Talk:Gary Kleck

US or world-wide?

Would that be gun control just in the US or world-wide?

The article makes clear now that he is an expert on gun control in the USA. NDM (talk) 23:07, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Anonymous link

The linked citation disputing the efficacy of gun self defence [1] needs to be identified in some way. soverman April 23/07: 02:40 UTC

Removal of sourced info

Someone removed this, which is sourced, can someone explain?

By the Kleck study, however, most successful preventions of victimizations are accomplished without a shot being fired, which are not counted as a self-defense firearm usage by either the Hemenway or McDowell studies.<ref>{{cite book |title=Guns, Crime, and Freedom |publisher=Regnery Publishing, Inc., Washington, DC |author= LaPierre, Wayne |pages=p. 23 |date=1994}}</ref>

Arthur (talk) 20:18, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I don's see any reason to delete that statement. Assuming for the sake of discussion that this factual statement is true, it would be a major rebuttal of the cited contrary studies. Failure to include episodes in which the display of a firearm (without firing) was sufficient to terminate a criminal attack would be a fatal logical deficiency of any study which purported to analyze use of firearms for defensive purposes, especially as the evidence suggests that the vast majority of defensive gun use episodes do NOT involve the weapon being fired. I feel that the original statement from the LaPierre book should be reinstated. NDM (talk) 23:04, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it should definitely be re-instated, assuming no one else has already done so (in which case I will probably do so).KevinOKeeffe (talk) 22:50, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Don't re-instate it...that would make the article accurate, not biased, and thus inconsistent with typical Wikipedia style. 68.83.72.162 (talk) 07:21, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Often Kleck's critics point to the FBI UCR table of justifiable homicides, ~170 per year shooting death of a felon during commission of a felony by a citizen as listed by police report (ignoring eventual adjudication by the courts). Prof. Marvin "I hate guns" Wolfgang pointed out that when and where shooting homicides were tracked through the the judicial system, 20% to 30% were found to be in self-defense. Kleck estimated the FBI UCR table under-reports justifible homicide by 4 times to 7 times the actual number, simply by not tracking homicide or manslaughter through the judicial system (which of course is not a function of Uniform Crime Reports which focuses on reportes by police, not by judicial systems). Kleck points out that for every dead felon there are over a thousand successful defensive gun uses without a dead felon (woundings, misses, warning shots, brandishment, or verbal "Back off I have a gun" warning).Naaman Brown (talk) 13:04, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

neutrality is disputed

As of 3 Feb 2009: One sentence on bio. One sentence on career in field. Six sentences on criticism. Two references: one a critical article and one a book by the author (who has written much more than that). 76.7.179.74 (talk) 15:48, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

OK two of the lines under "Criticism" actual fit under "impact" header following model of Paul Samuelson article. One sentence on bio. One sentence on career in field. Four sentences on criticism. Two sentences on impact of his work. Naaman Brown (talk) 02:02, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

The FSU defense survey was debunked, but it's presented here as reliable

The FSU defense survey was a phone survey of 5,000 people. Further study showed that the people that responded to the study overstated their use of firearms in self defense, basically destroying the foundation of the study. Yet here it's presented as reliable? Why?

The WP article only states the results of the survey. Also "debunked" and "basically destroyed" is overstatement. As the Kleck & Gertz 1995 study itself pointed out in Table 1, there were ten national surveys (some conducted by pro-control groups) that gave 764,000 to 3.6 million defensive gun uses (DGUs): Kleck & Gertz got ~2.4 million. All those surveys had questioning protocols that measured different things. Further study? Kleck & Gertz 1995 article admitted there may be a false positive bias in their question protocol (just as there is an alleged false negative bias in the NCVS survey question protocol: "Most NCVS respondents never have a chance to answer the DGU question, falsely or otherwise."--Cook & Ludwig 1997 NSPOF survey.) Kleck & Gertz urged caution in evaluating all these surveys, including their own. On the other hand, gun-hater Marvin Wolfgang commenting on the Kleck & Gertz 1995 article expressed "admiration for the care and caution expressed in this article and this research".

Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Fall 1995, Vol 86 No 1.

Northwestern University, School of Law; Guns and Violence Symposium.

Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun," p. 150

Marvin E. Wolfgang, "A Tribute to a View I Have Opposed," p.188

Naaman Brown (talk) 20:21, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

An empirical study of this type of research shows that DGU survey work is an unsettled area of research, that all work in the field has its faults, that Kleck himself identfied short comings and suggested improvements. National Academy of Sciences, "Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review", NAS 2004, NAP 2005. Chapter 5 The Use of Firearms to Defend Against Criminals. -- Naaman Brown (talk) 03:32, 13 December 2011 (UTC)