Talk:Fleance

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Good article Fleance has been listed as one of the Language and literature good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
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GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Fleance/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Thank you, Wrad, for working so hard on these Shakespeare articles! This corner of Wikipedia is becoming so much better because of you!

  • I don't know if there is more research that could be done on Fleance. For example, do any of the many volumes on Macbeth itself have a few stray lines on Fleance? The "Analysis" section just seems a little thin right now.
    • I'll dig around. Wrad (talk) 22:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Whew! Done. Although now it probably needs another copy-edit. Wrad (talk) 23:50, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
        • Looks good to me. --Xover (talk) 00:44, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Is there an image or quote you could put at the top of the article?
    • fixed. Wrad (talk) 22:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Fleance and Banquo are mentioned in Holinshed's Chronicles. - Explain to the reader unfamiliar with the Chronicles what they are. I don't think this information should only be mentioned in the lead, as the lead is supposed to be a summary of what is in the rest of the article.
    • fixed. Wrad (talk) 22:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
  • In the Chronicles Fleance flees to Wales and marries Nesta verch Gruffydd, daughter of Gruffydd ap Llywelyn, the last native Prince of Wales. - Why is he fleeing?
    • fixed. Wrad (talk) 22:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Why is Macbeth jealous? Awadewit (talk) 04:36, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
        • I tried a different tack. Revert if you don't like it. --Xover (talk) 21:06, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
  • The Stuarts used their connection with Fleance and his marriage to the Welsh princess to claim a genealogical link with the legendary King Arthur - Why? How did this help them?
    • fixed. Wrad (talk) 22:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
  • The story of Fleance as described in other sources does not appear in Shakespeare's play. - What other sources?
    • fixed. Wrad (talk) 22:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Marvin Rosenberg argued that the tension that exists between Fleance and Macbeth is made stronger by the fact that Macbeth has a child - Who is Rosenberg? A Shakespeare scholar?
    • fixed. Wrad (talk) 22:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Marvin Rosenberg argues that the tension that exists between Fleance and Macbeth is made stronger by the fact that Macbeth has a child: his motive is not just greed but also fatherly ambition - It is hard for the reader of this article to understand the greed part - we need a little more information on Macbeth's motivations. We haven't heard about greed yet - we have only heard about ambition.
    • fixed. Wrad (talk) 22:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Some productions of Macbeth show this tenderness by having the title character frequently pat Fleance on the head, or attempt to do so, but be denied it when Fleance withdraws to his father. - sentence is hard to follow
    • fixed. Wrad (talk) 22:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Scholars have interpreted this to mean that Banquo has been dreaming of murdering the king as Macbeth's accomplice in order to take the throne for his son, Fleance, as the Three Witches prophesied to him - I don't quite follow
    • fixed. Wrad (talk) 22:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
  • They argue that Banquo is merely setting aside his sword for the night, but when Macbeth approaches, Banquo, having had dreams about Macbeth's deeds, takes back his sword as a precaution. - Explain more clearly - what deeds? Why does he need to take precautionary measures?
    • fixed. Wrad (talk) 22:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Why have you chosen to focus on these three screen versions? The choice seems a bit random.
    • Those are the only three I could find with scholarly commentary on Fleance specifically. Wrad (talk) 22:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Macduff shoots Macbeth and takes the ring off Macbeth's finger. - What ring? Why?
    • fixed. Wrad (talk) 22:44, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm placing this article on hold as I am confident that these issues can be resolved in a short amount of time. Awadewit (talk) 02:15, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm passing this article. Awadewit (talk) 06:11, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Historia Gentis Scotorum and Fleance[edit]

Fleance and his father Banquo are both fictional characters apparently created by Hector Boece, whose Scotorum Historiae (1526-1527) was a source for Raphael Holinshed's Chronicles.[1]

Hmm. This doesn't match my recollection, and the cited source looks like a popular press edition of four of Shakespeare's plays. Can we perhaps find a scholarly edition to cite this to? --Xover (talk) 23:01, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

The source I just added covers it, actually. Paul, Henry N. Wrad (talk) 23:03, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Shakespeare[edit]

Me gusta shekespeare —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.54.86.247 (talk) 19:33, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Fleance as a fictional character[edit]

Hi there, not sure how to fix this but Fleance DID exist as did his father. See The Forgotten Monarchy of Scotland by Michael James Alexander Stewart. (page 40 and 41 and pages 44 and 45). Cheers Tania —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tania Roxborogh (talkcontribs) 23:03, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

''Macbeth thematizes the rivalries between pairs of father and son: Banquo and Fleance, Macduff and his son, Macbeth and his. Theater expert Marvin Rosenberg argues that the tension that exists between Fleance and Macbeth is made stronger by the fact that Macbeth has a child: his motive is not just selfish striving, but also fatherly ambition. All that Macbeth does to Fleance and Banquo is for the sake of his own son. Some productions of Macbeth show this tenderness by having the title character attempt to pat Fleance on the head, when Fleance withdraws to his father's side. [2]

The above paragraph, the first in the Analysis section, is problematic. Rosenberg is explicitly putting forward an alternative interpretation of Macbeth that posits that the title character has a son. There is no explicit mention in the play of such a son, and indeed, Macduff's line at 4.3.216, "He has no children," is often interpreted as referring to Macbeth.--Trystan (talk) 05:30, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

  1. ^ Bevington, David. Four Tragedies. Bantam, 1988. p.714. ISBN 0553212834
  2. ^ Rosenberg, Marvin. "Lady Macbeth's Indispensable Child." Educational Theatre Journal. (March 1974) 26.1 pp. 14-19.