|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Ganesh Chaturthi article.|
|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
|A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day... section on September 7, 2005, August 27, 2006, September 15, 2007, September 3, 2008, August 23, 2009, September 11, 2010, September 1, 2011, and August 29, 2014.|
Removed this section. Did not seem to have relevance to the festival per say. May be relevant to the ganesha article. Also no references provided.
The origin of the festival lies in the Holy Hindu scriptures which tell the story of Lord Ganpati . Lord Ganesha (or Ganapati) (the names mean "Lord [isha] or [pati] of Shiva's hosts [gana]") was created by Goddess Parvati, consort of Lord Shiva.
According to the legend, Lord Shiva, the Hindu God of resolution, was away at a war. His wife Parvati, wanted to bathe. Having no one to guard the door to her house, she conceived of the idea of creating a son who could guard her. Parvati created Ganesha out of the sandalwood paste that she used for her bath and breathed life into the figure. She then set him to stand guard at her door and instructed him not to let anyone enter.
In the meantime, Lord Shiva returned from the battle, but as Ganesha did not know him Ganesha stopped Shiva from entering Parvati's chamber. Shiva, enraged by Ganesh’s impudence, drew his trident and cut off Ganesha's head. Parvati emerged to find Ganesha decapitated and flew into a rage. She took on the form of the Goddess Kali and threatened destruction of the three worlds, heaven, earth and the subterranean.
Parvati was in a dangerous mood and, seeing her in this mood, the other gods were afraid. Shiva, in an attempt to pacify Parvati, sent his ganas, or hordes, to find a child whose mother is facing away from the child in negligence, to cut off the child's head and return quickly with it. The first living thing they came across was an elephant facing north, the auspicious direction associated with wisdom, so they returned with the head of the elephant. Shiva placed it on the headless body of Parvati's son and breathed life into him. Parvati was overjoyed and embraced her son, the elephant-headed boy whom Shiva named Ganesha, the lord of his ganas. Parvati was still upset, however, so Lord Shiva announced that everyone who worships Ganesha before any other form of God is favoured. This is why Ganesh is worshipped first at all Hindu occasions and festivals.""
Was the immersion always a part of Ganesh Chaturthi?
Lokmanya Tilak started the submerging act, but why? More research is required. It was not a religious practice previously to immerse the deity's idols.
Ganesh Chaturthi & Ganesh festival
Pls. note that Ganesh festival and Ganesh Chaturthi are seperate things. Ganesh Charturthi is the single day which comes on the 4th day of Bhadrapada month as per Hindu calendar which is been celebrated as Ganesh sthapana in India. This is an improtant day where the pooja is performed at home. The prasad of Modak is offered to Ganesha on that day.
Ganesh festival is festival which lasts for 10/11 days. The festival starts on Ganesh Charturthi and ends on Anant Chaturdashi. This festival is widely celebrated in India and some parts outside India as well. Some poeple celebrate Ganesh festival for 2, 5, 7 or 10 days depending upon the rituals and the area they are staying. There are many programs which are planned and celebrated during Ganesh festival. On the last day i.e. on Anant Chaturdashi, Ganesh idol are immersed in the sea or nearby lakes and rivers. There is a big celebration on that day where there is long q for performing this.
Looking at this background, we must have two seperate articles. If any body has any issue, pls. let me know. You may help me in improving the content in both the articles. Thanks Coolgama (talk) 11:32, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
- Most books and encyclopaedias have 1 entry on Ganesh Chaturthi and Ganesh festival since the rituals like modak, puja are the same. , , . Ganesh Chaturthi is the central day and beginning of Ganesh festival. Having two articles will unnecessary repetition. --Redtigerxyz Talk 15:21, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
Redtiger , I agree with coolgama that there should be two separate articles. One should be on the domestic / private celebrations and the other on the Public celebrations (Sarvajanik Ganeshotsav) introduced by Lokmanya Tilak in 1890s.Jonathansammy (talk) 16:37, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
- Jonathansammy, the split you are suggesting is not what coolgama is suggesting. Both Ganesh Chaturthi (1 day) and Ganesh festival (10 days including Ganesh Chaturthi) should have sections on public and private celebrations for comprehensiveness. Redtigerxyz Talk 16:44, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, Ganesha Chaturthi technically refers to a particular day in the Hindu calendar, but Ganesha Chaturthi (or Ganesha Chaturthi Festival) is also commonly used to refer to to the multiple-day celebrations that begin on that day. We can tweak the language of the article to make sure that this is clear, but this does not justify content forking since the two festivals are intrinsically linked and discussed together in sources (as Redtigerxyz points out above).
- For the same reason I don't see how we can split the article along the public/private celebration lines. Since the festival is clearly associated with both an article on Ganesha Chaurthi will necessarily have to discuss both (just as Christmas discusses both the religious and commercial aspects of the celebration; to do otherwise would be POV Splitting). Now, I could imagine a scenario in which we have so much material about the public celebrations started by Tilak, that we split that into its own sub-article as per Summary Style, but (1) even in that case the main Ganesha Chaturthi article would contain discussion of the public celebration, and (2) we are not facing that situation yet! Abecedare (talk) 01:08, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
Hi, I am sorry but this confusion has happened due to less attention paid by people on this topic earlier. India had a rich festival culture and has many important days in Hindu calendar. Let me try to elaborate more.
Ganesh festival is festival which lasts for 11 days. It starts on Ganesh Chaturthi and ends with Anant Chaturdashi. The various days in that are as follows:
Bhadrapad Shuddha Chaturthi (4)- Ganesh Chaturthi (Ganesh welcome) Bhadrapad Shuddha Panchami (5)- Rishi Panchami Bhadrapad Shuddha Shashthi (6)- Gauri Aavahan (Gauri welcome) Bhadrapad Shuddha Saptami (7)- Gauri Poojan (Gauri Pooja and lunch) Bhadrapad Shuddha Ashtami (8)- Gauri Gaman (Gauri sending back) Bhadrapad Shuddha Chaturdashi (14)- Anant Chaturdashi - Ganesh immersed in the sea (Ganesha going back)
There are 2 parts of this. Celebration at home (domestic / private) and celebration in public. Let me talk more about HOME CELEBRATION (domestic / private) first.
In most parts of India the above specific days 5,6,7 & 8 are celebrated as a part of Ganesh festival and some places separate. Ganesh idol is there at home and still these 4 days are celebrated. There are different cultures and traditions which are followed at home. Some keep Ganesha at home for 1& half day, some keep 3 days, some keep 5 days, some immerse along with Gauri (5 or 6 days depending on actual tithi), some keep 7 days and rest all keeps till 11 days and immerse on Anant Chaturdashi. During those days, daily pooja in the morning and evening is performed in the presence of all family members and Prasad is distributed. The first day “Ganesh Chaturthi” and the last day “Anant Chaturdashi” are the most important days of Ganesh festival. On Ganesh Chaturthi, there is pooja called Pratishthapana is performed in the home which lasts more than 2 hours and been done against the narration of Poojari (priest)
Now let me talk about PUBLIC CELEBRATION for Ganesh festival. Ganesh festival in Public celebration form (Sarvajanik Ganeshotsav) introduced by Lokmanya Tilak in 1890s. This was primarily done to gather people at the common place and get attention of people during British Raj. In Sarvajanik Ganeshotsav, apart from domestic / private Ganesh idol, another (additional) idol is been brought and kept in the public place (specially erected temporary structures mandapas (pandals) in every locality) and Pratishthapana is performed on Ganesh Chaturthi. There is big gathering of people and they make a chain which is called Miravnook to bring Ganesh till pandal on Ganesh Chaturthi. During that time, the various lectures of known personalities, cultural programs, dance festivals are arranged in every locality). On the last day i.e. on Anant Chaturdashi, there is another Miravnook from Pandol till river / sea to immerse Ganesh idol. The Sarvajanik Ganeshotsav was continued even after India got independence and it has taken a big shape during last 110 years. It also drives a major economy in India and we should talk more on that.
Pls. note that every day in Hindu calendar has got immense importance and some rituals are attached to it. We just need to understand and add rightly in the Wikipedia articles. I suggest, we should have below articles on English Wikipedia and we have enough references currently available (since Ganesh festival is currently going on)- 1. Ganesh Chaturthi 2. Anant Chaturdashi 3. Ganesh festival (domestic / private) 4. Ganesh festival (public) - Sarvajanik Ganeshotsav
I request everybody to contribute in making these articles as we need to give right and authentic information to the world as far as Hindu days/ festivals. Appreciate your support in this.
- Coolgama, I don't disagree with your description of the various aspects of Ganesha Chaturthi. All this should be included and explained on the Ganesha Chaturthi page. Later on, if the details of any of the sub-topics is unduly lengthy, they can be spun off into separate articles leaving a shorter summary here (see Summary style), but a general reader reader should not have to read multiple articles to understand the basics.
- I'd encourage you to work on Ganesha Chaturthi page, which currently is pretty poorly written and organized, and add to it the material you mention above (with references, of course!). Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 16:56, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
- Also see, WP:AVOIDSPLIT. Again to be clear: my suggestion is to develop this page and then create sub-articles (if necessary) instead of fragmenting the topic from the get go. Abecedare (talk) 17:01, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
- The proposal of 4 articles is odd. Anant Chaturdashi has a distinct identity apart from Ganesha visarjan as a day of Vishnu worship, similarly Rishi Panchami has a distinct identity related to adoration of Hindu sages. Jyestha Gauri (the days not not linked to tithi as suggested to coolgama, to the nakshastra Jyestha appearance) can be split as though it is part of Ganesha festivities in many households, she - when identified with Mahalakshmi rather than Ganesha's mother Parvati - is sometimes worshipped without Ganesha. 1, 3, 4 are all part of 1 festival. Most books call the entire 10-day period as festival of Ganesha Chaturthi, and rarely Ganesha festival. We should follow what RS do. Some RS links are already given above. Redtigerxyz Talk 17:22, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
- Referencing from incorrect source has become a common now a days of Wikipedia. So even if I tell the turth no body is going to accept this as I do not have sufficient sourcs in English language. If you want to show the incorrect information to the world its your call but this is not going to help English Wikipedia any further. If somebody is giving the right information, just by showing some referecnes, the truth does not change. I expect wikipediaons to work with right information and not wrong but referecned information. I am closing this topic from my side and will work on some differnet one.... sorry. Coolgama (talk) 05:02, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
Most books cover the Ganesh festival under Ganesha Chaturthi article and do not have two separate articles.
- The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Hinduism: A-M
- Fasts & Festivals Of India
- Religious Celebrations: An Encyclopedia of Holidays, Festivals ...
- Religions of the World: A Comprehensive Encyclopedia of Beliefs and ...
- Let's Know Festivals of India
- Festivals Of India
- History, Religion and Culture of India
- Using Festivals to Inspire and Engage Young Children: A Month-by-month Guide
- Lonely Planet
Separate article is needed in my opinion for ganesh festival
- See the related discussion above, or did you have some different point to make? Abecedare (talk) 17:56, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
- Some references