Talk:Gautama Buddha

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Wikipedia has another long section on the Buddha, with info. that could be included here.[edit]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_Buddhism#The_Buddha

It is believed that his real name is Gautam Buddha in Nepal, not Gautama Buddha[edit]

I saw some areas in the article which says Gautama Buddha. Con you make it Gautama Buddha or Gautam Buddha. I would also like you to add this link. http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/666 I saw Maya written in the Article, it should be Maya Devi And this is the Maya Devi Temple http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/666/gallery/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by GauravDhital (talkcontribs) 02:11, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

@GauravDhital: As I noted on your talk page, WP:COMMONNAME is the policy we follow here, not the beliefs of one nation. There are 11.6K hits for "Gautam Buddha" in Google Books and 127K hits for "Gautama Buddha". "Maya" seems to be properly used and the link you suggest is already present as a reference. --NeilN talk to me 02:22, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2014[edit]

The external links in this article seem a little sparse considering the wealth of good pages/sites on Buddha available on the web. I'd suggest adding the following, at a minimum:

http://www.universaltheosophy.com/bios/gautama-buddha/ This page includes links to several English translations of traditional biographies, along with modern bios, etc. Great resources. The same site has a comprehensive bio that covers all the main stages of the Buddha's life based on traditional texts. http://www.universaltheosophy.com/buddha-the-life-of-siddhartha-gautama/

I'd also suggest a link to the excellent PBS documentary on the Buddha: http://www.pbs.org/thebuddha/

A link to the Light of Asia would also be helpful, as it stands as one of the most beautiful outlines of the Buddha's life: http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/lightasia.pdf 23.16.192.252 (talk) 04:01, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Please discuss to conclude on the reliability of these links. You could also go through WP:V and WP:RS for a better understanding.  LeoFrank  Talk 16:42, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 October 2014[edit]

Please change the text "The evidence of the early texts suggests that Siddhārtha Gautama was born in the Shakya clan, a community that was on the periphery, both geographically and culturally, of the northeastern Indian subcontinent in the 5th century BCE." to "The evidence of the early texts suggests that Siddhārtha Gautama was born in the Shakya clan, a community that was on the periphery, both geographically and culturally, of the central Nepal, who are still living there till date." because Budhha was born in Nepal and in Nepali Shakya Community and Lumbini was never even a part of India. Please refer to the ancient map of Nepal (included in source) to see that how most parts of India were in Nepal before. Also I saw a lot of confusions about the birth date of Budhha. Please refer to secondCite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page). source for that. 72.227.155.247 (talk) 14:50, 21 October 2014 (UTC) [1] [2] [3]

X mark.svg Not done Usage of the Indian subcontinent is accurate. --NeilN talk to me 14:55, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
Indian Continent is not Nepal.AmRit GhiMire "Ranjit" 01:55, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
I suggest you read Indian_subcontinent#Definition. --NeilN talk to me 03:06, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
  1. ^ http://www.greaternepal.org/content/about-1
  2. ^ http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/666
  3. ^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPtx_QRZbfw

Nature of traditional depictions[edit]

Can we remove unreliable source? tag from Gautama_Buddha#Nature of traditional depictions? Citation seems to be reliable. Bladesmulti (talk) 04:49, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

The original discussion about the Karen Armstrong quote can be found in the archive.
Talk:Gautama_Buddha/Archive_6#Karen_Armstrong_quote --Kathedra87 (talk) 09:45, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Birthplace[edit]

Over the past few days, new editors have attempted to assign the subject a specific birthplace. User:Joshua Jonathan/Gautama Buddha Birthplace sources and quotes should be read and a discussion needs to happen before doing this. --NeilN talk to me 14:15, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

I guess I should add this 6th century BCE shrine. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 17:09, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
The problematic edits may be seen in the context of local/national pride and an expected increase in tourism.
I think this article should be semi-protected to reduce the number of unconstructive edits. JimRenge (talk) 18:31, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Nation centric[edit]

The article is more centric on India assuming whole life of Gautam Buddha was concentrated in India only. In the revision,[1],

He is believed to have lived and taught mostly in South Asia precisely present Nepal and India sometime between the sixth and fourth centuries BCE. (Warder 2000, p.45)

The text is correct but is replaced by India only, time and again.
Next the birth place of Gautam Buddha is assumed to be at Nepal. But taking light of a single book, India is added with leaving the topic in Disputed topic.
I hope this nationcentric nature will be made neutral. AmRit GhiMire "Ranjit" 16:30, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

He may have born in Nepal, but he spent almost all of his life in present day India. UNESCO's website only support his birth in Nepal, it is not supporting your thought that "He is believed to have lived and taught mostly in Nepal". UNESCO is not WP:RS for this kind of view, it says that Buddha was born in 643 BCE, now that's new. Bladesmulti (talk) 03:33, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
The Buddha wasn't born in Nepal; he was born in the Sakya-territory. "Nepal" didn't exist at that time, nor did the state of India. "India" is a generic term here for South-Asia. And he spend most of his time in Gandhara and surrounding states. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:18, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
@Joshua Jonathan: I am using present Nepal. Then existance of Nepal at that time is not a topic. Next can you explain why India can be used as generic term for South Asia?? AmRit GhiMire "Ranjit" 07:26, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
@Bladesmulti: Why is UNESCO not a reliable source? Can you explain? Next it is true that Gautam Buddha stayed in the palace where he was borned. He was borned in Lumbini Nepal. Then why are you removing Nepal ?? AmRit GhiMire "Ranjit" 07:33, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
Please just read the link for "Birthplace disputed", the note next to it, and Wikipedia:Gautama Buddha Birthplace sources and quotes. This issue has been debated over and over and over again. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 07:59, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
@Joshua Jonathan: Read it clearly first. It doesn't refuse Lumbini as Birth place of Gautam Buddha. It is widely accepted except by some Indian. AmRit GhiMire "Ranjit" 08:05, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
You can quit gossiping now, and get on the facts. It is widely disputed and none of your sources claim that he lived most of his life in Nepal, you are misrepresenting that faulty citation. Bladesmulti (talk) 08:59, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
Explain me how is that faulty citation. AmRit GhiMire "Ranjit" 12:15, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
I did, told you that "UNESCO is not WP:RS for this kind of view, it says that Buddha was born in 643 BCE, now that's new." Bladesmulti (talk) 12:18, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Well, we do cite the UNESCO - together with other sources. We don't decide what's "true", we just give various possibilities. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 12:39, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

I found one[2], although it doesn't support anything like "he spent most of his life in Nepal" same with the previous citation. Bladesmulti (talk) 13:00, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Siddhartha is said to have spent 29 years as a prince in Kapilavastu. Although his father ensured that Siddhartha was provided.............

[1]

Narada (1992), A Manual of Buddhism, Buddha Educational Foundation, ISBN A Manual of Buddhism. ISBN 967-9920-58-5. 

So please include

He is believed to have lived and taught mostly in South Asia precisely present Nepal and India sometime between the sixth and fourth centuries BCE. (Warder 2000, p.45)

in the page. I cannot add it because of the fear of being blocked. AmRit GhiMire "Ranjit" 15:04, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

  1. ^ Narada (1992), A Manual of Buddhism, Buddha Educational Foundation, ISBN A Manual of Buddhism. ISBN 967-9920-58-5. 
15 years of life(your claim) minus 80 years. What about the 65 years he spent in Eastern India? Just book titles are not going to help, you have to also provide the page numbers. Bladesmulti (talk) 03:54, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
I think 29 and 15 are not same right? AmRit GhiMire "Ranjit" 04:47, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
It's also worth noting that his being born in Nepal is not accepted by all reliable sources, so the article really should not make claims that reliable sources don't agree on. Some sources do make these claims, and the article could make note that some sources believe this, but not that it's a universal truth that just is. - Aoidh (talk) 08:23, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Historicity[edit]

"Scholars are hesitant to make unqualified claims about the historical facts of the Buddha's life."

It has not been clarified as well as it had to be, we will have to rethink about it.

"According to the Theravada Tripitaka scriptures[which?] (from Pali, meaning "three baskets"), Gautama was born in Kapilavastu or Lumbini, nowadays in modern-day Nepal, around the year 563 BCE, and raised in Kapilavastu."

You cannot find exact dating or geolocation in any of the Theravada Tripitaka texts. They believed that he was born around 6th century BCE - 5th century BCE, but not more than that. I think we can rephrase so that pointed sentence(According to the Theravada Tripitaka scriptures...) can be removed. Bladesmulti (talk) 13:32, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

There are some relevant sources in the Piprahwa article and one in Kapilavastu, which I just added: "Traditional Buddhist sources claim that Kapilavastu was the childhood home of Gautama Buddha, on account of it being the capital of the Shakyas, over whom his father ruled.[1]" It doesn't say anything about where Buddha was born or how long he lived there.  Philg88 talk 07:30, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

A simple edit request[edit]

As in the article, Present day India is included in Death place, can't Present day Nepal be included after Lumbini .I tried it but NeilN reverted the edit. So I want to make WP:CONSENSUS here. AmRit GhiMire "Ranjit" 13:12, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

I wonder why Bladesmulti is ahead in reverting my edit.

Is adding following info against WP:NPOV ?

"King Śuddhodana and Queen Māyādevī are believed to have lived at Kapilavastu, as did their son Prince Siddartha Gautama until he left the palace at the age of 29.[2]"
  1. ^ Keown, Damien; Prebish, Charles S. (2013). Encyclopedia of Buddhism. Routledge. p. 436. ISBN 978-1-136-98588-1. 
  2. ^ Trainor, K (2010). "Kapilavastu". In Keown, D; Prebish, CS. Encyclopedia of Buddhism. Milton Park, UK: Routledge. pp. 436–7. ISBN 978-0-415-55624-8. 
WP:UNDUE. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 14:22, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
But I was just adding that Gautam Buddha was grown up in Kapilavastu.Is it WP:UNDUE ? AmRit GhiMire "Ranjit" 14:35, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── It's being mentioned in the article. It's undue for the lead. What's relevant is that he grew up in the area of "greater Gandhara". It's not relevant that now, 2,500 years later, that area is part of the state of Nepal. You're not interested in Buddha or Buddhism, nor in improving Wikipedia, but only in associating your nationality with a figure of great stature, to enhance your personal self-esteem. The Buddha may be relevant for Nepal, but Nepal is not relevant for Buddhism. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 15:06, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

It may be right

The Buddha may be relevant for Nepal, but Nepal is not relevant for Buddhism. But it was also removed from Nepal. Next in the lead Nepal is not mentioned due to WP:UNDUE as per you but inclusion of India related info is not WP:UNDUE.

Also in infobox Present day India is not undue but Present day Nepal is undue as per you. Can you explain reason? AmRit GhiMire "Ranjit" 15:21, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
You are making a Wikipedia:Point without reading those citations. Bladesmulti (talk) 15:27, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── @Amrit Ghimire Ranjit: ...Sigh...You're still not getting it are you? Please abide by the rules or go someplace else.  Philg88 talk 16:42, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Request for comment on reliable secondary sources for articles on Buddhism[edit]

The RfC by Dorje108 states that:

"I propose that texts written by Buddhist writers and teachers that explain basic Buddhist concepts should be considered secondary sources as long as they meet the criteria specified in the guidelines (regardless of whether or not the writer has Western academic training). Do you support this?"

Please see: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Buddhism

Robert Walker (talk) 07:46, 5 December 2014 (UTC)