Talk:Genesis (band)

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Former featured article Genesis (band) is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
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Regrets[edit]

"[Ray Wilson] regretted his time spent with the band" Considering how much he uses Genesis material in his shows nowadays, that's changed; probably for the money. 90.225.121.130 (talk) 05:53, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

We can speculate what Ray meant by his comments and why he does his classic Genesis shows but there's no place for such idle gossip here. In any case the legitimacy of his comment has no bearing on the fact that he made said comment. 109.152.0.171 (talk) 23:02, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Canned Ham?[edit]

The second paragraph of "2006–present: Reunion and future" sounds a lot like an advertisement. Bergamote (talk) 00:50, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. -- Winkelvi 07:05, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Abacab's reception[edit]

76.117.58.67 (talk) recently posted again for the third time a paragraph on the poor reception of Abacab during a live show in Leiden Holland. This user's unreferenced and unsourced claim is apparently based on his or her interpretation of a Youtube video of a concert within which a few fans can be heard booing and Collins responds. No inline citation is presented, but a link to a Youtube video was posted in the Edit summary. In addition, quotes by Banks and Collins are given with no source.

YouTube and other video-sharing sites are generally not considered reliable sources because anyone can create or manipulate a video clip and upload without editorial oversight, just as with a self-published website. (Source) See too Wikipedia:Video links: There is no blanket ban on linking to YouTube or other user-submitted video sites through external links or when citing sources. However, such links must abide by various policies and guidelines. Links should be carefully and individually evaluated for inclusion.

Until consensus on how and if to present this information and how to source it is achieved here in the Talk page I am removing the added content from the article.Coldcreation (talk) 08:28, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Once again there were far more than a "few" fans booing. It was the enitre studium booing, otherwise it would have never even been considered a booing concert! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.117.58.67 (talk) 09:33, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Phil Collins as lead vocalist and Peter Gabriel as lead vocalist wikilinks[edit]

Please see Talk:Turn It On Again: The Hits#Wikilink not to articles but to section of Genesis main article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.53.219.212 (talk) 08:01, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Proposed merge with The Farm (recording studio)[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The result of this discussion was to merge The Farm (recording studio) with Genesis (band).

Not important enough for its own article. Philafrenzy (talk) 12:41, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Looks like a good move to me. -- Winkelvi 14:48, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
Seeing as there has been no more discussion on this matter in ten months, and the only two (now three) people who have commented on the matter are in favour of the move, I suggest we close the debate and make the move. If anyone who had viewed the article in that time had an objection they would have listed it by now. Anyone who disagrees with the merger can then come back here and take the issue up by re-opening a new discussion into the matter. This conversation won't be archived for a while yet. 5.80.226.167 (talk) 18:28, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.


Missing Live & Compilation releases from Discography[edit]

The discography only seems to list studio recordings - there aren't any live albums. Is there a reason for this? The live albums I'm thinking of are (with year of original release)...

GENESIS LIVE (1973)

SECONDS OUT (1977)

THREE SIDES LIVE (1982, though recordings stem from 1977-81)

Also, compilations are missing (e.g. ARCHIVE 1967-75 and ARCHIVE #2 1976-1992)

All of the above releases were officially sanctioned, i.e. they weren't bootlegs.

Taff Hewitt (talk) 21:06, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

The band's discography page is linked to the discography section on the main page. It is the separate page that exists for the listing of all official releases. Only studio albums need be featured on the main page. 5.80.226.167 (talk) 18:29, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Section title[edit]

This may have already been discussed before and I apologise for not searching the TP archives. I am just noticing the article has a section called "the classic years." I could be slow... that may have a long history sitting there. I don't doubt its wording... if discussing with a music fan/friend I would likely use the term myself. But this is supposed to be a neutral encyclopedia written in such a way as to avoid fancrufty adjectives ... unless they appear as a direct/cited quote. Certainly not in a section title. Its nit-picky but I know back during the FA builds for other bands that same topic came up as a discussion point.... nothing wild or crazy... just an effort to avoid using fan adjectives like "classic" or similar. It's like starting a band's lead paragraph with the sentence "X were an AWESOME progressive rock band of the 1970s" I have no specific alternatives to suggest off the top of my head. Maybe if I have time to think I will come up with a classic answer to that :) Mr Pyles (talk) 21:37, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Genesis album sales[edit]

This seems to be changed a lot on this page. Please let's keep it consistent with the linked page for List of best-selling music artists, which states that Genesis have sold 130 million albums.Rodericksilly (talk) 17:24, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

needs correction[edit]

"The group auditioned reportedly over 400 lead singers to find a replacement for Gabriel." - False rumour. Tony Banks corrects this in a recent radio interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7Qap3pwS4_M#t=642

I don't know how to edit the page correctly can you guys help thx. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.6.131.28 (talk) 14:06, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for your input. Coldcreation (talk) 12:41, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
Having got hold of Bowler and Dray's book (which my old copy went missing for about 15 years) for Christmas, p114 says the band received 400 tapes from an anonymous Melody Maker advert, of which most were tossed in the bin. That sounds realistic. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:58, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Changed Brief Mention of Phil Collins, Previous Text Incorrect[edit]

In the article, Phil Collins was incorrectly listed as lead singer and drummer since 2006. Phil Collins had been lead singer on "Genesis", "Invisible Touch" and "We Can't Dance" and that he was lead singer with the group on these three albums, at least. This was incorrect as the article on Phil Collins correctly identifies that Phil Collins became lead singer and drummer in 1976, after Peter Gabriel left the band in 1975. The corrected text in the firstg paragraph has only been changed to reflect the correct date Phil Collins became lead singer. It should be noted that Phil Collins left the band the first time in the 1990's. So, it's not possible that he's been klead singer since 2006, when he was the lead vocalist since the mid 70's. 2001:558:6007:98:310D:47E8:19B3:3A1E (talk) 01:05, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Genesis Active - Re-evaluation[edit]

Whilst I acknowledge the importance of consensus on Wikipedia, and wish to make no alteration that is against the will of the majority, with each passing year since the reunion tour the need to consider whether Genesis is still an 'active' band increases. Like everyone else, I would love to consider the band to be 'together' and hope for more music and/or tour dates in the future, but when forming our consensus we must look at the facts realistically, and consider whether certain changes really should be made, such as the infobox example featured in this discussion.

As pointed out before, there has never been an official announcement made by the band stating anything to the effect that 'Genesis has ceased to exist', but there is no enforced law that forces a band to make such a statement. Also, the last tour was touted as a 'reunion', the same as the 1999 and 2000 one-off performances, and neither of those were followed by a break up announcement. Reunions on Wikipedia are generally not considered to be full reformations, so why is Genesis in 2006/07 an exception?

Additionally, most recent comments made by the five classic band members indicate that Genesis won't regroup again as a band. As supported with sources on the main page, Banks and Collins have suggested that it won't happen, and Gabriel, Hackett, and Rutherford have suggested that it is highly unlikely. Additionally, each time the members have been asked about performing together, they talk about 'reuniting' which would suggest the band dissolved in 2007 anyway, even if they do 'reunite' again in future.

I think it is crucial to the integrity of this page that we start to have discussions on this matter more regularly, as the passage of time makes the chances of future Genesis collaborations more and more unlikely. In addition to this, I think we should debate whether there is a cut-off point at which we start to consider Genesis as inactive as opposed to active (i.e. the tenth anniversary of their last live performance). After all, if they ever do reform then that edit can always be reversed.

Kind regards, 5.80.226.167 (talk) 19:50, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

As mentioned elsewhere, I have got hold of some old book sources and will start improving the article slowly once I have reacquainted myself with them. What makes Genesis unusual amongst bands is that they've remained friends (with the possible exception of Steve Hackett) even through periods of inactivity and occasionally chatted to each other - the recent BBC documentary is one instance, an earlier one to plug the archive box sets is another. I don't particularly have a problem with putting the band's activity as "1967 - 1998; 2006-2007" and leave it at that. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:01, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
I agree. The issue is certainly a tricky one, particularly given how close the three musicians listed as 'current members' are. I'm not sure about Steve Hackett; what was apparent to me from the recent documentary is that there is still some tension between Tony Banks and Peter Gabriel. However, Gabriel and Hackett weren't part of the last reunion, so any dispute between either of them and any of the other three is probably irrelevant to the current entity of the band. Phil Collins recently reported that both Banks and Mike Rutherford traveled to his hospital bedside when he was ill recently, which shows a profound bond still exists there, even if they haven't worked together for a long time. 5.80.228.250 (talk) 15:11, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Neutrality[edit]

I have been slogging through this article and it's like Sysyphus pushing a rock up a hill. I'm carrying on with the book cites, but in the meantime, can I please put out a heartfelt plea to everyone (especially IPs, who seem to be the worst offenders) adding content to cite what you're adding to a reliable source, and include whatever information is necessary for somebody else to verify it. For books and journals, that means title, publisher, page number and ISBN. I know lots of hardcore Genesis fans can't bear the fact that the same group (or some of them) that put together Foxtrot (album) and Selling England by the Pound had the sheer and utter chutzpah to release Invisible Touch and We Can't Dance ... but that doesn't belong in an encyclopedia with a neutral point of view. (And I quite like 80s Genesis, well bits of it anyway). Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:37, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

To 76.117.58.67[edit]

76.117.58.67, Please stop undoing my edit. I have made it quite clear why I think the edit is opinionated (your opinion that the band was no longer a "homogenous" band during the Duke era). I feel it is original research, and opinionated at that. I have pointed you toward the appropriate section of the NPOV article dealing with subjective opinions, which you seem to just ignore. And all you do is go on reverting my efforts, and those of others in this matter, calling us "dumbass" and "stupidass" repeatedly. You even created a user page for me, calling me an "asshole" and "motherfucker." Your behavior is childish and disruptive. I care about this article, a former featured article, and feel it is being overloaded with too many details and subjective opinions and summaries. But I'm thinking of giving up on it now, if all I suffer is abuse from you. 147.46.57.248 (talk) 04:01, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

He won't be able to answer you using that IP for the next year unless you visit his talk page. His behavior has been entirely unacceptable; thank you for drawing my attention to the problem and I'm sorry that you and the other editors here have had to endure his abuse.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 04:20, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, he won't be able to answer at his talk page either now. Access revoked for removing the active block notice repeatedly.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 02:44, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Delete the biased and unnecessary 'Criticism' section[edit]

I don't understand the relevance of, or need for, the 'Criticism' section. It should be removed.

Genesis have been selling records since 1970 (or 1967 if you like) and have been hugely successful. Over that time, they've had thousands of news articles and many book written about them. Amongst that lot, plenty of negative comments were written along with lots of positive ones. There is therefore no foundation for having a 'Criticism' section with a cherry-picked selection of the negative comments. It's far from an objective view of the band but it occupies a relatively large percentage of the article.

That gives the articles bias, not objectivity. The wiki pages on Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and the Rolling Stones don't have a 'Criticism' section, correctly so. Nor do the pages for Kajagoogoo, Adam And The Ants or the Spice Girls so its not musical snobbery. It's just bias in the article.

Pending a discussion here, the 'Criticism' section should be removed because it's biased and a disproportionately long part of the whole wiki page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ToaneeM (talkcontribs) 22:37, 27 April 2015 (UTC)