Talk:Genetic history of Europe

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Former good article nominee Genetic history of Europe was a Natural sciences good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
August 9, 2012 Good article nominee Not listed
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Name changes[edit]

The term "genetic history" strikes me as somewhat unusual. What about "Population genetics of Europe".

Bibliography[edit]

  • The reference included in the section "Bibliography", by Adams et al, on religious intolerance and gentics in the iberian peninsula,from Am J Hum Gen is just terrible. Its title clearly indicates an aim outside the scope of a Journal on Human Genetics, and it contains many imprecissions and unproven judgements. No description of the sampling technique is included in the article, and even the ballot surveys describe how they choosed the sample in their data. From the description of "spaniards rueld by 300'000 visigoths" a negative judgement can be inferred, but the goths never ruled the spaniards, they just started acting as state powers when the Roman authority that hired them to be part of the roman army in exchange of being allowed to have shelter inside the roman empire borders,as some other peoples attacked them, when the roman authority faded goths found themselves as the only organized power,and started acting in acordance with their authorities, the romans allowed the goth's authorities to be preserved inside the roman army, and with their own rules. No imposition at all existed in this. The paper speaks about religious intolerance: goths changed their orginal religion, arrianism, to catholicism, in order not to enter in conflict with the rest of spaniards, but many times the facts linked to other religious groups arriving into Spain, some times forced,as some people of jewish orgin may have arrived to Spain forced by the romans,others as invaders, there were several cases when moslim authorities tryed to force christians to endorse moslim faith, or accept Mohammed as a prophet;some catholics become saints when they were killed because of this, and that probably is against the moslim rules, that stablish for the Islam a respect for "The people of the book", jewish and christians,the book named in this being the Bible. Some cases of jewish being blamed for religious violence existed,for example the case of "Santo Dominguito del Val", the history telling that young was crucified, and the expulsion of jewish in 1492 was founded in a supposed declaration of some of them of trying to "Put down the law of Jesus and stablisihing the rule of Moshes law"; even when the descendants of the kings that made the expulsion were ruling, many jews returned years after the expulsion to Spain, and there's no record of them being bothered again. The article uses the word "pogrom", a word of polish origin, but no records exits of violence in Spain specially focusing on jews, and if it was some, it was never worse than violence from some spaniards against other spaniards. The article in Am J Hum Gen speaks about some 20% of today's spanish males having jewish Y chromosome markers, and if it's taken into account that the same article says that at the time of expulsion, jewish were just 4% of the total population in Spain, the growth of this people from 4% in 1492 to 20% of today clearly speaks about no discrimination, at least. The authors have doubts about why the 20% is maintained all over Spain but in the island of Menorca. This island was for some time an english island, and either people of jewish ancestry moved to the british islands looking for a richer environment, or they were chased by the britons. This article in Am J Hum Gen seems containing a lot of propaganda, but from who,and with which goal ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.22.49.96 (talkcontribs) 14:47, 5 November 2011‎

Good Article Review #1[edit]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Genetic history of Europe/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Pyrotec (talk · contribs) 19:55, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

I will review. Pyrotec (talk) 19:55, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Pre-review comments[edit]

This article has a {{update}} flag dated November 2009 in the Genetic studies after Cavalli-Sforza which is sufficient to Quick fail this article without needing a review.
The WP:Lead is also non-compliant with WP:Lead.
I will continue to review this article, but regardless of any other findings, this article will not gain GA-status unless these two items are addressed and the article brought up to standard. Pyrotec (talk) 20:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Looking at the article's history page, this nomination was made by an editor who has not edited this article. It appears to be a drive-by nomination, so I'm closing this review. The article is listed as B-class by most WikiProjects and that appears to be an accurate assessment of the article at this time. Pyrotec (talk) 09:29, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Pyrotec - 3 August 2012 (UTC)

2013 information.[edit]

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-22252099

I am sure this will be again of ¨no¨interest. Pipo.

European "ancient" people[edit]

This article is, in the usual wikiedia style, full of contradictions, old information, wrong information and for the most part plain nonsense. For example it states that European genetic code is quite uniform, and then it contradicts itself by mentioning Basks and Portuguese as distinctly "most ancient" European people. People of the I y-haplogroup are recognised as the ONLY autohtone European people, that meaning that they are the MOST ancient European group of people. So how on earth are Basks and Portuguese older then? Especially when all genetic studies point at their genetic haplogroup being overwhelmingly R1b, which is a younger mutation of Slavic R1a. Which in turn identifies Basks and Portuguese just as old as any of the other European nation with the predominant R1b y-haplogroup - not very "ancient" at all.

Some people are simply hell-bent on promoting their stupid ideas and religious/ethnic delusions. The genes do not lie, only people do. And many of them even sport some sort of "university" degree, sadly. And they seem to be getting away with manipulating the genetic science to their liking. With the changed nomenclature recently, their despicable job is made even easier, as it confuses the hell out of supposed experts, let alone an average Diego trying to make sense of his possible genetic ancestry.

There are many other plain demented statements that should really be deleted, but once everything that is wrong is removed, there would remain very little to justify this article at all. I suggest whoever is the admin to delete this abominable and pseudo-intellectual garbage completely. There are better articles (of little value, of course... this is only wikipedia - the pit for failed wannabe scientists to play and pose as the real ones.) even in wikipedia, so this one is completely unnecessary. Especially as it contradicts those wikipedia articles on the same subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.117.102.60 (talk) 13:31, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately that isn't enough reason for me to delete it. I disagree with your comment about 'usual Wikipedia style", but I'd say that it does apply to a lot of not most of our articles relating to ethnic groups or nationality and genetics. So, please go ahead and try to fix it. Or bring good sources here, by which I mean peer reviewed sources. Dougweller (talk) 14:50, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
It needs updating , surely. But who cares about who is the oldest people in Europe - noone is the "oldest". All nations are more or less equally new in Europe - from the 18th century onwards. Genes tell a wholly different story which is unrelated to culture, religion or nation-making. And, there are no real autochthons - all lineages came to Europe from either the Near east or central Asia. Slovenski Volk (talk) 14:28, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Here you have an update. Just off the oven, a study in Spain: Another recent study in Spain: http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2014/10/10/results-from-asturias-spain-add-to-the-genographic-project-human-family-tree

From there, the following is cut and pasted:

Among the 100 people who participated, most (>80%) of their maternal lineages belonged to one of the seven major European haplogroups (branches on the human family tree). Lineages from the Middle East and North Africa were also present, but in smaller numbers (between 5 and 10% each), and one participant had Native American maternal ancestry, not commonly found among the Spanish.

Maternal haplogroup H was the most common branch among participants, accounting for more than a third of lineages. Interestingly, the ancestral haplogroup HV, with ties to early agriculturalists from the Middle East or possibly Europe’s earliest settlers, was found in eleven Asturians present. Overall, the maternal results showed a high frequency of some of Europe’s oldest lineages, a pattern similar to their Basque neighbors, also from northern Spain.

Haplogroup R1b was the reoccurring lineage for paternal ancestry, accounting for nearly 75% of male participants in this group. R1b is the most common European Y-chromosome branch, and nearly 60% of European men carry this lineage. One interesting finding revealed, however, was that many of the men came from lesser known branches of the R1b, suggesting their exact origin remains a mystery. Among the paternal lineages only one had ties to Europe’s fist modern humans.

Before modern humans arrived in Iberia about 40,000 years ago, Neanderthals ruled Spain. And although most anthropologists agree that humans and Neanderthals mixed, a point of interest among the participants was the unusually low percentage of Neanderthal in their DNA. The people from Asturias on average carried only 1.5% Neanderthal DNA, compared to the 2.5% average observed among most other modern European groups.

National Geographic’s roots in Asturias go deeper than DNA. In 2006, it was awarded the Prince of Asturias Award for Communication in 2006 for its efforts to inspire people to care about the planet. To learn more about National Geographic’s Genographic Project and discover your own ancient ancestry, visit www.genographic.com

Pipo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.73.133.221 (talk) 22:53, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Video clip on the genetic history of Europeans, especially the British[edit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEL7nCM5itg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFQiuGvxMd0 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.73.133.236 (talk) 15:44, 3 January 2015 (UTC)