Talk:François Rabelais

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Untitled[edit]

This article, so far, makes Rabelais sound like a civil libertarian or proponent of free speech. It does not convey the "Rabelaisian wit" at all.

He may have been a keen observor of his time - but so what? Many people are that. A lot of them sit around in doughnut shops, bars, lunch counters, goumet coffee bars, and barber shops. Or shoot pool.

He was an artist, no? Was his writing scandalous at the time? If so, why - specifically?

Needs to be fleshed out in terms of the man as a human being (which would be the basis of the man as a writer).

Removed "Notable Thelemists"[edit]

I removed Rabelais from the category "Notable Thelemists", because that pertains to followers of the 20th century mystic ideas of Aleister Crowley. I trust no one has a problem with the removal of this, but I decided to let everyone know the reason why I removed Rabelais from the category. Canutethegreat (talk) 06:05, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

formatting[edit]

this page badly needs to be formatted

fr[edit]

added links, but to fr: articles : Gryphe & Jambet. --DLL 08:53, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

last words[edit]

The article currently gives Rabelais's last words as "I am off in search of a great perhaps"; is there a source for this? The Catholic Encyclopedia has the following to say about his last words:

Statements regarding his last moments are contradictory. . According to some he died as a free-thinker and jester, saying, "Draw the curtain, the farce is played out", according to others his end was Christian and edifying.

-- Cobra libre 17:59, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Found a reference that has both quotes - Last words of real people - and will insert it. Stellar (talk) 03:32, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Even if he (or anybody) said "I am off in search of a great perhaps" that statement doesn't necessarily mean he was an agnostic, as it sounds whenever it's repeated in a modern college classroom. The "great perhaps" might refer to the salvation or damnation of his soul. From a Catholic point of view it's a pious statement, because it's considered hubris to assume salvation. 76.115.63.153 (talk) 19:43, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Thomas Urquhart[edit]

Urquhart is a translator of Gargantua, and therefor cannot be fictional.

Translation[edit]

We need to cite the translation. Rabelais did not write in English, as the quotations imply. We also need a better citation of the source; it is ambiguous as to which of R.'s works the quotations actually come from. Tkinias 16:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Dates[edit]

There seems to be a bit of confusion concerning the birth year in the article. According the introduction/header, he was born c. 1494, but in the opening paragraph to the biography, the estimate is changed to 1483. Which one is it? A little consistency would be nice. (207.68.110.54 23:13, 8 April 2007 (UTC))

According to some sources the most probable date of Rabelais' birth was 1483. Irrespective of which date is the most probable one, I strongly propose changing the text so that it mentions both dates, at the very beginning. A proposed way to rewrite the paragraph:

Although the place and date of his birth are not reliably documented, it is probable that François Rabelais was born in 1483 or 1494 near Chinon, Indre-et-Loire, where his father worked as a lawyer[citation needed].(Desiderius82 (talk) 12:34, 31 January 2008 (UTC))

Rabelais and Thelema[edit]

This section begins with a pronoun. I presume "They" must refer to the "Gargantua" series, but I think it needs some work for the sake of clarity. 204.185.19.25 17:46, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

As one editor has noted, presenting Thélème as Utopian is dubious and probably wrong. The abbey may stand as a satire or a rebuke of the monastic life in the sixteenth century, but Thélème is Club Med. If someone says, "Let's eat and drink," everyone eats and drinks. If someone says, "Let's dance," they dance. But if someone says, "Let's study," they throw him in the swimming pool. This is satire open to all comers and all pretensions. Perhaps a better informed scholar than the present one (or I) can rewrite this article. Josephlestrange (talk) 21:15, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Other[edit]

"His revolutionary works, although satirical, revealed an astute observer of the social and political events..." The use of "although" in this sentence implies there's some conflict between being a satirist and being an astute observer of social and political events. In fact no qualities could be more crucial to a satirist. Rosekelleher 01:39, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 04:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

In Popular Culture[edit]

This section is mistitled. Erik Satie, C. F. Pierce, D. H. Lawrence and the name of an Asteroid have nothing to do with "Popular Culture." I can't think of a better title though. Anyone? 68.196.119.5 (talk) 18:36, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Biography[edit]

First paragraph deals with his birth date and place.

Second paragraph begins with "Later he left the monastery ..."

Doesn't look like an intentional lacuna - what happened? RCopple (talk) 16:04, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Orwell's Diss[edit]

Orwell's literary criticism focuses on picking out the personal politics of an author - which consequently makes many of his reviews seem negative or even damning. He has the rare ability to see politics as separate from aesthetics...see his takes on "Raffles", Dickens, P.G. Wodehouse, "Good Bad Books", ect. His take on Rabelais is very similar to his take on Swift, and while he can't avoid feeling Swift was half-insane, "Gulliver's Travels" was one of his favorite books. He's not quite as keen on "G&P", but to say he had no admiration for Rabelais is sort of misleading. 76.115.63.153 (talk) 20:07, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Utopia?[edit]

The section on the Abbey of Thélème claims that it is supposed to represent some sort of utopia. Really? Can we get a citation from this, that's not from Aleister Crowley? It really sounds like something from a school paper and not from a scholarly source. Mangoe (talk) 14:57, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Date of birth[edit]

The date of birth is more probably 1483 than 1494. It should be noticed in the introduction. I'm sorry but my sources are french. I think by example of the commentary of Mireille Huchonin the complete works of Rabelais in the Pleiade editions. You can see the french article, a little more advanced, but room for improvement too. Besides, I find suprising the name of the article Gargantua and Pantagruel to deal with the works of Rabelais . Zythème (talk) 02:21, 22 November 2013 (UTC)