Talk:Franz Müller

A fact from Franz Müller appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 20 June 2006. The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that German tailor Franz Muller committed the first murder on a British train, in 1864?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2006/June.

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American Civil War needs to be referenced by name[edit]

Perhaps it is common knowledge that it raged from 1861-5 (and that therefore Muller fled there during it) but an oblivious reader might wonder about the stated legal link between the murder case and the cited issue about the ship named Alabama. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.16.72.221 (talk) 17:19, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus in this discussion to move to new title Mike Cline (talk) 12:21, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Franz Muller → Franz Müller – Müller is the name given in the contemporary news reports here not Muller (that appears to be the Anglicised spelling).relisted--Mike Cline (talk) 12:59, 14 January 2012 (UTC) 86.160.72.217 (talk) 20:39, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

comment the contemporary reports use "Franz Muller" [1][2][3][4][5][6][7] -- do you have evidence aside from one website that usage is shifting? 76.65.128.132 (talk) 14:13, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The contemporary reports being used above as evidence of Muller are strangely all antipodean in origin...i.e. from Australia and New Zealand. I am basing my point on a London news service copy, not that of reproduced copy from 12,000 miles away in the age before telext. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.53.167.64 (talk) 18:29, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am surprised you think New York City, USA and Baltimore, USA are in Aus/NZ. 76.65.128.132 (talk) 04:54, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support -- If the British papers are taking the trouble to use the umlaut (which does not occur in standard British orthography, it is probably correct. I note that it is used in the lead. The murder occured in London, so that the London papers are more likely to be correct than foreign ones reprinting the news. Peterkingiron (talk) 23:56, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I don't believe that usage in one version of English should be a justification to change the current title. That should require clear and convincing proof and consensus. Vegaswikian (talk) 03:04, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support, assuming his name really was Müller, our well-established style is to use the umlaut anyway, even though some English sources drop it (as many sources don't do diacritics anyway).--Kotniski (talk) 11:02, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support, he's German, the umlaut is appropriate. Let's also be consistent - here are two examples of more German "Müllers": Fritz Müller and Thomas Müller, both with the umlaut. Bastian (talk ★ contribs) 19:12, 14 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – even if we assume his German name was Müller, he seems to have been referred to mostly as Muller in English accounts. Dicklyon (talk) 04:29, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Alternative title[edit]

I would have !voted for Franz Muller myself but it seems I was too late. However, even better I suggest would be Murder of Thomas Briggs since that is what this article is really about. Cusop Dingle (talk) 18:05, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Place of death.[edit]

The first episode of the documentary series 'Railway Murders' (Freeview channel 'Yesterday') was shown today (16th. Jul 2021). It confirms that Müller was convicted of the murder of Thomas Briggs. However, one commentator said that death occurred as a result of Briggs falling or being pushed from the train. The article says that the murder took place on the train; a more specific claim than made in the program: that it took place on the railway.

This may, or may not, be relevant to the contradictory claim at Merstham tunnels. In both cases the forensic evidence appears to include ambiguity.

RAClarke (talk) 14:40, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]