Talk:Gamal Abdel Nasser

His books

Should we have articles about his books?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 23:28, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

nasser's dates?

the info box at the side and the dates within the article all conflict on when nasser actually assumed power as president. please can someone find the info from a scholarly source and clarify the dates in this article? 198.103.53.5 (talk) 18:32, 2 December 2009 (UTC)xfireworksx

The dates used in the article body are from book sources. I got the dates in the infobox from the List of Prime Ministers of Egypt. I will double-check to see which dates are the correct one. As for the president part: there is no conflict between the infobox and the body. Nasser officially became president on June 23, 1956 even though he had real power in 1954 when he ousted Naguib. --Al Ameer son (talk) 01:51, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Resignation

He resigned on the 9th. http://encyclopedia.stateuniversity.com/pages/8182/Gamal-Abdel-Nasser.html http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2007/848/sc5.htm

I will work to find better sources later and then I will revise the artice. dynam001 19:48, 17 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dynamo152 (talk • contribs)

Comments

Dear Al Ameer Son, I've been busy with finals, tomorrow is my last one, here are some things that need to be verified:

• "Gamal Abdel Nasser's daughter, Hoda, said she was not informed of her family's lineage, but suspects the claim of its Arabian descent to be accurate."--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 08:26, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Aburish interviewed her for the biography. The information is found on page 12 of his book. It's not necessary to include her view so if you feel it should be removed, have at it. --Al Ameer son (talk) 20:26, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

• The infobox is too long and makes problems in the images of the personal life section. --Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 08:26, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I didn't know what to include and what not to so I just put in as much as possible. Cut down where you feel necessary. --Al Ameer son (talk) 20:26, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

• No need for stating when his children were born (We don't have the information and it's not that relevant). --Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 08:26, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

That's fine with me. I should start editing again within the coming days. --Al Ameer son (talk) 20:26, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Gamal Abdel Nasser/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Canadian Paul 01:09, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

I will be reviewing this article very shortly, but I just wanted to set up the review page now. Canadian Paul 01:09, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Overall, a very good article. Some comments:

1. Could the caption on the picture in the infobox be more descriptive? Perhaps some information on when it was taken? Right now it's not very informative, as it's obvious that it's a picture of Abdel Nasser if it's the lead picture of the infobox
2. The fourth external link is just a bare URL, which needs to be fixed, particularly as it is a foreign language site and not everyone can just click on it and figure out what it is.

   done--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

3. WP:SURNAME is going to be a tricky in this article, since Arabic names do not easily fall into the "given name - surname" pattern, but I do have one question - since "Abdel" means "servant of" in Arabic, can it be separated from "Nasser" in English usage? In other words, in all the instances where it is stated that "Nasser did X" or "Nasser said Y", shouldn't it be "Abdel Nasser did X" instead?

   In this case Nasser is acceptable since he is commonly referred to as Nasser and Abdel can just be skipped. Various books just refer to him as [Nasser http://books.google.com/books?q=Nasser&btnG=Search+Books].--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

4. Under "Influences" - "According to Aburish..." - You haven't introduced Aburish yet so the reader has no basis of understanding why this person's opinion is important or relevant. Is he a personal friend? A biographer? A historian? All of these can affect the reader's opinion of what follows and this becomes particularly important later when you're using him a source for information that differs from the norm.(e.g. "Aburish states, however, that he and Amer were posted to the Sudan in 1941.")

   Said Aburish is an American Palestinian journalist and writer... I'm not sure now if he qualifies as a historian as much as Nutting.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

5. Under "Family" - "Tahia's parents had died in Tahia's early life" - At least one, if not both, of these "Tahia's" could be replaced with a pronoun

   done--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

6. Under "1948 Arab-Israeli War" - "During the war, he wrote of the unpreparedness of the army, saying "our soldiers were dashed against fortifications."" - As this contains a direct quote, it requires a direction citation.

   done--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

7. Under "Free Officers", third paragraph, same problem with "According to Sadat, Nasser decided to wage "a large scale assassination campaign.""

   done--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

8. First sentence under the third paragraph of "1952 Coup", same problem.

   done

9. Under "Disputes with Naguib", third paragraph, "The RCC then "joyfully...proclaimed Nasser as Prime Minister";[50] Soon after, large numbers of citizens joined protests demanding that Naguib be reinstated." - There's a grammar problem here... either that semicolon should be a period or "soon" should not be capitalized.

   fixed with period.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

10. Under "Assuming the presidency", fourth paragraph, the final sentence requires a citation.

    done moved the reference to the end of paragraph after checking the book on Google books.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

11. Under "Nationalization of the Suez Canal", direct quote issue with "the Eden government of Britain was agitated by Egyptian campaigns undermining the Baghdad Pact which Nasser viewed as disrupting "Arab solidarity.""

    done--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

12. Under "Suez Crisis", first paragraph - "After this agreement, "Nasser estimated that the danger of invasion had dropped to 10 percent." He was wrong, however, because shortly thereafter, Britain, France, and Israel colluded in a secret agreement to take over the Suez Canal and occupy parts of Egypt." - This seems a bit off to me because "He was wrong" seems to be worded as a personal opinion, or at the very least it stands out compared to how well the rest of the article has been written thus far. It could be argued, for example, that he was not wrong, because he still thought that there was a chance that it could happen. Perhaps it might be more neutral to stick with "Shortly thereafter, however, ..."

    fixed through replacing by "Shortly thereafter, however, ...".--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

13. Same paragraph, there's a hidden note - their attempts to cover it in diplomacy - which is true.
14. Under "Pan-Arabism", first paragraph, direct quote issue with "Nasser berated Hussein on his Cairo-based Voice of the Arabs radio station, accusing him of being "a tool of the imperialists.""

    done--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

15. Under "Influence on neighboring Arab countries", direct quote issue with "stated that "any attack on Iraq was tantamount to an attack on the UAR.""

    done--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

16. Same section, second paragraph, the big quote definitely needs a direct citation. Also, if it's such an important quote, you may want to highlight it in quote box rather than copy it into the prose of the article, as it does somewhat disrupt the flow of the paragraph.

    created quotation box--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

17. Under "Revival on the Arab stage", second paragraph, direct quote issue with "Nasser berated the attendees for being "phony nationalists" and constantly changing direction."

    done--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

18. Under "Internal dissent and shifts in policy", direct quote issue with the first sentence.

    done--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

19. Same section, the first, third, and fourth paragraphs greatly overuse dashes in places where commas could be used instead, which becomes very distracting to the flow. In one place ("Nasser used his influence with al-Azhar to create changes in the syllabus—which trickled to the lower levels of Egyptian education, allow gender-mixed schools, introduce evolution as an acceptable subject matter to discuss, amend divorce laws, and merge religious courts into civil ones") it ruins the verb tenses of the sentence. Overall, through the entire article, I think that fewer dashes would be beneficial for flow.

    fixed--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

20. Same section, fourth paragraph, direct quote issue with "Nasser blamed the lack of unity among the Arab states for what he deemed as "the disastrous situation" regarding the water diversion scheme."

    done--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

21. Same section, fifth paragraph, direct quote issue with "Qutb wrote a book from his jail cell condemning Nasser as the representative of a "new age of ignorance""

    fixed--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

22. Under "Six-Day War", first paragraph, direct quote issue with "After the blockade, he gave a speech to the United Nations General Assembly on 29 May saying, "the issue was not UNEF or closing the Strait of Tiran; the issue is the rights of the Palestinian people.""

    done--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

23. Same section, third paragraph, direct quote issue with "It was here, that the simmering conflict between Nasser and Amer came into the open when, according to present officers, they burst into "a non-stop shouting match.""

    done--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

24. Under "Resignation and aftermath", first paragraph, you might consider my previous advice regarding big and important quotes.

    done--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

25. Under "War of Attrition and later life", third paragraph, direct quote issue with "The attending heads of states launched verbal denunciations against each other, while Nasser pleaded with Arafat and Hussein "to stop it.""

    done--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

26. Under "Death and funeral", first paragraph, direct quote issue with "As a testament to his unchallenged leadership of the Arab people, following his death, a Beirut-based newspaper stated, "One hundred million human beings—the Arabs—are orphans.""

    done--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

27. Under "Legacy", second paragraph, the final two sentences require citation.

    removed not mentioned in source.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

28. Same section, third paragraph, "Traditional Western political scientists claim his largely charismatic and direct relationship with the Egyptian people "rendered intermediary organizations and individuals unnecessary."" - Aside from the direct quote issue, what are "traditional Western political scientists".

    fixed--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

29. Under "Nasser vs. Sadat", direct quote issue with ""I have come to you along the path of Gamal Abdel Nasser and I believe that your nomination of me to assume the responsibility of the presidency is a nomination for me to continue the path of Nasser.""

    done--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

There's other, more minor punctuation/grammatical issues. I've fixed a couple of them along the way, but mostly these would be concerns for a FA, rather than a GA, nomination. I may also have to go over the last few sections again after all of these issues have been cleared up, as one tends to miss/ignore more things when they've been reviewing for a long time. Anyhow, to allow for these changes to be made I am placing the article on hold for a period of up to a week. I'm always open to discussion on any of the items, so if you think I'm wrong on something leave your thoughts here and we'll discuss. I'll be checking this page at least daily, unless something comes up, so you can be sure I'll notice any comments left here. Canadian Paul 03:35, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

I fixed many of the issues, please review if they are correct. I'm not sure if I fixed the direct quote problems correctly. I put the references that were at the end of the paragraph which contained the quote to the end of the sentence of the quote.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:42, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

I'll take a look over it a little later tonight, when I have a bit more time! Canadian Paul 16:35, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the direct quotations, yes, that is exactly what I was looking for! So the only important thing remaining is the little hidden note after "their attempts to cover it in diplomacy" - I think if you just removed this (it's not too important) that would take care of the issue. There's also the picture caption, but I'm not going to fail this article over either of those issues, so I believe that the time has come to pass this as a Good Article - there's only ever been one other article that I reviewed for GA that I enjoyed as much as this one, and I have to say that I learned more about Abdel Nasser here than I did in any of my university courses. The next time someone makes fun of Wikipedia for its quality, I will be pointing them here as evidence to the contrary. So congratulations and thank you for all your hard work - good luck getting it to FA if that's your goal! Canadian Paul 23:27, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the encouraging words and the aim is FA, but I'm afraid to proceed to a nomination before a thorough review on FA quality. I'll improve the article as much as possible then proceed to an FA nomination. Thanks again.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 07:56, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Miles Copeland info needs verification

It's about time someone corrects the record and tell something about what did really go on prior to the 23rd of July,1952; The US musician and the CIA agent Miles Copeland played a major role in directing and supervising the Free Officers in their preparations for the coup. The US policy towards the Middle East during the Roosevelt administration geared towards picking the right leaders in all Arab Nations, starting by initiating series of military coups in Syria, where the power shifting from one military officer to another took place at rapid repetition, and some leaders governed for a few months before another coup sends them home or jailed them indefinitely. In Iraq, Abdulkareem Qassim led a military coup which changed Iraq's government style for decades to come, but was also taken down by another coup. He too was trialed and was found guilty of treason, and later was executed by a death squad. Nasir was picked to become Egypt's leader months before the coup, but was not scheduled to take the role of the nation's leader until Najeeb was found unfit to adhere to the CIA's agenda to the fullest measures. Nasir continued to control a balanced foreign and internal policy in Egypt until his death in the 70s. His role extended beyond the Egyptian boundaries to reach out other Arab nations like Jordan, Syria, Iraq and others, and while the US administration saw in him a favorable key Arab leader, he was seen as an Arab nationalist by Arabs, a status he achieved by unprecedented propaganda using Radio Cairo and Egypt's powerful press. His anti-American false propaganda made him sound like a hero to peoples of most of the Arab nations, coupled by his friendly approach to the Soviets, and to his leading role in the establishment of the non-alliance group of nations, added to his staged animosity to the Jewish state, all consequences showed him to be a different person to what he really was. Arabs to this day may never find him guilty of initiating a war with the Israelis that he himself could not foresee winning in any way or shape, and even when he made his address to the Egyptians upon surrendering to the Israelis, and when he assumed his fullest responsibility of the war's outcomes, Egyptians were passionate enough to demonstrate in the streets of Cairo and other Egyptians cities begging him to reconsider his decision to give up his presidency.{citation: pages 57-133, Game of Nations by Miles Copeland III. Published by Simon & Schuster, NY, 1969. ISBN 671-20532-3}

This needs verification before being displayed on the article--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 13:58, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Name

I have added all the previously written transcriptions of his name, so as, I wrote DIN 31635 standard, in a hidden comment.

''{{unicode|Gamāl or Jamāl ‘Abd an-Nāṣir}}''/''{{unicode|Gamāl ‘Abd an-Nāṣir}}''
{{transl|DIN|Ǧamāl ʿAbd al-Nāṣir}} All fail to represent pronunciation

However, they all fail to transcribe or transliterate the name. There is no standard I know of which succeeds in transliterating/transcribing Egyptian Arabic phonology or at least approximating it. All the standards there: Romanization of Arabic#Comparison table are only made for Modern Standard Arabic, lacking Modern Standard Arabic pronunciation in Egypt and other regional standard pronunciations elsewhere. But, the problem is that names in Egypt aren't normally transcribed or pronounced with any of those standards (Romanization of Arabic#Comparison table), so as those standards distort how Egyptian names are pronounced. (The same applies to other varieties of Arabic names' pronunciations)

This is how his name is normally pronounced: [ɡæˈmæːl ʕæbdenˈnɑːsˤeɾ]. Attempting to use ALA-LC standard, would be Jamāl ‘Abd al-Nāṣir. ALA-LC problem is, it ignores [ɡ], as well as, failing to represent [e]. DIN 31635 also has its problems, its letter: ǧ suggests that ج has other possibilities of pronunciations rather than [ɡ] only, as well as, failing to represent [e].

DIN 31635 or other ways might be appropriate to transliterate Modern Standard Arabic or possibly other spoken varieties of Arabic, but not all of them, especially Egyptian Arabic. The only way I found to provide proper pronunciation for Egyptian names is by IPA. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 12:57, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

PKK in 1957?

The article states: "Later in 1957, Turkish troops massed along the border with Syria, accusing it of harboring PKK Rebels." but the PKK was founded 1978. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.131.159.196 (talk) 17:25, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Fixed. Actually, restored. The article originally said "Turkish Communists" not the PKK. Another editor or IP user replaced it falsely with "PKK." --Al Ameer son (talk) 21:39, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Symbol Of Arab Freedom

I have deleted this statement

Although his status as "leader of the Arabs" was badly damaged by the Israeli victory over the Arab armies in the Six-Day War, many in the general Arab population still view Nasser as a symbol of Arab dignity and freedom.

for the following reasons

• POV
• unsourced and an opinated (yes that what even the writer states it as) is not a strong enough source
• Nasser turned Egypt into a Police state
• In Lybia opposition were raising pictures of the former King who was booted by the Pan-Arabist Gaddaffi so the writer's opinion is obviously biased especially when oposition in Syria are OPPOSING a pan-arabist government.
• Because nasser a country as big as Egypt lost Sinai to the Israelis for several years and could only retrieve it back through negotiation . It's said that this humiliation is partly what killed him.

now I don't want to go into an edit war just stating some points here. Nasser was not a democrat--♥Yasmina♥ (talk) 21:52, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Nasser was a dictator, but he is still regarded by many Egyptians as a symbol of freedom (i.e. self-government) for his role in breaking from Britain and France and nationalising the Suez Canal. It is entirely true that his image was badly damaged by the defeat of the Arab armies in the Six Day War in 1967, together with the subsequent stalemate in the War of Attrition, but he is still praised for his earlier achievements. As for what killed him, I would imagine continuing to smoke like a chimney after suffering two heart attacks had a lot more to do with his early death than losing the Sinai. (92.7.25.247 (talk) 21:05, 25 July 2011 (UTC))

He is regarded by many Arabs (mainly Palestinians and other arab nationalists) as a hero or symbolic figure for their fight against Israel and western colionazation. but for it be allowed to imply he represent's freedom is POV and utter fantasy. to say someone who TOOK AWAY many intellectual freedoms Egyptians had in terms of theory and religion (he expelled all the jews) had and turned the country into a one-party is a personification of what an Arab concieves as freedom is twisted. He does not represent freedom in any format of freedom is revision. Also the POV shouldnt be allowed. I seriously want to avoid another edit war the source from Al-Jazeera is opinionated and dreams of the revival of a dying (thank goodness!) ideology when their are many factors that contradict Lamis's opioion. --♥Yasmina♥ (talk) 21:52, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Your personal feelings do not trump what a reliable source says. Please do not continue to remove sourced content, and please do not continue to misuse this talk page as a soapbox for your political beliefs. Much of what you wrote above is patently false. Nasser did not expel all Jews. Finally, NPOV requires the inclusion of POVs that have been published in reliable sources. You cannot demand that a POV be excluded. If there are other views in reliable sources that dispute these they should also be included. If you wan to avoid an edit-war do not edit-war. You have repeatedly removed sourced material. Stop doing so. nableezy - 14:24, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

File:Nasser Gaddafi 1969.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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June 1956 election

Should it not be mentioned that the election of June 1956 was massively rigged in Nasser's favour? (92.7.0.36 (talk) 16:47, 14 December 2011 (UTC))

Propagandist phrasing

"heralded a new period of modernization, and socialist reform in Egypt together with a profound advancement of pan-Arab nationalism"

This is pure propaganda. His "modernisation" institutionalised military rule, something Egypt is still struggling to escape from. His "socialist reform" bankrupted the country, leaving it heavily dependent first on Soviet aid and now on US aid, and his "profound advancement of pan-Arab nationalism" (which is by the way a contradiction in terms, since pan-Arabism is an anti-nationalist idea) amounted to a futile war in Yemen, failed unification projects with Syria, Libya and Sudan (none of whom wanted to be ruled by the Egyptian Army), and the 1967 war, largely caused by his inflated rhetoric and resulting in total defeat. Nasser's dictatorship was the greatest disaster to befall Egypt in modern times, and while the article can't of course say that in so many words, it can at least avoid lies like the passage I have quoted. Intelligent Mr Toad (talk) 05:00, 29 January 2012 (UTC)