Talk:Freestyle music

older talk entries

I think that there are two types of freestyling that need to be addressed here. First is freestyle as a genre of music, which the entry addresses. The second that should be covered is Freestyling as an improvisational form of hip hop. This is the type that this baked lass refers to in her "freestyle" (I doubt she remembers writing it). I found the freestyle entry by following a link from the the wikipedia entry about the rapper Jin. Just to clear up confusion I think that both definitions of freestyle should be covered. Thank you.

www.NewYorkFreestyle.com

You're talking two different genres of music. True they are both descended ultimately from 1970s disco music, but they are still different nonetheless. I would suggest you create a new wiki entry on that.

~ bxmuchacho —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bxmuchacho (talk • contribs) 17:11, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

What about Stevie B in Hitlist?

To me Stevie B always seemed to be one of the Top10 Artists of Latin Freestyle next to Artists like Johnny O. Am I false?

--213.23.134.62 20:21, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

i think the hitlist needs an overhaul and needs to consult some charts, and reference them so that we can be a bit more objective about it. --Yoasif 22:55, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

Charts (Billboard charts etc.) themselves don't necessarily show the impact, especially in underground genres like freestyle, which from my prospective was somewhat of a word of mouth genre. Not to demean big stars from smaller ones, but Jimi Hendrix had a huge impact on music but technically he was a one-hit wonder. --Maya Levy 19 January 2006

Edited the hitlist. Infohunter 00:48, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

No you removed half the list arbitrarily. Until the time someone actually backs up artist addition/removal based on chart placement, I will revert to this consensus version of the list.  ALKIVAR™ 01:05, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree about the hit list. It's very random. Also "Together Forever" by Lisette Melendez is credited by many for reviving freestyle music in the 90s and was a big hit. Much more representive of freestyle music in this article than "Time Passes By". So I'm removing "Time Passes By" because of duplicate entry. --Bigplankton 21:28, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

"Together Forever" spent 10 weeks at the top of New York Dance charts. [1] --Bigplankton 21:43, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I added Corina's "Temptation" to the list because it peaked at #12 on Billboard Hot 100 and was a number #1 dance hit. [2]--Bigplankton 21:50, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I added Pittsburgh as a city because the gay bars here played freestlye HEAVILY in the late 80s/90s when no where but NY and Chicago or LA would.

Freestyle Artists

"Furthermore, many DJs who played the music, such as Jellybean, Tony Torres, Raul Soto and Roman Ricardo were Hispanic. However, those on stage performing the songs were not, neither were most of the producers making the music."

I think the second sentence in that quote is erroneous. If you look at the list of the most popular and well-known freestyle artists, almost all of them were of Latino/Hispanic heritage. Some others who were Italian (e.g. Anthony Monteleone of Collage and Gioia Bruno of Expose), Nocera, Laissez Faire, Shana, Tolga, Linear, Company B, Collage, Teena Marie, Joey Desimone, Dino and Pajama Party. There's a reason why Freestyle music's audiences were primarily Hispanic and Italians. Those audiences identified with the artists because the artists grew up in the same ethnic communities as their audiences and came from latin/Italian backgrounds. (The term Guido was born during this era). Artists like Information Society and Samantha Fox, Stacy Q, Rockell, Shannon and Taylor Dayne were some of the few non-Hispanic, white, non-Italian artists to gain popularity in the freestyle genre.

On a more interesting note, Freestyle music also gained some popularity among Asians and Asian Americans as well (in part because of artists like Filipina American Jocelyn Enriquez). Lots of Asian pop music (particularly J-Pop or K-Pop artists like Jinusean, Utada Hikaru, etc.) definitely were influenced by freestyle music. I went to high school in central Jersey, and had several friends in Edison. Nightclubs and social gatherings in the Edison area often play freestyle music or trance. Teknosoul02 00:40, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Jimi Hendrix a one hit wonder

I seriously doubt that - See Joel Whitburn's book on Top 40 songs. Freestyle's peak years were between 1984-1992.. Collage's I'll be loving you is the last Hot 100 chart record reaching the mid 50s or 60s in 1994 or 1995. Fans pining for freestyle's comeback are no different from people wishing for the return of glam metal, progressive rock, grunge, swing, etc. Music marches on and leaves past trends behind. Of course there are some that will integrate pieces of music of years gone by into their current repertoire. Pop music (which is currently dominated by rap) remains pretty much current. People are downloading what's out there and it's usually pop-punk (Fall Out Boy, etc), American Idol stuff, some country and mostly hip hop and hip hop r&b.

P. Diddy's rise in New York, the arrival of the Dirty South beats and then Crunk in the Southern U.S. and Gangsta Rap on the West Coast spelled the death knell for freestyle in the U.S. Sampling also made it easier to construct songs. This article is excellent and in fact very accurate.

76.199.67.153 17:57, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Don't be too sure. It is quite possible in the Hispanic community of New York and Miami where salsa music has enjoyed periods of rabid popularity only to nearly be vanquished (by merengue first, then reggaeton) and then it comes roaring back to life again. Hispanics do not look at music in a straight line or subscribe to the English market's dictation of trends. Case in point: bachata. It is HUGE now. Bachata was also huge when my great-grandmother was a young lady. My great-grandmother lived to be 113. I never met her. But I hear the style of music she would instantly recognize blaring in my neighborhood everyday.

~ bxmuchacho —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bxmuchacho (talk • contribs) 17:19, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Classics

I really think somebody who knows alot about freestyle history should make a Classics ( rival of freestyle)article...i would if i had all the 411 on that one. user:homan05

comeback

was there not a little a mini comeback of freestyle music in the late 90's particular in 97, 98 with hits like rockell and collage cant we try(98) and Jocelyn Enriquez Do You Miss Me(97)--Wikiscribe (talk) 18:49, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Kraftwerk removed!

If you want to put that in again, please have good evidence for it. For me it is nonsense: the "Numbers" piece was krafted (sic!) in 1981, when FS was not even too widely known in NYC. *If* you want to name a track, maybe go for "Musique non stop"/"Techno pop" or such stuff. But not "Numbers". -andy 92.230.14.202 (talk) 19:15, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Numbers is not a freestyle song. But there is a strong case that a lot of the early freestyle and electro pieces were influenced by Kraftwerk; think of Planet Rock and Trans-Europe Express. But the sentence also says the European artists incorporated freestyle into their own productions, which I really don't see happening with Kraftwerk. New Order is also listed in that section, and while I'm pretty sure Kraftwerk is influential, I'm less sure about the New Order songs. While a lot of the male freestyle vocals from the late 80s have a definite British-synthpop sound to them, i'm not convinced that Confusion by New Order was the model. We could mention though that some bands from that era that were considered both freestyle and synthpop, such as Information Society and Will To Power. Squidfryerchef (talk) 04:29, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Freestyle is nothing but taking electronic music and sticking latin percussion in it. Electronic music existed before "freestyle". Planet Rock is cited in this article as "Freestyle's first child", and Planet Rock is "melody from Kraftwerk's song Trans Europe Express and the beat from Kraftwerk's song Numbers." So clearly without Kraftwerk there would be no Freestyle. I'm old enough to remember hearing Freestyle for the first time and thinking it was just ripped off electronic music. Maybe it seemed new to the latin dance crowd? DavidRavenMoon (talk) 12:58, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

"Artist SHANNON - Song: LET THE MUSIC PLAY"!

Freestyle or Latin Freestyle, also called Latin Hip Hop or Heartthrob Music in its early years, is a form of electronic dance music that is heavily influenced by Black & Latin American culture. Its been known in [Miami, FL] and [New York] as Electro Hip Hop as early as 1983 with the first Electro FREESTYLE MUSIC by "Artist SHANNON - Song: LET THE MUSIC PLAY" & "GIVE ME TONIGHT", this Song made a crossover and a breakthru with the METALIX DRUM MACHINE Sounds from the Roland CR-8000 drum machine, Roland JX-3P, and Roland TB-303.

The record redefined the electro funk sound that Arthur Baker and John Rocca (who produced "I.O.U" by Freeez and "One More Shot/Get Wet" by C-Bank) developed in 1982.

This style of Electro Funk was redefined as Freestyle because of the way it was produced and mixed. Barbosa is widely credited as the genre's founder. Baker and Robie eventually copied his sound three months later on Jenny Burton's "Remember What You Like" (released three months after "Let the Music Play") Tina B's "Honey to a Bee" (1984) and the Goon Squad's "Eight Arms to Hold You" (1985).

Shannon (born Shannon Brenda Greene on 2 May 1958, in Washington, D.C.), is an American singer. She is best known for her 1983 dance-freestyle record "Let the Music Play." Under the direction of Chris Barbosa. Her album, released in February 1984 was also the first Freestyle album in Dance music history, and went gold (selling over 1 million copies at the time). Both the 12" & 7" singles where also certified Gold.

Chris Barbosa is a producer from New York who redefined electro funk as Latin freestyle in the early 1980s with Shannon's "Let the Music Play." Emergency Records wasn't signing any more artists in 1986, forcing Barbosa and Liggett to launch their own label, which was named Ligosa Records.

(DJFLEX-mk2) 12:30, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Correction to Freestyle

I had to correct a user who had falsely added that freestyle was replaced by pop music by artists like, paula abdul and (get this) will smith, which isn't true. Pop music had NOTHING to do with freestyle nor with its downfall. There is no source in the universe supporting the falsehood that pop music replaced freestyle. The truth is, freestyle was supplanted by house music, pure and simple. Through my efforts, the info now has been corrected and reflects historical significance. Thanks. 68.173.91.50 (talk) 01:54, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

"Artist SHANNON - Correction

Just to correct you, you imply that Shannon was the first freestyle artist and that her song, 'Let the Music Play', the first freeestyle song made in 1984. Nothing can be further from the truth. Technically speaking, many contend that the first freestyle song that was made was 'Planet Rock' by Soul Sonic Force in 1982. 68.173.91.50 (talk) 19:21, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Toronto Freestyle

There is no mention of Toronto's contribution to the resurgence on Freestyle music from 1990-1996; a time when many of the NY and miami artists sole performance gigs where Toronto based, embraced by toronto's Latin, Greek, Italian and Persian communities. Toronto's radio stations energy 108 (now defunt) and z103 (still active) play freestyle for a good amount of their programing. There are also a few notable Toronto freestyle artist (that later moved to a more euro sound) that should also be mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.225.142.137 (talk) 22:55, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Documentary about Freestyle?

This might be old news to some, but there's a movie about the rise of freestyle in the works from Alumbra films.[3] In too much of a hurry to get more sources and weave this into the article, but don't want to lose this title and this is something to watch. Squidfryerchef (talk) 15:25, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Needs work

The article needs some cleaning up, organizing, and citing. I've done some work but will do more when I get a chance.--Jrkso (talk) 23:54, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Of Talkbox, Chicano Rap and Freestyle

1. Isn't talkbox part of the freestyle movement?
2. Doesn't Chicano Rap use Latin Freestyle in their music? For proof, look up "Jam" and "Do It" by Lil' Rob.

"Jam"
"Do It"

ElMeroEse (talk) 23:19, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Defense of my edits

Apparently I've irritated the anonymous contributor with NYC-based IP address 108.14.212.26, so I will defend my edits, which largely (but not entirely) stand in opposition to his own edits. My edits today look major but are actually pretty benign.

The intro was several paragraphs long and needed to be split into a simple lead, a History section, and an Examples section, so I added History and Examples headings as needed. There was a bunch of text about the New York scene that was not in the New York section and didn't really belong in the intro, so I moved it there. This didn't involve removing anything, and shouldn't be a problem.

In the intro, I reworked some text to say "It was most popular around 1987, then its popularity declined as it was displaced by house music." Here's the former version of that text, interspersed with my comments:

• It was at its peak in popularity in 1987, but declined in popularity by 1988—Actually it seems to have been quite popular in 1986 and 1988 as well; 1989 was the year it really started sinking. So I feel "around 1987" is better, until we get some reliable sources, as required by the WP:V policy, to back up these claims.
• ...as it was displaced by disco-influenced House music, its polar opposite.—Calling house freestyle's "opposite", and adding the word "polar" for emphasis, is just hyperbolic editorializing. House and freestyle do have different influences & roots, but they're not opposites. I do, however, believe it's worth mentioning that house's disco basis sets it apart from freestyle's electro-funk basis. This is just not the place to do it. More on that below.
• ...Many critics—This is a violation of the WP:AWW policy. Don't talk about "some" or "many" people unless you can cite the sources that confirm it.
• ...allude to House music being the reincarnation of the 70s disco that overthrew Freestyle's modern electro sound of the 80s.—See above. Also do you have some examples of these "many critics" who say these things?
• ...Overall, this represented an unfortunate regression in the music genre.—pure editorializing. This kind of comment has no place in an encyclopedia. How is "unfortunate" ever neutral?
• ...House music was the pivotal force—hyperbole.
• ...that signaled an end to the 80s music and style in general, including Freestyle.—It was already said that house overtook freestyle. Why say it again? Emphasis through repetition? Why "signaled"? I would think you'd want to say house "brought about" the end of freestyle['s popularity]. And "an end to the 80s music and style in general" is hyperbolic. House did not end all music styles of the 1980s. No need for this sentence at all.

The historical info contained the same kinds of problems, so I addressed those issues in the same way, tightening up the text, toning down the emphasis on 1987, getting rid of weasel words like "some may argue", and starting to reduce redundancy (how many ways do we need to say that house killed freestyle? Fewer than we do now!)...and I injected words like "syncopated" to talk about freestyle and "disco rhythms" to contrast it with house. I did this to address the question of how freestyle's nemesis, house music, represented a different sound, not just different influences. The fact that freestyle is based on syncopated percussion is mentioned later in the article and shouldn't be contentious.

If you have specific concerns about these edits, you need to assume good faith and engage in civil discussion here about what you're trying to communicate in the article and why its current text isn't doing a good enough job. Edit wars and unexplained rollbacks are not the way to go about it. —mjb (talk) 05:49, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

regarding the rewrite of the paragraph @ line 92

Nicely written, but maybe without all the unnecessary details? I see that Mike Cornette and Steve Sylvester (who, outside of the NYC area would know who they are?) and others are mentioned and a specific date at the Coda in 2004. It appears as a little self promotion (pat on the back). I feel this is unnecessary for a Wikipedia article. DJghr1 (talk) 2 Aug 2011 (UTC)

compressing and chopping this article?

This article is in serious need of being compressed. It really doesn't need so many sub-categories (such as Toronto Freestyle, for instance) and is far too long and boring. The basics and beginnings and how it ended, and that's it..wham, bam, chop chop. There's far too many names and unknowns written in the article, and so much unnecessary garbage. No wonder it has a "start class" rating. I may consider re-writing but if someone who feels they can rewrite it from a neutral point of view wants to tackle it, feel free! Don't forget to keep the sources and citations! DJghr1 (talk) 8 Aug 2011 (UTC)

AOL Radio

The article should mention that this music can be listened to on AOL Radio's "80s Dance" station.(I smoke hashish (talk) 02:25, 27 December 2011 (UTC))