Talk:Genesis creation narrative

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The Article Is Not Neutral At All[edit]

For example, Moses is thought to have written the Book of Genesis. Various biblical scholars have accepted that Moses was God's first prophet and author of the first five books in the Old Testament.50.157.103.28 (talk) 03:07, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

It isn't meant to be 'neutral', it is meant to reflect a 'neutral point of view' as described at WP:NPOV. And it says that Genesis is traditionally attributed to Moses, but that isn't the current scholarly view. The article will never actually state that Moses wrote it as a fact. Dougweller (talk) 06:55, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

I never claimed that it is an established fact that Moses was the first prophet. I live in the Twin Cities, a major breeding ground for secular Christian theologians, and yes, I do know it is an established fact that Moses is accepted as the first prophet by many biblical scholars. Many Christian, Jewish and Muslims scholars identify the five books of Moses' Torah as the first holy books ever written.50.157.103.28 (talk) 04:02, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

This article is a mash-up of biases and questionable opinions. For instance "humanity he creates is not god-like, but is punished for acts which would lead to their becoming god-like" this does not reflect the mainstream opinion of Christianity. The ejection from Eden was to "prevent them from eating of the tree of life and living eternally in their sin" which sin was disobedience not enlightenment.

I at first thought to sit and correct some of the text of the article and almost immediately gave up realizing it is nearly hopelessly self conflicting and rife with incomplete interpretations and incorrect positioning.

The article does not have a section on secular comparativism which I believe it should definitely contain but I do not have a ready list of sources to create the section. If I were to write it the content would be seen as my opinion without those references.

In the end I looked to the back page and found the horror among editors over the naming of the article (which I read in its current entirety) and truly wanted to slap both dominant sides.

The creation selection from Genesis is a wonderful account as understood from the POV of a technologically and scientifically primitive position. If it was completely accurate, and I mean literally correct, it would still have to be seen through the eyes of mankind 4,000 years ago, if you side with the Moses authorship, or 3000 years ago if you espouse the 700 BC (I refuse to use BCE) authorship.

If the original was 'revealed in the spirit as told to Moses by God' Moses would have no frame of reference to comprehend and relate to others what had happened or how it was accomplished. For that matter he would have no vocabulary to explain the Physical Cosmology. "Let there be light." Pretty much tells you what Moses understood. I have no doubt of Moses' intelligence but the man didn't know about communicable diseases, parasites or the fundamentals of physics, how can you expect his interpretation of the creation to stand up to our current standard of scientific analysis?

If you look at the story as if he is a bright, but barely literate by our standard, man trying to explain it to his contemporaries, things become so much more comprehensible and actually align nicely with current scientific reasoning relative to creation theories. His testimony of creative periods and progression of the Earth from the big bang to coalescence through the creation of life he does a pretty good job of proving the science. The second section, the story of Adam and Eve includes his interpretation of the operative method of bringing about 'flesh of his flesh' and being something more interesting to his life, "Where did i come from" he paid closer attention and can relate the story better albeit in the same simple POV terms of which he was capable.

Good on you Moses. 71.174.4.100 (talk) 07:37, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

how can you expect his interpretation of the creation to stand up to our current standard of scientific analysis? I reckon most of us here don't. Seems like a question better directed at Ken Ham and his ilk. ~ Röbin Liönheart (talk) 21:05, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Talk:Genesis_creation_narrative[edit]

INCONSISTENCIES[edit]

On the two narratives of the Creation Story (Gen. 1:1-2:4a and 2:4b-25), please notice the following inconsistencies: a. In the first narrative, man was created on the sixth day where man the last of God's creation. On the second narrative, notice that man was first to be created. b. In the first narrative, all other creatures (birds, fishes, animals, plants, etc.) created before the creation of man where man created at the same time; both Adam and Eve while in the second narrative, note that Adam was first to be created then followed by the garden in Eden and then by the animal creatures. When none proved to be the suitable partner for man, it was only then that Eve was created where Eve the last to be created. c. In the second narrative, the LORD GOD used the possessive pronoun I ("I will make a suitable partner for man") while in the first narrative, when GOD created man, GOD said "Let US create man..." d. Note that in the first narrative, God created all things using His word (Let there be...) while in the second narrative, Lord God created all creatures including man "out of the (clay of the) ground". e. In the first narrative, everyday of creation was always concluded with the phrase "God saw (his creation) that it was good" while on the second narrative, the Lord God said "IT IS NOT GOOD for man to be alone" considering it is He himself who created the man that is alone. Believe it or not, it is was a mistake. It then brings us to inquiring whether or not the creation of EVE in the original plan when the narrative suggests that had God did not mistakenly created man to be lonely, Eve could not have been created. Note further that the first choice of the Lord God to be the partner of man was animals. Upon notice of man's loneliness, God created different animals (2:19)and the purpose of their creation is to present them to Adam for man to choose which of those animals he may like be his suitable partner. Eve was actually the second choice after Adam rejected animals. Hence the question again, does God know what he was doing? It seems the creation process a matter of TRIAL AND ERROR. And true enough, EVE is a product of ERROR. e. Bible scholars are one in the agreement that the second narrative was written way ahead of the first narrative. Gen 2 (the second story of creation) is therefore the original creation story. But why was it written A POSTERIORI the first narrative. Please consider the same parallel confusion of sequence in the first two books of the New Testament. Mark is an older Gospel than Matthew but chronology seem to follow the same confusion between the two stories of creation in the book of Genesis.

IRREGULARITIES[edit]

a. On the first day of creation, God created LIGHT. On the fourth day, God separated the light that guides the day from the light that guides the night and all other stars and heavenly bodies. Question is; when did God created the SUN? Was it on the first or the fourth day. If it's the latter, what light did He create on the first day? b. It is not correct to call the garden Eden. The correct text states (2:8) "LORD GOD planted a garden in Eden". Eden is the place where the garden was planted and not the garden itself. The narrative even mentioned the location of the garden being "East of Eden". c. Note that in the 2:5, it was stated "the Lord God had not sent RAIN upon the earth". Question: when was rain created? d. Please check the absurd narrative of Chapter 6 about the Nephilim. SONS OF GOD marrying daughters of man and producing sons who were the heroes of the past and the popular men?" Huhhh? e. It seems disenchanting to consider God a SUPREME ALL POWERFUL BEING but possesses the human frailty of REGRET; (6:6) And the LORD was sorry that he had made humankind on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. f. NOTE: GEN 1, the creator was GOD. In GEN 2 and 3, it was the LORD GOD. In 4 to 50, its the LORD.


112.200.2.96 (talk) 15:33, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

We can do something with sourced criticism, but not much with original or unsourced biblical criticism. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 15:37, 27 March 2014 (UTC)