanish court had no reason to destroy economically any region of the country. The first years of the XIXth century were years of general ruin and destruction after the Independence War. The (limited) ascension of Santander affected mainly to Cadiz, which hold the previous monopoly of american commerce. The main carlist leaders in the Basque Provinces were ex-guerrilleros, all fighting 4 years fiercely for the spanish independence and the Borbon kings.

Finally, as far as I know, the fuero of Biscay never applied in Santander. This assertion should be re-examined.

As a conclusion, the chapter is part of the political discourse of the basque nationalist, whishing to demonstrate the existence of an historical conflict between Spain and the Basque Provinces.

-I think the chapter about "basque reasons for carlist uprising" should be completely deleted, there is no reason for talking about basque reasons and not about catalonian, castilian, aragonese, etc; saying that Biscay was divided to let Castile have a sea port in Santander is not true, since Santander province didn´t belong to Biscay; the reference about convention war is wrong, since it is ridiculous thinking of Godoy siding with the english against the basques (then just a pair of spanish provinces),the writer should read a little more about convention war. And finally it is ridiculous saying that spanish commercial routes and power were mainly sustained by the basque ports, commercial navy and companies, since the main ports, as everybody knows, were Cadiz, Coruña, Seville, Valencia, Barcelona, and also Bilbao and San Sebastian (but not mainly).Layo 10:43, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The Flag is Anachronistic[edit]

The cross of Burgundy was marked down as the Carlist flag in the mid-1930s. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 12:06, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

"http://flagspot.net/flags/es%5Ecarlw.html" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.85.2.56 (talk) 11:34, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Desamortización[edit]

The English for desamortización is perhaps disengagement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.142.175.22 (talk) 12:08, 2 February 2009 (UTC) Deleted a large chunk of unreferenced, anti-basque conspiracy-theory prose with no historic value and little relevance to the subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.4.112.58 (talk) 12:21, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

1833-1839?????????[edit]

In fact 1833-1840. Dont't forget Ramón Cabrera. Eastern Carlist forces kept on fighting after the Treaty of Vergara. Northern Carlists gave up in 1839.