Talk:Flat white

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Is a Flat White different to a Latte?[edit]

The style needs to be cleaned up in this article. Especially the use of the word "Dynamic" —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:33, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Having looked at this page, and the pages it links to and google searches, a flat white is just a properly made latte in the US. Exact same thing. Take a look at David Shomers Cafe Vivace site,, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Charlesaf3 (talkcontribs) 18:28, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

This doesn't seem to differ all that much from what Americans call a caffè latte. Could it be that it's a case of two names for essentially the same object, such as raisins versus sultanas, and thus appropriate to be merged? — :ArkansasTraveler 18:05, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
No, they taste and look different - but if the article is correct I'm not sure why they are. Latte is definitely milkier, maybe the flat white has water rather than milk? NZ tea drinker 19:56 30 Jan 2006
So more like cafe au lait then? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:57, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
Flat white is "flat" (i.e. probably looking a little like tea) hence the name. Latte tends to have a little froth from the milk on top. It's distinct enough, and it's not found anywhere else in the world. One barista I spoke to said it's the ultimate type of coffee for baristas to brew - the "barista's coffee" - because it's much more about the brewing & appropriate mixing of milk than any other coffee -- Aussie coffee addict 03/06/2006

Wouldn't this more resemble a cappucino (which has similar proportions) rather than a latte? Is it prepared differently? — Nahum Reduta 00:36, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

A flat white should be made with a double shot over which is poured milk steamed to a thick velvety consistancy. Its a good deal stronger than a latte and its distinguishing feature is that it is not served with foam(hence the flat bit)- or with chocolate or cinnamon dusted over the top etc. A barista will often make a nice design on the top when pouring the milk, which is good indicator of the consistancy. Bollax 13:34, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

"I have been advised that a Flat White is essentially a Cappuccino without the froth on top. This may not be true today; it was put to me that this was the way it developed in Australia and New Zealand. It might be worth while finding out whether this story is true. John McDougall An Australian resident in Saudi Arabia, where I am forced to drink the products from Starbucks (with extra shots)"
(Comment originally made in the article body by
I saw a claim somewhere that the difference between a flat white and a cafe latte is that the former is made with the froth and milk stirred together before pouring. Can any barristas confirm this? -- pde 21:15, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Frankly, this sounds like a properly made latte - what Bollax is referring to above. In order to make the design, you have to make good microfoam, which requires some artistry.
To clear some things up, Latte's have the foam mixed in with the milk but no barista uses a spoon so I wouldn't say stirred. The bubbles (which should be very very small) will create an emulsion with the milk when frothed and should remain suspended for some time. I believe that the difference between a Cafe Latte and a Flat white is the strength (flat white has more espresso/milk), the size of the cup and finally a flat white has less foam. Although these differences seem insignificant in description the resulting drink is quite distinguishable to a trained palate. Harris77 (talk) 02:04, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Have undone mention that Flat White has more foam than a latte as this really doesn't seem correct (thus the whole "flat" thing). (talk) 09:38, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
My take is that flat white has more milk to expresso proportion (perhaps single shot for latte and double for flat white). A French who knows about the scene of coffee served in Australia told me cafe au lait would be equivalent to flat white. --JNZ (talk) 06:55, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
This is so silly. Flat whites are nothing but interpretations of the southern European coffee with milk (au lait in france, con leche in spain, com leite in Portugal and so on). The ones you get in New Zeland and Australia are localizsed nuances introduced by italian, spanish portuguese emigrants. Typically the main difference will be that expresso in southern Europe (the original expresso by the way) is made mostly of Robusta which is cheaper and has a stronger bitter taste, also having higher caffein content than Arabica. Please cut the crap with northern italian roast or spanish roast there is no such thing! Southern European coffee uses coffee mixes from pretty much the same regions (colombia, brazil, africa) usually with high robusta percentage and is roasted in the exact same way. Actually the coffee distributors selling the beans in southern europe are pretty much the same regardless of the country (Buondi, Illy, Segrafredo, Delta, Bogani, Lavazza etc)-- 16:09, 28 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk)

A Flat White differs from a Latte in that it is served in a smaller ceramic cup[2], whereas a traditional latte is served in a glass with the espresso shot poured over the steamed milk.

This is untrue as a latte also has the shot poured in first, a latte macchiato has the shot poured in last to "mark" the foam with the espresso — :j01t25g81 16:05, 06 March 2009 (UTC)
I was referring to a "traditional latte", as served in a glass. The main reason why the shot is poured over the milk is not to mark the milk with the espresso, but rather because there simply isn't sufficient clearance on a typical espresso machine to enable the espresso to be extracted directly into the glass. Thus, there is no distinction between the traditional (glass served) latte and the latte macchiato (a modern interpretation). Of course if you can find any references that suggest otherwise feel free to share! To reiterate - I am talking about the traditional latte, not modern interpretations of it. (talk) 14:00, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks to all who have contributed, but regardless of what our individual opinions are, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and requires references to support what an article says. I've added a couple of references, which support the version as it is now. If you disagree with what is written, please read those references first - if you still disagree, find some further references to support what you think it should say. Of course, the nature of the beverage is that there isn't one version, and variations exist from country to country, as well as from city to city, and even café to café. Fundamentally, though, we need REFERENCES! OceanKiwi (talk) 17:16, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Should you really state "obscuring the complex flavours of the coffee"?? It sounds as if the writer objects to this drink. -- (talk) 10:08, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Link expired[edit]

This link [1] seems to have expired and should be removed. --František K (talk) 10:43, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

This wikiLink [2] is incorrect, and has nothing to do with coffee or related beverages. It should be updated or removed. -- AK2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:25, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Fixed to point to the correct article. — daranzt ] 21:01, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Distinction from Cafe con Leche[edit]

The Distinction from Cafe con Leche section is pretty silly, and almost original research. It is a pointless section: does anyone say the two beverages are the same? No? Then why a lengthy defensive section insisting they are different. Anyway there are several coffee and milk beverages and a range of interpetations (even from barista to barista) and we do not need lenthy sections arguing each and every little difference of each and every different beverage. Some of the elements in the section would not be true of all interpretations of the flat white anyway. I think I'll remove the section soon. Format (talk) 19:49, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Restore Australia 2011-Feb[edit]

User:Jcbeckettnz deleted all references in Australia from the article. This included the removal of a reference. The main section affected is below:

The beverage was reportedly created in the early 1980s in either Sydney, Australia or Auckland, New Zealand. Derek Townsend, the co-owner of DKD café [1] in Auckland claims to have developed it, though acknowledges that the term "flat white" was already in use in Sydney to describe a similar style of coffee.[2]

The nearest we have on the origins (referenced) of the beverage are that someone in NZ developed it, but that he understood something similar already existed in Australia at the time. Therefore we probably shouldn't remove all reference to Australia, so I have restored what was deleted. Format (talk) 07:58, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

U.S. temperatures[edit]

I don’t know why, but espresso thermometers in the U.S. typically are marked with the desired band as being 150–170 °F. Common brands like CBN’s IRB220, (which I own), and the the Espresso Supply, Inc. 11160 are ubiquitous and sold in a variety of forms under different brand names. I don’t know if it’s the “chicken or the egg” phenomenon, but not surprisingly, Web sites like suggest steaming milk to 150–170 °F.

So rather than state the parenthetical to direct equivalence to degrees Fahrenheit, I showed the common steaming temperature for those individuals who commonly work in degrees F.

And for those who would decry that I am a big-time advocate of U.S. Customary units of measure trying to further darken the doorstep of an article closely associated with Australia, I am not. I modified by Rancilio Ms. Silvia with a pressure gauge reading in bar and a boiler-temperature gauge in Celsius. I would have bought a Celsius thermometer but couldn’t find one locally. Greg L (talk) 18:21, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

couple of recent media articles discussing origin[edit]

[3], [4], [5] Theodore D (talk) 20:30, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

very generous of Kiwi Wikipeians to restore mention of Oz in this Flat White article[edit]

Technically, it could be said that the Flat White originated in Oz. But saying it was developed in both Oz and NZ is a fair compromise. It is no less accurate than saying the pavlova was developed in both NZ and Oz. But wait, the pavolva article at present appears to falsely claim NZ as the sole origin. What gives?Theodore D (talk) 05:26, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

  1. ^ Named for the three founders: Derek Townsend, his then-partner Karen, and Darrell Ahlers; see DKD - the truth behind the name, 24 May 2007
  2. ^ Dixon, Greg (2008-07-22). "The birth of the cool". New Zealand Herald. Retrieved 2010-04-07.