Talk:Fluke (band)

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Former good article Fluke (band) was one of the Music good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
Date Process Result
October 11, 2006 Good article nominee Listed
December 4, 2006 Featured article candidate Not promoted
December 27, 2009 Good article reassessment Delisted
Current status: Delisted good article
WikiProject Electronic music (Rated B-class)
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Atom Bomb/Wipeout XL[edit]

Looks like two of us are editing the "also seen with" list for Wipeout to reflect two different collections of music. Are we talking about the Wipeout XL game, or the soundtrack album? The artist and track lists are different between the two. My edits reflect what's actually on the game disc (which is red book audio, and can be played in any CD player). The Leftfield, Orbital, Source Direct, and Daft Punk tracks which are on the soundtrack album are not in the game. And from the game, all the CoLD SToRAGE tracks and one Future Sound of London track (Landmass) don't appear on the soundtrack album. Personally, I think we should go with the game's tracklisting. — Wwagner 23:49, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

I was referring to the soundtrack - which I don't think is actually called Wipeout XL (I don't know who made that edit) - we should split the two out probably.... Martin Hinks 08:14, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
The soundtrack to which you're referring is indeed called Wipeout XL (I have a copy). And just for maximum confusion, the North American release of the game was called the same thing. I'm still wondering why they put different tracks on each. Probably some licensing or money thing. <shrug>
As for splitting 'em out, after looking at the article again, I don't see that it's really necessary. Reading over the text, it's somewhat clear that the article is referring to the soundtrack album (the whole same-name thing is what makes it weird). Yesterday I created an article on that CD, so I'll just link 'em up, and nobody will be confused. And really, we're just saying "Fluke appeared on a disc with these other folks." That's absolutely fine with me, because it's true. — Wwagner 07:14, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Julian Nugent[edit]

Hi,

I recently removed Julian Nugent from the band members list as I can find no biography of Fluke that mentions his name! He is mentioned on adambomb.info 's forum, but he is not included in any of the official biographies on any major site as far as I can see. Therefore, until someone produces a source, please omit him from the band member list. Martin Hinks 14:38, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi,

Thought I'd mention that 'Julian Nugent' is credited as a band member on the 1993 album 'Six Wheels on my Wagon'

Cheers

Things to do/in progress of being done[edit]

Hi,

I've recently been doing a lot of work on this page and just so that people don't revert some of the changes that I've made thinking they are silly here's how my thought process is running:

  • 2-Bit Pie/Lucky Monkeys currently link back to Fluke (band). I think that there is certainly enough material for a page on 2-Bit Pie, if not Lucky Monkeys - hence why they are linked to in the Fluke template.
  • I'm working on biographies of each member so those redlinks will be gone soon
  • Owing to a discussion with User:kingboyk we do not particularly want articles for every Fluke song, only notable songs/albums. A chronology of singles should be fine but not pages for just album tracks - otherwise write about it on the album page.
  • Band images are in severe shortage. I'm contacting the band about the current copyright status of the top image which should hopefully resolve that, any other licenced pics would be welcome! - resolved now, all images should go into Category:Fluke images and have correct copyright info :)
  • Start a Remixes section...
  • Start a Live section...
  • Can anyone clarify the Julian Nugent position (as per other talk topic)?
Clarified - inlay of Prog Hist X cd says "Management: Julian Nugent"

Thanks,

Martin Hinks 12:28, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

The image you use in the lead features a rather attractive young lady, but the intro paragraph doesn't appear to say who she is. (I presume she's not Jon, Mike 1, Mike 2, Neil or Hugh... she could be Robin, I suppose). Perhaps you'd make that clearer. --kingboyk 12:41, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
I will do - it's certainly a nicer aesthetic with her in the shot - just got to find the place where it says who she is... saw it just the other day... I'll puit it up when I've found it. Martin Hinks 12:47, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Can't find it at the moment - I'll see if I get a reply to copyright status, if not then diff image will be needed. Martin Hinks 13:07, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Got the info at last! Her name is Rachel Stewart and she sang the female vocals for Fluke's live performances - I've started to add this info to the page and will add more when I do the live section. Martin Hinks 15:31, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Did you get her phone number? --kingboyk 10:23, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
No, but I sure as hell won't be putting it in the article when I do! :P Martin Hinks 09:45, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

OK, well, I don't suppose Martin will be too surprised that I've just popped up :) I'm not going to do the GA review myself, for obvious reasons, but it looks pretty good to me, so I expect you'll get it whether it be immediately or after an "on hold" with a few small tweaks first. Anyrode, if you're thinking of moving on to FAC - which you probably ought to be - here's a few things which need polishing:

  • Forum posts are not reliable sources per WP:RS. A forum post could have been made by anybody, emails are easily faked. They're not really "published sources" either, which a source needs to be to be citable.
  • The lead should be a summary of the article. Everything in the lead must be properly sourced, but it's probably best to save the citations for the body (not sure if there's a policy on this but it was discussed here). Also, ensure that anything of substance in the lead is also mentioned in the body.
  • Footnotes should come after punctuation, apparently (certainly after the full stop if at the end of the sentence)
  • "Fluke's recognition by such a prominent DJ greatly added to their mainstream acceptance and is one of the main ways through which non-fans first heard of the band." Citation? Original research?
  • ""In 2003 Fluke released their long awaited album Puppy, much to fans' surprise". Ditto.
  • Sorry to have to point this out, but your references are still a bit weak. I don't see a single newspaper, magazine or book. Perhaps if you could get to a uni library you could access ProQuest or a similar newspaper archive?

Hope that helps, and if you'd like to return the favour please let me know which KLF-related article you think is closest to FA standard and any tips for improving it (see WP:KLF for some contenders), so I can get it polished and nominated. With Vinoir absent I don't get that crucial second opinion :( --kingboyk 20:11, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey kingboy :)

Really appreciate the comments, as you said, it's hard to see these things from the inside sometimes! -

  • Forum posts: yeah, I sourced them at the time just because I thought it was better to have a v. weak source than no source at all. I intend on moving the citations out of the lead and then restating with citations in the body when I next get some time (maybe tomorrow :)) I think the newspaper archive is a great idea - I have access to the University of London libraries so maybe in the next couple of weeks I will try and track something down, is pretty hard though on what are really a fairly obscure band (no autobiographies/writings by band members etc.)
  • Original research: 'is one of the main ways through which non-fans first heard of the band' should certainly be removed - musta been v. tired when I wrote that and there is no way I will get a source for it even if it is true. I am unsure exactly what to do with statements such as 'greatly added to their mainstream acceptance' which are implicitly true - if a prominent DJ plays a group's music then they have gained some form of mainstream acceptance - do I need to source that or will it do to leave it as a logical conclusion of public exposure? The 'long awaited' etc. is a ditto from me here as well - has to go! (well, it was long awaited by me :p)

The only way I can get this to FAC is to improve the references considerably, which will be tricky, but is something that I will definitely work on - with The KLF for example it is easier to come by sources as when Jimmy and Bill make a noise the media sit up and listen - Fluke never got that kind of attention (we won't go too far into the reasons why hehe!).

I'll take a look at the KLF project tomorrow and pick an article.

As I said, really appreciate the comments and flattered that you think that FAC is a possibility for the article.

Cheers kingboy Martin Hinks 20:42, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, you never know what ProQuest might throw up. You only need to find a handful of really good articles from quality papers and you're starting to look in much better shape. I appreciate that whereas Bill & Jim only have to light a fart and they get into The Times (hehe), and Fluke never got that kind of exposure (as we've discussed before), but they must surely have been covered by a newspaper or 2 of some repute at some time in their long career? They're probably also mentioned in some of the specialist books on dance music too. Definitely worth a trip to a uni or big city library I would think. And what about the music press? Is there any way of getting access to the archives of NME, Mixmag etc? These publications must have covered them at some time or another? (And to think of the skip full of these publications I once put into recycling, sob)
"if a prominent DJ plays a group's music then they have gained some form of mainstream acceptance - do I need to source that or will it do to leave it as a logical conclusion of public exposure?" How about something like "Fluke received national exposure when played by John Peel on BBC Radio 1". Fact... ??
Clearly it's not FA at the moment but I don't see why it couldn't be got there, and I think it has a really good shot at GA. Given the limited resources you've done a good job - I hope you can find a sh*tload of references soon and then we can finally see what you're made of! :) --kingboyk 21:06, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
lol, I'll get on with the sourcing - will do KLF project assesment now :) Martin Hinks 09:34, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Where'd you get the new references from then? :) Oh and btw, I didn't get your email with that phone number in it ;) --kingboyk 16:43, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Used my Athens credentials to do some searching of various online journals - Billboard magazine proving the most useful. I now need to restructure a lot of the article and re-beautify it, but these sources are much closer to the type we want! Dunno about the tel number, but her email is on the Beauty School website hrhr :p Martin Hinks 17:39, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
How do you access Billboard mag using Athens? I've only used Proquest for KLF stuff, is there anything else I might have missed? --kingboyk 07:51, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
I can't remember the database name - I'll send you an email when I'm back home. Martin Hinks 10:14, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

GA Passing[edit]

This is very well written and well referenced article that is eaisly read by a non-specialist audience. IMO it is easily a GA. My one quarrel is the lead, it seems a bit long, prehaps some of the info in it could be put into the rest of the article, and prehaps cite the bands forming. Good Work Everyone.

†he Bread 07:02, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you v. much :) Will work on cutting down the lead a bit. Many thanks again! Martin Hinks 07:05, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Excellent. Mine's a pint! --kingboyk 07:49, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

The Saint[edit]

Somewhere in this article there should be a mention of "The Saint" starring Val Kilmer. If it weren't for the soundtrack to this movie, I likely wouldn't know that Fluke existed and thus they wouldn't be one of my favorite bands.

They also received some excellent exposure through the use of "Absurd" in numerous commercials, to particularly good effect during the introduction of the new VW Beetle.

ThePauper 22:58, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but a list of all films that Fluke have been featured in is not appropriate for this main article which already features exemplars of where their work has been used. Perhaps a discography subsection would be appropriate. Martin Hinks 07:50, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm just saying that they had 2 tracks in the soundtrack to The Saint in 1997. I don't see why that's not more worthy of mention than that some snippet was used in the trailer of a less popular film (as measured by IMDB star-rating) 3 years later. I would actually add this reference to the paragraph that begins "Amongst the more prominent of these appearances..." Are there other major studio releases to which Fluke contributed 2 or more songs?ThePauper (talk) 17:56, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA Reassessment[edit]

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Fluke (band)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

As part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles' Project quality task force ("GA Sweeps"), all old good articles are being re-reviewed to ensure that they meet current good article criteria (as detailed at WP:WIAGA.) I have determined that this article needs some work to meet current criteria, outlined below:

  • There are significant numbers of unsourced statements in the article, among them:
    • "The attention that these records received successfully gained the band a record deal with Creation Records with whom they released their first CD single "Philly" in the same year."
    • "Along with the releases of these first two albums, Fluke also began their career-spanning tradition of releasing work of a different nature under various monikers."
    • "After a two year break Fluke returned with what was to be a breakthrough into mainstream popular music when, in 1993, they released the single "Slid". This single became an instant club classic when it was picked up by DJ Sasha who liked it so much that he included three separate remixes of it on his Renaissance album." (citation at the end of this returns a 404).
    • "The following year Fluke released their third album, Oto, which is the Greek for "of the ear". In terms of style, Oto was somewhat darker than Six Wheels on my Wagon, focusing on the downbeat ambient effects which were present in the second half of Six Wheels, and the band completely removed the uplifting house style that characterised their previous work. Owing to the decreased accessibility of the album as a result of this, only three singles were deemed suitable for release from Oto; "Bubble", "Bullet" and "Tosh"."
    • "With the group split it was seen fit to release two "Best Of" albums entitled Progressive History X, a compilation spanning their entire ten year producing history, and then in 2001, Progressive History XXX, a three CD box-set including many rare and hard to find mixes. Both releases were packaged with the artwork "Just Your Average Second On This Planet" 1997-1998 by David Bethell The box-set contained black, red, white and blue versions of the same original cover art, and also came with a poster of the silhouette image on one side and all other album covers on the flip."
    • Continuing on...
  • Tone: The article is filled with peacock terms, unsourced flattery, and biased phrasing. Most of these issues could be alleviated by removing cherry-picked quotations from critics given undue weight, and properly sourcing information.
  • One or two paragraph groups are not true paragraphs (by definition they need three or more sentences.) These quasiparagraphs need to be cut, merged, or expanded.
  • Non-free content like File:Fluke - Absurd Whitewash.ogg is used incorrectly, with little in the way of significant critical commentary as required by WP:NFCC.

I am putting the article on hold for one week, longer if work is done to address the above concerns. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 20:18, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

As there have been no efforts to address the above, I am delisting. The article can be renominated at any time, but I encourage any nominator to address the above issues. Any questions or comments should be directed to my talk page. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 19:53, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.