Talk:Gene Simmons

Talk archives:
*Archive One

Infobox instruments

As a musician Simmons is known for his vocals and bass (and obviously stage antics); guitar, piano, and drums should be removed from the infobox. Unles anyone make a convincing argument I will remove them in 48 hours. -J04n (talk) 20:30, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.co.uk/page/News?news_id=92711 well, here he says that he composes songs on guitar and piano, that's enough i guess. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.196.242.136 (talk) 11:44, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I disagree, the infobox is a summation of the info in the article and gives the main points about the artist. It is there for the reader who isn't going to read the article to get a feel for the subject. Putting guitar and piano in there puts too high an emphasis on something that is a very minor aspect of this artist. J04n(talk page) 14:54, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

jesus, it's the instruments section, nothing mor nothing less, in john entwistles article it's mentioned that he plays jew's harp and horn, so give gene his piano and guitar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.173.170.239 (talk) 16:40, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

External link section

The external link section is getting quite long. Accoding to Wikipedia:External links the only link in this section that should be included is the first, his official website. There are currently 5 links to interviews (one of them in 4 separate parts so really 8 links), and a link to his IMDb page, that I want to delete but I will wait a couple of days to see if anyone points out that I am misinterpreting the external link guidelines. -J04n (talk) 15:35, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

typos?

The quote: "The record industry is dead. It's six feet underground and unfortunately the fans have done this. The previous generation was allowed to download music for free. You can't be surprised that there are no chickens and eggs when you let the fox in the henhouse." Shouldn't it read "The previous generation was not allowed to download music for free. " ?? Otherwise it makes no sense. Kingturtle (talk) 18:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I checked the reference and suprise it's misquoted, I'll fix it. BTW, nice job in cleaning up that section, I agree the tounge stuff did not belong. J04n(talk page) 18:14, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Instruments/more info on bass

Why is it just mentioned twice that he's a bassist? I thought thats what made gene, gene. Not the full page of TV appearances. Wiggl3sLimited (talk) 23:20, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree, there is also only a paragraph-and-a-half dealing with him as a member of Kiss. I have meant to rewrite this page several times but just don't have any good sourced material on him as a musician. It is interesting that Peter and Ace have much more info on them as members of Kiss than Gene and Paul. I am the guilty party in making that table of TV appearances, but if you saw all of the bullet points (all formatted differently) that were there before you would understand why. Feel free to add more on him as a musician, it is needed. J04n(talk page) 23:49, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

" . . . don't have any good sourced material on him as a musician" - maybe that's because he sucks in this regard. Sstteevvee (talk) 18:38, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

School Teacher past??

I'm surprised that there has been no mention of Gene Simmons' past experience as a school teacher. I have read comments of this in the past, including an interview (Playboy?) by him in which he detailed a sexual encounter with a fan who turned out to be one of his former middle school students. His obvious intelligence has been well-touted with reference to speaking four languages fluently, and a mention in this article that he attended a local junior college. But to have become a certified school teacher he would have had to graduate from a program with a bachelor degree. How long & where did he teach? What subject(s)? What was his major field of study, and where / when did he graduate? This will add an interesting facet to an already very fascinating person, artist & celebrity. Dirty Dan the Man (talk) 03:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Gene taught the 6th grade at P.S. 75 in the Spanish Harlem section of New York City, on the upper West Side of Manhattan. As I recall, it wasn't for very long, maybe a year. I don't know what subject(s), but I would guess he taught whatever was needed. Elsquared (talk) 08:26, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Current living status

I noticed the article didn't state where Gene is currently living, so i added it, hope that was okay. Yonobi (talk) 03:43, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually, it does say it in the "Personal life" section. J04n(talk page) 03:36, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Just think it would be easier to find. Yonobi (talk) 03:40, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

That was already a pretty busy sentence. The opening section is intended to be a brief summary of what is in the main body of the article, so if you think it belongs up top you could put it back, but perhaps in a new paragraph? J04n(talk page) 03:47, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

No, you're right. It's already there, i just missed it. Sorry. Yonobi (talk) 03:51, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Sources

I tagged this as needing refs, IMDb is not a reliable source, hopefully the content attributed to them can be sourced from somewhere else.--Terrillja _talk 15:39, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Terrillja, I have to respectfully disagree with your tag on this page. I do agree that this page needs a lot of work and could be much better, however, stating his status as a living person and that more reliable sources are needed is overstated in this case. The IMDb references are on completely innocent non-libelous items (mostly sit-com guest appearances). Not even Gene is libelous enough to sue over us saying he appeared on Ugly Betty. The more meaty statements on this page are sourced to NPR, the Associated Press, law.com, and his own website. Unless others agree with you or you make a more compelling case I will remove the tag in 48 hours. J04n(talk page) 20:44, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Clothing line?

Shouldn't we mention the Gene Simmons Moneybag clothing line? [1] 209.105.207.151 (talk) 06:09, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

that 70s show

it says he was on it in 2009 that 70s show ended 06 (or 07 cant rmemeber) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.58.179.251 (talk) 07:29, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Creepy styling of the KISS name

Just registering a protest on the way the band name is stylized. There is, to my mind, all the difference in the world between 1) deferring to trademark to the point of spelling out something like BLAZE ORANGE or styling Macy's as Macy*s--versus using upper/lower characters in KISS. And if we do this, then it should be AC/DC [and don't get on me about how it's about how the word/name is pronounced; there are tons of acronyms that are pronounced as words, but still commonly spelled out].

I'm a good stylistic soldier, but this looks uncommonly odd. That likely marks me as a creature of the 1970s, but still...Kiss? Really?

Yeah... just a voice crying in the wilderness.Scooge (talk) 00:54, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

The Wolfman.

I read that Gene is providing the voice in the remake of The Wolfman (2010). There's nothing on this page about this. I just thought you might like to know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.230.236 (talk) 17:12, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Other names

I think it's worthy to note some of Gene's other aliases in the infobox (The Demon, God of Thunder, Dr. Love) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.167.131.239 (talk) 02:48, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I think 'The Demon' is more of a persona than a nickname and the other two are just songs he sings, I wouldn't consider them nicknames at all. J04n(talk page) 10:16, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

In Family Jewels he refers to himself as all three. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.167.131.239 (talk) 21:52, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Musical genres

Gene is well known for his contributions to rock music. That is why I think that the heavy metal genre should be removed from the info box unless anyone can present a good argument against it. The Kiss records of the 80's has much in common with hard rock. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.62.154.250 (talk) 03:43, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

4,600,000 women?

Anyone wanna point out how this would mean thatd he would have to have had sex with roughly 211 women a day from the day he was born or just delete it?93.186.23.200 (talk) 20:54, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Plain old vandalism. I'll revert it. Rodhullandemu 21:23, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Why Anti Gene Simmons?

It seems many of the articles are biased against Gene Simmons. Showing Gene had issues with NPR and Al Franken are clearly based on biased liberal views. Being a successful entertainer, business man and generally conservative, Gene is treated with disdane by those with different political views. Too bad there is not enough written about the fact that given his popularity, he is a decent man.

He is patriotic and good to his family. Not something many successful entertainers can say these days. The difference is many of those other entertainers proclaim to be liberal and get a free ride.

Unfortunately just the way it is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rickahight (talk • contribs) 01:36, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

It's called having a Neutral Point of View. WP:NPOV Even Gene Simmons is imperfect, and ignoring that would make for an unbalanced article. --| Uncle Milty | talk | 03:02, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Just got an email about this...and i agree with the first editor ...and in fact will be removing the section to this page to work out all the relevant ones that should stay - as per WP:NPOV WP:UNDUE, WP:ATP. this is way unbalanced with the majority of text negative....and does not meet WP:NPOV standards ...So lets talk about what should stay..Moxy (talk) 03:07, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

The racquetball and brownie stories are pretty trivial but all in all I disagree with the notion that there is a problem here. Each controversy is well sourced, if there is another side to story or if he's rebutted any of it then expand them. He's outspoken and been around for a long time, that's going to lead to a lot of controversies. J04n(talk page) 06:11, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

I agree that some are fine but there is clearly WP:UNDUE with the majority of this negative sourced or not...the article has to be balanced and this is not...We cant have the biggest section all negative + we are using words like "allegedly" this is an encyclopedia not a blog or a fan web site. Could you pls explain the benefit of having this section that deals with conjectures and random quotes by others except to deface the subject in question. Most article here are done by fans and have section like Legacy and influences, but here we have a section (the biggest one) devoted to posting ever controversy that has been mentioned on his show..So we have a section only covering 2002 - 2009 all negative. So what we need to do is decide what should stay as the article seem to be written by someone who hates him. Moxy (talk) 14:46, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

But that doesn't remove the bad to even things out. If you want to argue that some of these don't warrent inclusion, or add his side of the story fine. Looking at each one again I could see dropping the "un-named woman sex tape" since it doesn't seem that it went anywhere. Most of these aren't conjecture, the NPR thing happened and there is tape, he made the remarks against Islam, he was sued by Ward, he made the copyright statements (which BTW I don't think are necessarily negative), the Michael Jackson bit has the documented refudiation (although I can see that one dropped as it also didn't go anywhere. He markets himself as a contraversial guy and gets into contraversies regularly, it's who he is. I don't see this as written by someone who hates him at all, I've done a lot of the editing of this page and I'm a huge fan. J04n(talk page) 15:16, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

yes we should remove any unbalance as per WP:UNDUE good or not~~ ...that said lets look at this as i would a GA or FA review...First its not even in paragraph form we discourage bullet point here but that can be fixed in time..i have replaced the section minus somestuff..pls if you think i am wrong lets talk. Moxy (talk) 16:15, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Controversies

• In a February 4, 2002 interview on the NPR radio show Fresh Air with Terry Gross, Simmons said to Gross regarding his claim to have bedded about 4,600 women: "If you want to welcome me with open arms, I'm afraid you're also going to have to welcome me with open legs" (paraphrasing The Who's hit song "You Better You Bet"). To this Gross replied, "That's a really obnoxious thing to say." Simmons refused to grant permission to NPR to make the interview available online on the network's website. However, the interview appears in print in Gross's book All I Did Was Ask (ISBN 1-4013-0010-3), and some unauthorized transcripts are also available. A part of the interview was re-broadcast on Fresh Air on Aug 31, 2007. It is noted that Kiss bandmate and co-founder Paul Stanley has frequently used the phrase "... welcomed us with open arms and open legs", and similar wording, in onstage patter through many years of Kiss concerts.
• In a later Fresh Air interview, satirist and future United States Senator Al Franken related to Terry Gross his own encounter with Gene Simmons. According to Franken, he was awaiting a racquetball partner at a club when Simmons, whom Franken had not recognized, challenged him to a match, stating "I'll kick your ass", only to suffer an embarrassing loss to Franken. Simmons responded by calling for another match, and when Franken indicated that since his racquetball partner had arrived, he couldn't play Simmons again, Simmons responded by making loud "boc, boc, boc" chicken sounds. Franken then offered to play Simmons with $500 at stake, at which point Simmons walked away. Franken told Gross not to blame herself for her experience with Simmons, and that Simmons' behavior at the racquetball club made him "the most awful person I've ever met." Not sure what is being said here its about a game and someone POV on him.
• In 2004, during an interview in Melbourne, Australia, Simmons described Islam as a "vile culture" wherein women had fewer rights than dogs. He described Islam as a threat, claiming that Muslims wanted to leave the Middle East and supplant non-Muslims in other parts of the world by force. The Muslim community took offense, with Australian Muslim of the Year, Susan Carland, asserting that Simmons' stereotyping of Muslims was inaccurate and that she never walked behind her husband as Simmons stated all Muslim women were required to do. Simmons later said on his website that he was talking specifically about Muslim extremists.
• In 2005, Simmons was sued by a former lover, Georgeann Walsh Ward, who alleged that she had been "defamed" in the VH1 documentary When Kiss Ruled the World, which she claimed portrayed her as an "unchaste woman" and implied that she had been merely a groupie rather than a committed girlfriend of Simmons. Ward insisted that she had been involved in an "exclusive monogamous relationship" with Simmons since before Kiss was formed. The suit was settled as of June 29, 2006.
• In June 2008, in an interview with AOL News, Simmons blamed those who upload and download copyrighted music for the hard times that the music industry is experiencing. Simmons was quoted as saying: "The record industry is dead. It's six feet underground and unfortunately the fans have done this. They've decided to download and file share. There is no record industry around so we're going to wait until everybody settles down and becomes civilized. As soon as the record industry pops its head up we'll record new material." This is not the first time that Simmons has blamed those who upload and download copyrighted music for the falling fortunes of the music industry. In a November 2007 interview, he is quoted as saying that "Every little college kid, every freshly-scrubbed little kid's face should have been sued off the face of the earth." all most all feel this way..so y does his opinion matter and Warrant inclusion
• In 2008, a video on the Internet surfaced which purported to be Simmons engaging in sexual activity with an unnamed woman. Simmons later stated that the tape was recorded without his consent or knowledge and that his legal team was pursuing legal options.....Needs to be updated

If it needs to be updated, why has it been removed all together? Are KISS fans trying to sugarcoat Gene's article by hiding his 7 minute sex tape? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.184.61.18 (talk) 01:22, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

• Simmons debated Bob Lefsetz in a heated exchange at Canadian Music Week in March 2009 about Simmons Records and the music industry generally. Both men had engaged in a controversial e-mail campaign against each other shortly before the debate...Ok what is being said here..He got into an argument who cares???
• In July 2009, Simmons allegedly made remarks about Michael Jackson following the pop icon's passing the previous month that the children who accused him of molestation should be heard as well. The Kiss frontman also reportedly referred to Jackson as "sick". Simmons' comments and accusations concerning Jackson were later said to be false by Jackson's former lead tour guitarist Jennifer Batten allegedly?? and latter demised as false....so y we mentioning this at all
• Simmons also contends that he has "never been high, drunk, or smoked in [his] life". (However, in Kiss: Behind the Mask, former Kiss drummer Peter Criss states, "It was dirty of us, but we just wanted to get Gene high [...] Someone made hash brownies [...] And he ate 'em." Simmons also refers to this incident (although he does not explicitly mention that the brownies contained marijuana) in his biography, KISS and Make-up.) So he has never willing taken drugs...So we list a trick by his band mates so we can say he did do them--come on this is blog trivia

Operation Payback

a few words about him here.Civic Cat (talk) 17:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Kiss and Tell

Didn't Gene Simmons also write a book called "Kiss and Tell"?--80.136.99.29 (talk) 11:19, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Gene Simmon's SEX TAPE

I'm not surprised his 7minute home made video nailing someone other than his wife isn't mentioned anywhere in the article, it is as boring as listening to a chess match over radio. I mean, for someone to have been with over 4,000 chicks, he needs new moves!! lol 203.184.61.18 (talk) 01:18, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

His wife? Simmons isn't married. 80.217.50.247 (talk) 06:38, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Israeli-American

As You can see from the wikipedia article on Israeli Americans, he is listed as an example of an Israeli American http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_American ]].. He was born in Israel, hence he is an Israeli American just as Arnold Schwarzenegger is an Austrian-American for example.

I fixed the Arnold Schwarzenegger lead, even though it has a better chance of being required there. MOS:BIO indicates that we generally shouldn't include ethnicity in the lead. Is there anything about Gene Simmons being Israeli that actually contributes to his notability? Isn't he just notable for being a member of an American rock band?—Kww(talk) 21:39, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Arnold_Schwarzenegger is described as an American, have you got any citations that support his Israeli citizenship or dual nationality? He may well have a right to claim Israli citizenship but without a citation to support him having it we don't know and anyways that does still not make him an Israeli american in the lede like that it makes him a dual nationality American and Israeli. Off2riorob (talk) 21:41, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

If you are born in Israel, you are an Israeli citizen. It is not something that needs to be "claimed". --Mikeyasadie (talk) 21:47, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Actually, it is. Israel doesn't automatically grant citizenship to everyone born within its borders. The primary point, though, is that he is an American rock act, and that is what he is famous for. Israeli-American is an ethnicity, and he isn't more or less famous for being an Israeli-American that performs in a band than he is for being an American that performs in a band. His ethnicity is irrelevant to his notability.—Kww(talk) 21:53, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Actually, Israel does automatically grant citizenship to all Jews born within its borders and he is Jewish. --Mikeyasadie (talk) 22:03, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Then why have American there either? Is not that an ethnicity too?--Mikeyasadie (talk) 22:01, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Because "American" describes the frame of reference that he is notable for, and, as such, belongs in the lead. By the way, I've fixed your indentation levels in this discussion. Please don't just make all of your comments to the far left, as it makes things extremely difficult to read.—Kww(talk) 22:12, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

I thought he is notable for being a Rock singer, not for being American.--Mikeyasadie (talk) 22:20, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

We do, as a general rule, include that nationality in the lead. It would be an extremely unusual case to not have it.—Kww(talk) 22:25, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

You sure seem to be in denial that he is Israeli! Are you a birther claiming he was born in Kenya? --Mikeyasadie (talk) 21:51, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Don't make aspersions against other editors, please.—Kww(talk) 21:54, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

It is an aspersion against me. He is claiming although he was born in Israel and lived there for 8 years, that somehow he is unsure if he is Israeli. --Mikeyasadie (talk) 21:58, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Off2riorob made no statements against your character or beliefs, he discussed only the contents of the edits themselves.—Kww(talk) 22:12, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, there are no aspersions. Thanks Kww. Off2riorob (talk) 22:23, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Nationality in the lede

The subject is being described as a Israeli American in the lede, is that a nationality? He seems to be an American to me, has he got dual nationality? Is there a citation for that?

Where exactly is the verification of his specific status as an American?

Is he American? Citizen? Green Card? Student Visa? Is there a citation for him being American? Where exactly is the verification of his specific status as an American?

He was born in Israel, that makes him an Israeli citizen. --Mikeyasadie (talk) 21:39, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

"Israeli-American" has been in the article for a long time.

Why do some people want to censor this? It seems like "Israeli-American" has been in the article for a long time. Now everyone is like - no way! take it out of there! --Mikeyasadie (talk) 21:39, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

It's not censorship. It's just against guidelines to include it in the lead. It's adequately covered in the article.—Kww(talk) 21:40, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Maybe he was born in Kenya?

I have not seen his Israeli birth certificate. Maybe he was born in Kenya and then secretly shipped to Israel. He was educated in Hebrew speaking schools. Is he a Jew or is that a conspiracy theory? --Mikeyasadie (talk) 21:54, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

And here is the land of my birth - Haifa, Israel. Believe it or not, I recognize my birthplace hospital by the seashore.

Mar 28th- And here is the land of my birth - Haifa, Israel. Believe it or not, I recognize my birthplace hospital by the seashore. http://www.genesimmons.com

--Mikeyasadie (talk) 22:16, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, please don't go on about it, he was born is Israel, that goes in the section below the lede, in the lede he is an American. Off2riorob (talk) 22:20, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Why Elton John then?

Sir Elton Hercules John, CBE (born Reginald Kenneth Dwight; 25 March 1947) is an English singer-songwriter, composer and pianist.

Why does is say "English"? He lives in America. --Mikeyasadie (talk) 22:21, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Elton John is English, are you suggesting he is an American? Off2riorob (talk) 22:24, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, He lives in America.--Mikeyasadie (talk) 22:25, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

It's a part-time residence in the US, and, you will note, he is not described as "British-American" or "American-British".—Kww(talk) 22:40, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Personal Life

In the comments on Gene Klein/Simmons' involvement in science fiction fandom, it is noted that among the fanzines (amateur magazines) that he published was one titled Sirruish. Gene was a frequent contributor, but he didn't publish this fanzine. I was a co-founder, along with Dave Hall -- it was to be a St. Louis-area sf fan group publication, and after the first issue Dave and I turned it over to Leigh Couch, who published it very successfully for many years. 75.146.148.87 (talk) 12:22, 2 July 2011 (UTC) Hank Luttrell 7/2/2011

The name "Kiss"

As a former Kiss-fan I strongly doubt that the name is based from the name Klein which Simmons took when he arrived to USA. As I've heared it was Stanley that came up with the name and Klein does not translate to or from hungarian to kiss. Also, under the references for the statement is a link to a discussion board and I can't even find the information under it. 80.217.50.247 (talk) 06:42, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Issues with "Lead", "Early life", "Awards and recognition", and "References" sections.

According to the article lead and Early life sections Chaim Weitz (later Gene Simmons) was the son of Feri Witz. There are no references to this (WP:NOCITE) birth name, that is referenced here (under "Israel is still my home"), with the same spelling as his father. If the source is reliable this appears to be a simple misspelling.

Reference number 3 (Message Board – AETV Community – Real Life. Drama) is a message (forum) board, which runs afoul of WP:SPS which states, "group blogs, Internet forum postings, and tweets, are largely not acceptable as sources.", and will certainly be an issue when used on a BLP. The Awards and recognition section is also non-sourced.

Reference issues

There are many reference issues.

• Reference #6 is a bare URL missing part of the protocol (the h)
• Reference #33 thru 42, #44 thru 47, #49 and 50, #52 thru 71, and #73 are Internet Movie Database (IMDb) (many misspelled as IBDb) references. These references are named under the guidelines concerning identifying reliable sources specifically under the section usergenerated, which are generally accepted standards supported by policy. These "references" are used in the "Filmography" and "Television appearances" sections in info boxes but are unnecessary. All of the titles listed in the sections (with the exception of Red Surf (reference #38) are articles on Wikipedia. All of these articles use IMDb as an external link and not a reference although the ones listed under "Notes" below are references masked as external links.
• Reference #43 is to a user generated site (Blabbermouth.net) with no listed editors or authors, no editorial oversight, and a warning at the end of the web page, "BLABBERMOUTH.NET is run and operated independently of Roadrunner Records. The accuracy of the information contained herein is neither confirmed nor guaranteed by Roadrunner Records, and the views and opinions of authors expressed on these pages do not necessarily state or reflect those of Roadrunner Records or its employees.
• Reference #48 (planetmadtv.com)is both a forum and chat room site.
• Finally (as far as I have looked so far) there is a hidden note in the reference section,
  • As per Wiki policy all external links should be in "ref" form.
  • See Wikipedia:Footnotes for a
  • discussion of different citation methods and how to generate
  • footnotes using the, "ref", "/ref" and "reference /" tags

This is a directive that "all external links" can be used as references and are thus instructed by policy that it is acceptable to be cited as such and in fact "should be" cited in reference form. External links that can be used as references should be incorporated into the article (WP:ELRC) but external links that fail the criteria of reliable source can "not" be used as a reference. This is clearly explained in the external links content guideline and further WP:ELBLP raises the bar of acceptable sites. The issue of external links has also been covered by the essay "External links/Perennial websites" with many editors weighing in. It has been the consensus of the Wikipedia community that IMDb "is not" a reliable source.

• Note: Never Too Young to Die, Wanted: Dead or Alive (film), Wish You Were Dead, The Mike Douglas Show (tagged since 2009), has no references and apparently was created using external links only and can be tagged with;

This article does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed.

and possibly nominated for an article for deletion.

I did not place any tags or perform any edits at this time but opted to see if there are editors watching this article (and possible the articles listed under "Note") willing to discuss and address these issues. Also I do not want to make any good faith edits that are reverted for no or insufficient reasons. Bear in mind this is a biography of a living person so I will be aggressive as per Wikipedia policies and guidelines to ensure compliance in a timely fashion. If it is believed I have erred on any points I am open to discuss these. Otr500 (talk) 04:10, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Multiple issue template

There was no comments so I added a template to cover the issues above. I will remove the IMDb references, that are redundant and unnecessary, as well as addressing the bare URL's. Otr500 (talk) 14:28, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

I removed the IMBd references that were not only --NOT-- necessary (links to Wikipedia articles with references suffice), IMBd references are not considered reliable sources and certainly not acceptable (a template is a hint) on a BLP, and removed dead link and other maintenance. I have no idea what the hidden comment (all external links should be in ref form) concerns. I added a comment to this and if it means other than what I read it as saying someone can let me know. Otr500 (talk) 01:14, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Copyright fight

I'm curious as to why there is no mention of his public statement where he told the music industry to "Sue everybody." and "The music industry was asleep at the wheel, and didn't have the balls to sue every fresh-faced, freckle-faced college kid who downloaded material. And so now we're left with hundreds of thousands of people without jobs. There's no industry.", and the resulting fight with anonymous. I think it was a rather major point in his history and rather newsworthy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.236.97.151 (talk) 19:20, 27 November 2011 (UTC)