Talk:Geneva Initiative (2003)
Why not post full text? Is there any reason?
- Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a source repository. See http://sources.wikipedia.org/ for somewhere that is. Morwen 22:18, Dec 23, 2003 (UTC)
- Not only not the full text, not even enough to compare this proposal to others. OneVoice 12:28, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Regarding Mr Beilin's sources of funds....sources have some measure of influence on the outcomes....how much is very difficult to determine, yet the effect or potential for effect is undeniable. In the USA there is a law regarding such matters: The Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA). The purpose of FARA is to insure that the American public and its law makers know the source of information (propaganda) intended to sway public opinion, policy, and laws. Similar logic applies to campaign funding contributions. Policies and procedures of other countries may require a different standard of disclosure. One can also argue the extent to which Mr Beilin is under the direction or control of a foreign principal.
However, it is telling that Mr Beilin sought funds overseas to promote the proposal. It begs the question of whether or not the proposal could/can though domestic donations fund its own promotion. If it can not, the viability of the proposal is questionable.
This is not to say that American law applies to Mr Beilin or that Israel has a foreign agents registration act (does it?). Rather the principle is universal in application and therefore important to the Accords. OneVoice 12:28, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)
- Beilin's salary is utterly irrelevant. Nor did you establish that the European Union provided any direct funding at all; the CAMERA article where you got that information only refers to members of the EU providing funding, not the EU itself. The link you gave to ECF is on an Israeli goverment web site, which shows that your attempt to paint it as a subversive foreign organization is a bit off, to put it mildly. --Zero 13:06, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Zero0000, if you can find another link for the ECF, I would prefer to use it. I believe that you would as well. The salary is of material interest to people. Who butter's a person's bread or provides that bread, gives possible insight into the person's actions. Please find a non-Israeli government ECF site. OneVoice 17:31, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)
- This is an article about the Geneva Accords, not about Yossi Beilin. His salary is irrelevant. Why don't we put in Sharon's salary (and maybe his alleged take on the side) as well? Mention of ECF is only relevant if it has a substantial role, which you have not demonstrated. --Zero 23:16, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Zero0000, I regret that we have been unable to find a link to the ECF that you find more acceptable. If you want to add Sharon's salary, etc to a page regarding some initiative or agreement, that would be appropriate. The considerations I have outlined (FARA, etc) apply to all. Even you and I. There are no conspiracy theories, only facts that Mr Beilin would corraborate. Was there a reason to remove the size of the promotional budget? You did not mention that in your comment above. OneVoice 10:22, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)
- I have no objection to the link -- I object to mentioning ECF at all without proof of its importance. everyone can see that Beilin's salary is NOT important. rubbish like this is just to avoid the content of the accords. --Zero 11:51, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Zero0000, Yale, the Simon Weisenthal Center and CAMERA are not trash websites. The Geneva Accords sponsor do not provide public information on their funding. This is most regrettable. We would both much prefer the information to come from them. However that does not seem to be an option at this time. (verifable information required, something that can be viewed by more than one person.) Hopefully, it will change in the near future. Please add additional sources or information that you find.
I'll move Mr Beilin's salary to the ECF page.
"avoid the content of the accords" ??? How does this information "avoid the content of the accords"?
Zero0000, rather than "argumentation by assertion" would you care to respond to the first section of this page regarding FARA and the stated reasons that FARA, campaign financing and other disclosure laws/regulations have been adopted. OneVoice 14:26, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)
OneVoice, what is your evidence about Maale Adumin? Do you have the map that shows the proposed border in the Jerusalem region? --Zero 23:04, 17 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Zero0000, thank you, at my age I should check each time rather than rely upon my memory. There is a "lollipop" that would include Maale Adumim in Israel. I have changed to the page to reflect this. Ariel would not be included per maps OneVoice 19:34, 18 Feb 2004 (UTC)