Talk:Genetic engineering

Isolation Section

This section is poorly written, it jumps from isolation to using a PCR. PCR is used to amplify pieces of genetic material and has very little to do with the isolation of genes. Then the final sentence jumps to inserting it into a bacterial plasmid, again this has nothing to do with isolation. This really needs to be re-written or removed. Chemicalsunshine (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:36, 12 May 2011 (UTC).

Vandalism

Citation 65 says "Genetic modification is evil and against god. New virus-built battery could power cars, electronic devices" The article is simply titled "New virus-built battery could power cars, electronic devices." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.153.143.104 (talk) 14:51, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Well spotted. Thanks for pointing it out, I've removed it. Smartse (talk) 17:55, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Comparison with digital revolution

I would like to point out the line "Genetic engineering makes the whole digital revolution look nothing. Digital technology changes what we do. Genetic engineering has the power to change who we are." as being rather close to bias/opinion. What the digital revolution looks like in comparison is debatable, as well as digital technology being capable of altering more than "what we do". Maybe I just don't like the way it's worded, but either way, I vote bias/opinionated on it. Come to think of it, upon reading the article critically I do feel a little bias in terms of the words "immeasurably" being used, and a general positive attitude towards genetic engineering. For the most part the article is well written, and I'm for GM of organisms anyway. It would be nice to see further improvement of this article. - [User:RandomResearcher&Browser] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.2.180.230 (talk) 22:39, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I've removed that from the article as it was a copyright violation, having been copied and pasted from the reference. It didn't make much sense anyway to be honest. Feel free to work on improving the article if you can. Smartse (talk) 23:34, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

List of companies

engaged in GM would be nice. 85.76.4.237 (talk) 14:21, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

biogenetics

Hello, biogenetics redirects here but there is not any mention of this term in this article. Could you delete redirection or only mention this term and its definition? Pamputt (talk) 07:48, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Biogenetics seems to be used to describe anything relating to genetics within biology [1] from anthropology and evolution to genetic engineering. From this it appears to describe cloning and genetic screening as well. Maybe some more information needs to be put into the biogenetics article or it could just redirect to biotechnology instead AIRcorn (talk) 07:16, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

A redirect to biotechnology is probably best as it covers the whole field. Incidentally is the bio- part of biogenetics necessary? I wasn't aware that anything outside of biology had genes! Smartse (talk) 11:06, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Done. Only link to the redirect came from Outline of biochemistry‎ and it included Biotechnology and Genetic engineering under other branches. I therefore removed biogenetics from this article. AIRcorn (talk) 09:26, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Recent Edits

I have added quite a bit of information recently. Most of my knowledge concerns plants so the recent edits are a bit weighted towards that aspect. I will add more info on animals when I can (if no one else does).

I added some information on gene targeting and other site-directed genetic engineering techniques. I also modified the intro to be consistent with this new material. The new information doesn't fit into the current outline perfectly, but I'll leave any major rearrangements to the people that contributed the majority of the material since this is my first edit of this article. I'll also try to expand the somewhat stub-like "opposition and criticism" section when I find the time. ScienceGeekling (talk) 18:11, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Also:

• Genetic engineering is closely linked to and overlaps in many places with genetically modified organism. Would the article benefit from having another italicized statement at the top?

eg For information about the products of genetic engineering see genetically modified organism

Added GMO's early in lead, might not need the hatnote AIRcorn (talk) 04:28, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

• I think the advantages and opposition and criticism sections should be removed. Advantages refers just to GM food, while there is currently no information within the opposition and criticism section. Advantages could be copy/pasted to Genetically Modified food if necessary. There is already an article titled Genetically modified food controversies and the GMO article is half controversy already. I think the broad criticisms could be dealt with in the body of the article and linked where appropriate.

AIRcorn (talk) 07:45, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

• The news external links probably do not need to be there either. They only refer to a single event, many are out of date and they can be used as inline citations if appropriate. AIRcorn (talk) 08:05, 9 July 2010 (UTC) Not sure about the Greenpeace petition either, a link to their page on genetics would be better.

Trimmed AIRcorn (talk) 04:28, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

The edits look good and I agree that the ELs could be trimmed. Looking at the advantages section, everything after what is currently reference 41 looks to be extremely theoretical - e.g "Genetic engineering can also increase the genetic diversity of species populations, especially those that are classified as being endangered" - I've never heard of this before and it seems pretty unlikely - where are the new genes going to come from? Likewise "the modification of a tree's genes could perhaps increase the root systems of these organisms reduce the damage produced by flood phenomena through flood mitigation." AFAIK the only GEd trees were poplar that were engineered to be easier to process into paper and these were uprooted by protestors. I think there definitely needs to be a mention of the potential benefits and problems of using GE - although most are related to GM foods, there are other things like the ethics of designer babies that should really be included in this article. Like you I'm more knowledgable about the plant side of things, so can't be of much use. Smartse (talk) 10:58, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

The benefits and problems should be mentioned, but I think that should be in their particular section. Designer babies under the Human subsection and GM foods under Agriculture. The only problem might be where to fit in criticism of genetic engineering as a whole, but the only one I can think of at the moment is 'whether humans have the right to interfere with nature'. The opposition and criticism section has been here for over a year now and nothing has been added except see alsos and like Smartse points out the advantages section contains a lot of theory and opinion. AIRcorn (talk) 23:23, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Intellectual property arguments could also fit in the opposition and criticism section. Maybe it should stay. AIRcorn (talk) 09:15, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

See also trimming

Removed some links from the see also. AIRcorn (talk) 00:12, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

• Ethics of technology & Research ethics articles had multple problems and the article on Bioethics covers this already.
• Genetic pollution Human Genetic Engineering Transgenic Bacteria & transgene are now linked to in the article. I left Genetically modified food & genetically modified organism however.
• List of emerging technologies did not seem useful
• Genetic Erosion not really about genetic engineering, more appropriate for conventional farming practices

Removed some more that were included in the template. Added some info to the others. Not sure what to do about Biological engineering and Paratransgenesis. Leave as is or put in template? AIRcorn (talk) 04:36, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

External links

Removed these ELs as being out of date. Put here in case anyone wants to use them as inline citations AIRcorn (talk) 04:32, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

• Genetically altered babies born, BBC News, Friday, 4 May 2001
• DEFRA - Genetic Modification (GM)
• BBC News - GM potato trials given go-ahead - 01/12/06
• Sustainable agriculure

Hi, I want to see a link to current issues with GM or a summery.

http://www.foodfirst.org/en/node/2504 Monsanto genetically modified corn harvest fails massively in South Africa

http://current.com/shows/upstream/91945333_monsantos-genetically-modified-corn-causes-organ-failure-in-rats.htm

http://www.naturalnews.com/028388_GM_crops_kidney_damage.html

http://english.ruvr.ru/2010/04/16/6524765.html The researchers discovered that animals that eat GM foodstuffs lose their ability to reproduce.

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2010/05/pests-bite-back-at-genetically.html

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/publications/reports/genetically-engineered-cotton/ Monsanto's genetically engineered (GE) cotton varieties sold to Colombian farmer failed in 2008-9,

http://www.naturalnews.com/027058_crops_food_GMO.html A 43-page study released by the Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS) reveals that since the inception of genetically modified (GM or GMO) crops, no significant increases in crop yields can be attributed to them.

http://www.centerforfoodsafety.org/WhoBenefitsPR2_13_08.cfm GENETICALLY MODIFIED (GM) CROPS INCREASE PESTICIDE USE AND FAIL TO ALLEVIATE POVERTY, REVEALS NEW REPORT

http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/2142.htm In the experiment that went wrong, an engineered mousepox virus acquired the capacity to damage the immune system and killed all the mice involved.

I want to see a balanced wikipedia. I think this deserves it's on wikipedia page with links from other pages on GM foods and animals. My bias is even if it was totally safe it would take the control of our food supply out of the hands of farmers and put it in the hands of corporations who's main concern is to make money, not our health and well being. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.49.42.88 (talk) 16:46, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

More even-handed treatment required

I feel that the article, while generally well-written, is mild boosterism of GMO and genetic modification/engineering. There have been some outstanding failures and that should be mentioned:

• Calgene's Flavr Savr tomatoes were withdrawn from the market for a variety of reasons, including expression of unwanted compounds not found in naturally bred tomatoes, poor flavour which was rejected by consumers, and low yields;

• The transgenic potatoe in the UK that caused a number of lethal changes in the internal organs of test rats;

• The high incidence of insertion of genes in incorrect locations by the gene gun approach which, while producing the desired protein, also produce other known or completely new proteins with known or unknown unwanted effects.

Owing to the rather loose certification procedures of the FDA, where manufacturer's test results are over-relied on, many questionable organisms have been released, for example, transgenic cotton seed expressing undesirable proteins which is used primarily for animal meal.

I am not a biologist and am not competent to edit the article itself, but I refer an editor who is competent to Marie-Monique Robin, The world according to Monsanto: pollution, politics and power (Original French title: Monde selon Monsanto), New Press, New York, 2009. A page that could almost be cut and pasted into this article exists at 'Genetically modified foods'.

Hedley (talk) 08:53, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments, it looks like they would apply more to genetically modified food though rather than this article. Responding to your points, 1 - no it was because calgene did not have experience in selling tomatoes, they where accepted by consumers until the transgenic potato study you cite scaremongered people into thinking they weren't safe - see Flavr_Savr#Tomato_paste. The potato study discussed at Árpád_Pusztai#GM_potato_controversy is not sufficient to say that all GM food is dangerous. Lastly things have moved on a lot in from using the gene gun, and even if genes are inserted with it, breeders will only grow on specimens where they have checked that it doesn't interfere with other processes. The book you cite doesn't sound particularly neutral and I'm not going to go and buy a copy. The info in the link is probably already covered in the GM food article. The most recent scientific review in this field is this. I think it is free, but if it isn't register an email address and I can send you a copy. Smartse (talk) 11:40, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually the argument that it was because calgene did not have experience selling tomatoes is not completely invalid. I would recommend reading an account from one of the researchers who worked at calgene entitled "First Fruit" (Which the author admits her position as being pro genetic engineering). Obviously that is not the only reason but it was a component. Second with what you said about the potato study, determining something is dangerous is pretty vague and any study would be hard pressed to resolve such a question. Now if the question was more specific such as would it have undesirable environmental effects, which could also be considered dangerous, is more easily resolvable. Which is why I don't think the intention of that study was ever to determine if ALL GM food is dangerous but rather a single food. What you are doing is attempting a straw man argument, the research never made the claim you are saying it doesn't meet so of course it doesn't meet your arbitrary requirements. Organisms produced with the gene gun are actually being grown and sold so your claim is invalid because it does not matter if new technology has been developed if the older technology is still in use. For example the Papaya being grown in Hawaii that is resistant to spotted ringspot virus was produced using the gene gun. Also your claim that breeders grow crops is absurd, as breeders produce crops which seed companies sell to growers. The amount of testing required to check safety is arguable, and even under contention between geneticist. What are your credentials to make the claim that there has been enough testing? Chemicalsunshine (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:48, 12 May 2011 (UTC).

Just a typo

In reference #1, "The European Parliament an the council of the" should read "The European Parliament and the Council of the".

STeamTraen (talk) 19:48, 24 February 2011 (UTC) Nick

Y Done Thanks AIRcorn (talk) 20:07, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Multilateral Agreements

Examples of multilateral Agreements —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.27.162.183 (talk) 23:37, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Updated url for Zaid, A; H.G. Hughes, E. Porceddu, F. Nicholas

Under 'Further reading', the glossary by Zaid, A; H.G. Hughes, E. Porceddu, F. Nicholas (2001) is provided. The URL for the glossary was recently changed from http://www.fao.org/biotech/index_glossary.asp and is now http://www.fao.org/biotech/biotech-glossary/en/. Also, translations of 5 other languages are now available at that site, so the text could read Available in English, French, Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, Russian, Polish, Serbian and Vietnamese.

10 October 2011 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ggggggggggbbbb (talk • contribs) 08:01, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 14 March 2012

Genetic engineering is a relatively new and expanding field of technology. Because it is so unfamiliar to many, there are a number of moral issues that arise when considering genetic engineering procedures. Different religions, mothers, scientists, a variety of political parties, and everyday people all have a wide array of views on the rights and wrongs of this technology. Genetic engineering brings up debates over individual autonomy, moral obligation, savior siblings, and pre-human versus human. The argument concerning autonomy focuses on the child being born. Some believe that the individual merely knowing the fact that they are a genetically engineered child will effect their freedom and view of themselves later on in life. Others feel there is no such thing as self-causation and that said child will not change their autonomy solely due to the fact that they’ve been genetically engineered. Moral obligation is a rather complex argument that comes about. There are people who believe that if genetic engineering will help the unborn child, improve its life in any way, then it is our responsibility as humans to help another life. Some feel it should be government regulated, others, such as liberals, believe the government should not be involved at all because it violates our freedoms. Because it is our responsibility as humans to help another human, when does one life become more important than another? What if while performing one of these genetic engineering procedures it puts the mother at risk. Who is the most vital to save, the mother or the child? When is the child considered to be a “living being?” These are the types of questions that arise when addressing pre-human versus human. One must decide whether putting another life at risk is worth saving the other life. Another issue that comes up with similar questions is savior siblings. Savior siblings are those genetically engineered with a certain blood type or genes that can be donated to their sibling. Typical this occurs in families that have a sick child, they decide to have another one that can donate blood, marrow, and organs to their sick sibling. At this point there is a concern for the safety, well being, and overall lifestyle of the savior sibling. Is it fair to them to be brought into this world solely to go to surgery after surgery to save their brother or sister? But at the same time is it right to just let the sick child die when there is something that can be done to save them? One must decide which life has more value. Though genetic engineering itself seems complex the argument surrounding it are even more. With this growing field it will be a long time, if ever, before the morality of genetic engineering is settled, how much of it is right and which parts of it are wrong. Haleshelton (talk) 21:00, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

It would be great to include that! What's the reference? Dru of Id (talk) 21:19, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Please reactivate the request when you answer Dru of Id's question. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 23:41, 14 March 2012 (UTC)