Talk:Genetic history of Italy

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Have you seen maps about genetic clustering[edit]

Have you seen maps about genetic clustering? have a look: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_xpkMgKYA7g8/SLxhFUYq2YI/AAAAAAAAAwI/VEkU6xPTlKo/s400/Europegenetics.jpg http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/jewpc3.jpg http://www.taiwandna.com/germanchart1.png Italians happen to clusters between Iberians and Greeks, othetr population that are genetically similar with italians are romanians, macedonians, ashkenazi jewish... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Giuggiola90 (talkcontribs) 22:59, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

@ 69.142.241.118, I would notice the Marche region is surely part of central italy, as some areas of Tuscany also populated by the gallic/celtic immigrants another point is the deletion of the Alpine region which is walso wrong being that a different geographical region then the Po valley and the Emilian-Romagnol-Tuscan Apennine about Sicily and Southern Italy I guess the 14% R1 haplogroup estimations are related to minimums registered in the areas when the regional average is higher, probably the phrasing also in the original text wasn't accurate Cunibertus (talk) 10:09, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Where are you getting your information? Italians do not cluster with Askenazi Jews. The only people who cluster similar to them are Sicilians. I don't where you got this information from but its innacurate. Ashkenazi Jews cluster more with other Mid East populations than they do anyone in Europe. Contrary to popular belief Ashkenazi Jews did not do much intermixing with European populations, and still retain homogenity and distinctiveness from all European populations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C4EA:CA0:5DE7:F6A3:1FED:38E2 (talk) 23:06, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

USELESS and NONSENSE MAPS[edit]

this article speaks about genetic history of italy, not about physical aspects of italians. phenotypes are not correlated with genotypes! maps that describe the percentage of light or dark hair and eyes are part of anthropological researches realised in 19th century (they are outdated), and not concernig an article about the genetics —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.10.223.33 (talk) 22:43, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

but isn't fair simply delete maps or inforamations when you do not like them, and lying about the reasons you did it
Anthropological maps of Italy. Pigmentation eyes & hair (1859-63) and height (1859-63 in light green and 1978 in dark green).
Percentage of blond hairs in the italian regions, from the study of Ridolfo Livi conducted between 1859 and 1863 on the records of the National Conscription Service (from Renato Biasutti - Razze e popoli della Terra - 1941)

The regions with the highest Haplogroup R1b concentration are Emilia-Romagna, and Lombardy. The regions with the lowest concentration are Sardinia, Campania, Calabria, and Sicily.


without mentioning the rest of the damage a a couple of vandals (or only one ?) have done to the article Cunibertus (talk) 17:16, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

apparently there is only one in violation of NPOV rule so I have to apologize with the other user. about the article is not about anthropology that can be easily changed with a specific minor section, but it isn't really iportant.

about more genetic issue related figures I would suggest to those interested in it: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mappageneticaitalia.jpg http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:R1bItalia.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/archive/d/da/20090720180158%21R1bItalia.png http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:J2%2BE3bItalia.jpg this one is specifically about sardinia http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sardinia_haplogroups.jpg Cunibertus (talk) 19:01, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

"USELESS and NONSENSE MAPS" how are you so sure about that ? Cunibertus (talk) 19:51, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
btw, why didn't you remove also the cephalic index map of Sardinia ? wasn't it also a 19th century thing ? Cunibertus (talk) 06:22, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

ok remove also cephalic index of sardinia, i haven't seen it! 62.10.236.105 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:39, 25 August 2010 (UTC).

Personally, I hadn't any problem with it Cunibertus (talk) 18:38, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

"phenotypes are not correlated with genotypes". This is the most idiotic thing I have read on these genetics talkpages in a while. --dab (𒁳) 18:54, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Eastern adriatic[edit]

Tyrrhenian Sea.

Changing the generic phrase "Eastern Mediterranean" (intended as Basin) to "Eastern Adriatic" is scientifically an unsupported claim, or a geographical mistake. Considering that the limits of the Adriatic sea are fixed on the Strait of Otranto now we have to read correctly the whole section as that the J haplogrous too developed and are characteristic of Albania (or entered in Italy through Albania). Till now I didn't know the borders of Great Albania encompassed both Kurdistan and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. A significant part of the J haplogroup in Italy, but probably not ALL, is indoubtably due to the greek contributions, but Greece isn't located in the Eastern Adriatic. Cunibertus (talk) 06:08, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism or POV[edit]

I personally adjusted part of the uncorrected editings, apparently there is only one possible vandal here. Someone who doesn't like the mixed nature of the italian genetics apparently. Cunibertus (talk) 18:51, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Some details about italian ethnicities[edit]

Linguistic borders according to Def. 1[1][2][3][4] (Northern Italian in gold/ green).

If anyone doesn't notice it Italy is the home of an infinite variety of ethnic populations (G. Devoto). 1. The high percentages of R1b in Marche is due to the high level of celticization by gaulish celts around 400 BC. Marche at least the northern part = Ager Gallicus, see the linguistical map here enclosed, the gallo-italic Italy is in gold. 2. Liguria despite being a northern region, and now speaking a Gallo-italian language was the home of the non-indoeuropean Ligurians and that's the reason it shares so many genetical similarities with the Mediterranean areas of the south. then no more generalizations in the voice Cunibertus (talk) 19:48, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

E3b is not E3a[edit]

I guess when someone inserted the genetic data about Sardinia also changed E3b in E1b1a (Y-DNA), I may be wrong about sardinians (and I believe not) but I also believe that the rest of the italians are more related to the E1b1b (Y-DNA) group from Albania and the Balkans then to a characteristic haplogroup from sub-saharan africa Cunibertus (talk) 22:10, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Btw, and in the thumb you also need to mention you added Sardinia, as the region is so divergent that it is usually excluded from the genetic data collection for Italy, differently che data would be useless. have you ever read somethig by Cavalli-Sforza ? Cunibertus (talk) 22:16, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
never mind, may be it was an old mistake Cunibertus (talk) 22:19, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

A Newer Study on northern and southern Italian samples[edit]

First of all, I am not a geneticist lol, but being part Italian I am interested in Italian genetics. I recently stumbled upon a map created by Dutch geneticist Manfred Kayser in 2008 that sort of seems to blur this statement in this article: "South Italian samples clustered with South east and south central European samples (so basically the Balkans), and Northern groups with West Europe (i.e. the French and Spaniards etc.)

In his study (MAP here: [1]) there are two Italian samples. A north-central sample (labelled IT2) from the looks of it in the Marche region of Italy and a second sample, which to me seems a bit south of Rome, more or less straddling the southern Italian region of Campania labelled IT1.

To me I found it obvious that the southern sample almost totally subsumes the north-central Italian sample and heavily overlaps the Spaniards, and Portuguese, and touches France. The southern sample also touches the Romanians which makes sense since all these groups mentioned were heavily influenced by Rome. Other populations with relative genetic closeness to the southern sample were the countries of former Yugoslavia, Greeks, Austrians and Swiss. Another study if I read it right seemed to suggest the northern and southern Italians have a genetic variation of 27% which is significant but it is not enough to differentiate two populations. Find here [2].

So to me I find it just slightly annoying when even people of south-Western European descent point out that somehow southern Italians are somehow Balkan but concede their relatedness to northern Italians. I completely understand that perhaps if the southern example was taken from Puglia perhaps a more Balkan influence would be seen, but at the end of the day to me, I would consider the Romans in general to have had the greatest influence on the Italian people, and I dont see much a HUGE genetic difference between someone from Piemonte to Molise or Emilia Romagna to Abruzzo. The Italian peninsula is not THAT big after all... Galati (talk) 04:02, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

To Galati: "In Europe and in Italy the phenomenon of Romanization has made ​major contributions to the cultural, political and historical populations, however, did not reveal a role at the genetic homogenization" (Cavalli Sforza Luigi L.; Menozzi Paolo; Piazza Alberto, The History and Geography of Human Genes - Abridged paperback edition)

Historical population[edit]

"... the Beaker culture, which probably represents the western branch of the Corded Ware culture, ..." is idiosyncratic nonsense, and, to my humble knowledge, not the opinion of a single archaeologist. I thus altered the sentence. HJJHolm (talk) 08:11, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Genetic composition[edit]

The sentence, "and R1a arrived in the Chalcolithic with the migrations of the Proto-Indo-Europeans." urgently needs a reliable source. It appears to be mere phantasy in different extensions. HJJHolm (talk) 09:28, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Remove the Map of languages in Italy[edit]

I don't see any kind of relation about genetics and language spoken by a population. Are Congolese people and the People of Quebec from Canada the same from a genetic and ethnic point of view because they speak the same language? In this map is shown a map that shows that in Sardinia was spoken the Punic, the Punics were Phoenicians from Middle East, but all modern genetic surveys show that Sardinians have some of the lowest west asian and south west asian admixtures among europeans, much lower than italian average, so that map is out of place! http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/4/4a/20120924005000%21Iron_Age_Italy.svg ?!?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_UOHFTxL-bOA/TOYpHMIrsVI/AAAAAAAAAOE/on63ho681uI/s1600/ADMIXTURE10.jpeg http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt279/german24/West-Asian-admixture.gif

Melting point[edit]

"Melting point" is a temperature! 'Melting pot' or 'meeting point'? Heavenlyblue (talk) 01:36, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

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  1. ^ Ali, Linguistic atlas of Italy
  2. ^ Linguistic cartography of Italy by Padova University
  3. ^ Italiand dialects by Pellegrini
  4. ^ AIS, Sprach-und Sachatlas Italiens und der Südschweiz, Zofingen 1928-1940