Talk:George V

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older entries[edit]

In the City of Worcester, England, there is a public Museum and Art Gallery.

There is a stone inscription that the building was opened by The Duke of York in (1896? 1897?).

I had not realised until now that that person was later King George V.

Hopefully, once this is checked for date and wording the page could have added a note that his former title is preserved in stone in that building.

Does anyone know of any building opened by him as Prince of Wales where an inscription is readily viewable?

Songwriter 18:53 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Lake George, Uganda[edit]

Somewhere in this article it should be mentioned that Lake George in Uganda is named after George V. mark 15:20, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

...and also other things named after him, like King George V DLR station and George V Paris Métro station. 217.208.26.177 15:18, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Princess May[edit]

The article metions that he marries "Princesses Mary" but then goes onto refer to her as 'May' is this correct or a typo? I don;t know enough about the subject to just go and change it.

HSH Princess Victoria Mary Augusta Luisa Olga Pauline Claudine Agnes of Teck was generally known as "Princess May" before her marriage. - Nunh-huh 18:58, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Her name was actually Victoria Mary, generally known as Mary of Teck. She was only called May within her family; nobody ever referred to her as Princess May outside her family, and inside the family they just called her May. When she became queen her husband wanted her to use just one name, and neither thought Queen Victoria would be proper for obvious reasons (Victoria had only been dead nine years) Therefore she decided to be called Queen Mary. RockStarSheister (talk) 23:52, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

George V has tattooes?[edit]

A few days ago this article had the following note:

"King George V was a very short and slender man, although in movies and television he is often portrayed as a tall and intimidating man. Though his true height was a "state secret," it believed he was no taller then 5 feet 5 inches. The King also had a few tattoos on his arms which he had gotten done during his days in the navy. After becoming King, he would never allow them to been seen in public again."

About his height, I remember the photo taken with King George and Tsar Nicholas II of Russia side by side, as you can see in this site:

http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Windsor;action=display;num=1093459758

They seem to had the same height and I know that the Tsar had 1,67 m, so King George had about the same!


King Geogre V has tattoes from many different parts of the Empire?!

Is that true? If so, thats hilarious.--129.12.200.49 09:44, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

There was an incident related by his official biographer, Harold Nicolson that when on a tour of the Botanical Gardens in Barbados George smelt a large lily which resulted in his nose being powdered with yellow pollen. A journalist mistook this for a permanent mark and cabled home saying that the Prince had been tatooed on the nose. Obviously, he had not been. DrKiernan 12:07, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

From Kenneth Rose's biography (King George V London:Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1983 p.13): "In Tokyo each spent three hours under the needle acquiring elaborate dragons of red and blue on their arms. Further designs were added in Kyoto and in Jerusalem.[1] George Burchett, the doyen of British tatooists, was many years later able to inspect the ornaments which Prince George continued to carry for the rest of his life. 'I was honoured', he wrote demurely in his memoirs, 'to be called upon to make certain improvements to them which the King instituted on Queen Mary's suggestion.[2]"

  1. ^ John Neale Dalton, The Cruise of HMS Bacchante vol.II p.41, 46 and 99
  2. ^ George Burchett, Memoirs of a Tatooist (Oldbourne, 1958) p.100

DrKiernan 09:29, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

My grandpa, a WW1 veteran, was inspected by the King and it seems his lack of height was a source of amusement to the men. "We thought he'd be a great big man, and he were (sic) only a little man" as he put it. It may of course be that he was of average, or just below average, height, but not the giant of a man suggested by his public portraits (this used to be not uncommon in public figures - Stalin being a classic example). In one TV series he was played by Tom Hollander, whose shortness is often used to comic effect.Paulturtle (talk) 14:01, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Succession box[edit]

Could someone who knows about succession boxes change it please? I tried to but got lost. It was wrong before: It says his title as "King of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" was succeeded by new style (before listed as King of Great Britain and Ireland but now correctly changed to King of THE UNITED KINGDOM of Great Britain and NORTHERN Ireland), then goes on to say the new style was preceded by Edward VII!!! This can't be so if it was a NEW style as it wouldn't have existed under Edward VII! I tried to change it so it read "preceded by New Style" but couldn't move Emperor of India -- could someone help me out? Cheers.

I've played with the boxes a bit—is that what you were looking for? --Mackensen (talk) 07:03, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Yep thats perfect thanks!

Kaiser and Tsar v. Emperor[edit]

I'm not up on all the intricacies of Wikipedia's policy on royal titles, but why does this article use "Emperor" instead of "Kaiser" or "Tsar" when (to me, at least) it seems appropriate? "Emperor Wilhelm II" made me second guess myself and actually click on the link to make sure it was who I thought it was; is there a reason those non-English yet more familiar titles aren't used? Is there a technicality I'm missing? Kafziel 04:34, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't think that usage is so overwhelmingly dominated by one way that there is any demand to do one thing or the other. I do agree that "Emperor Wilhelm II" seems odd. "Kaiser Wilhelm II" or "Emperor William II" seem more appropriate. But, to be honest, it doesn't really matter. john k 05:40, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Is there any good reason not to use Kaiser, the term English-speakers are familiar with for the German Emperor? I will wait 24 hours to make a change. -Rrius (talk) 21:42, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Help wanted to deal with a George V of the United Kingdom spammer[edit]

Every so often a spammer using an IP address that starts with 64.228.225. spams links to bogus web sites. I have tracked down and reverted all I could find, but I'm getting a little sick of tracking all these articles on my watchlist (it's up to 263 pages by now). Can I ask the regular, frequent editors of this article to keep an eye out for this person? If they hit again, please revert the edit and warn the spammer. If you have the time, check out what other edits they made that day and revert them as well -- or just let me know and I'll do it.

The link they like to add to this article is [http:// kinggeorge rules it/ King-Emperor George V Tribute Page]. The real point of the link is to build search engine rankings for the commercial links at the bottom of the page; the same spamdexer is linking similarly bogus pages for Hindu mystical figures and U.S. country music stars -- all with the same links at the bottom of the page.

The spammer also recently created an account, User:Borgengruft.

For more info, see:

Thanks for your help.--A. B. 06:06, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

George V, Czar Nicholas II Resemblance[edit]

>>It is often claimed that at the wedding, many people were confused as to who was King George V and who was Tsar Nicholas II of Russia, because they superficially looked alike. In fact, the two cousins resembled each other only insofar as their beards and dress were concerned. Otherwise, their features were quite different.<<

Then, in a later paragraph: >>The two men were almost identical in appearance. According to legend, Nicholas was mistaken for George at the latter's own wedding reception.<<

References to appearance are basically opionion(in my opinion, the second statement is closer to the truth than the first, particularly regarding their height, high foreheads, noses, and even eyes---see photo: http://www.firstworldwar.com/photos/graphics/nw_nicholas_george_01.jpg ). Regardless, this is subjective commentary and should be removed and left for readers to decide. That fact that there are two contradictory statements in the same entry only highlights this fact.

The idea that the two men were similar looking is a very common one - I'm sure we could find reliable sources mentioning this. It is famous that the two have been thought to look alike. I think we should mention that, without actually saying that they did look alike, if that makes any sense. john k 12:51, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I have added an original source from the day after the wedding, when The Times reported that the "extraordinary likeness" of the Tsarevitch for the Duke of York "may have contributed to secure for him additional cheers." I do however still think that we should keep in the sentence saying that they were not alike. Their eyes are totally different, and we can use the evidence of our own eyes to know that this is true. DrKiernan 13:21, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

They weren't identical, certainly, but they did resemble each enough that their similar beards made them hard to distinguish. That seems to be the fact of it. john k 13:56, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmmn. I agree with your previous comment that we need to come up with a well-turned phrase that covers both aspects. DrKiernan 14:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)


Nicholas & George.jpg

Do the two men in this image look the same to you? If so, you are a racist and a ageist and a hairist who thinks all middle-aged white men with beards look the same! (Even when one has brown eyes and the other protruding blue ones?) As a middle-aged white man with a beard I object to your discrimination and demand that it be stopped!!! DrKiernan 07:49, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how serious you're being, but yes, they do look alike to me. Certainly one is not surprised to learn that they are first cousins. They have similar noses, for instance, and the shape of their faces is similar, as well. Obviously they are not identical twins, but there is definitely a distinct resemblance. john k 17:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Andrew Gordon (naval historian) writing in Rules of the Game:Jutland and British naval command, p. 217 talks about the differences between the royal princes Eddy and george, who concern the book because of Royal influence in the doings of the navy, and says:

It has been suggested that in fact they may have only been half-brothers, George's natural father being the Russian Grand Duke Nicholas. this disgraceful idea grates with everything believed about his saintly mother Alexandra, but is circumstantially possible, for in September 1864 when George was conceived, the Walses were at Elsinore in denmark meeting Nicholas, who was getting engaged to Alexandra's sister dagmar (who actually married the grand duke alexander after Nicholas' sudden death). To have been fathered by Nicholas would have made george a double first cousins of the future Czar Nicholas II, of whom he appeared to be an identical twin: their mothers being sisters and their natural fathers being brothers. Do you trust gordon as a source? of course, he carefull side-steps stating whether he beelieves the paternity thing, but does state they were identical. Sandpiper (talk) 22:10, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Sounds like a lot of hooey. Dagmar married Alexander not Nicholas. If you look at the eyes of George V and Nicholas II and their fathers, you can see a clear resemblance between Nicholas and his father, Alexander III of Russia—both have inset brown eyes—whereas if you look at George he has the same protruding blue eyes as his father (Edward VII of the United Kingdom). DrKiernan (talk) 09:13, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
well, my laziness for sticking in a .... I have inserted the entire text where i left out the dotted bit. There is also a footnote citing Mark Kerr, the navy in my time, published 1933, which presumably says something about their meeting. I would guess, his memoirs about being on the trip and escorting them. Sort of thing you might be able to prove by genetic testing...but then they did that, didn't they, to try to identify the Romanovs remains? I am tempted to say that my looking at a picture would be original research and inadmissable on wiki, whereas quoting someone who wrote a book about it is entirely proper. Not that i am a great stickler for rules, nor would want to further rumours. Gordon is clearly stating the question exists and has been raised historically, which is entirely proper for him or us to do. he passes on the entertaining story without coming down one side or the other. My own opinion of the photo you post above is that the two faces are quite similar to the limits of the image resolution. I don't see the eye colour, myself. Both men seem to have a more open left eye than right. probably due to the lighting, unless it is an inherited family trait? The guy on the left looks to have a finer nose and for my money is the more handsome. But the nose could be a trick of the light: the two are turned slightly towards each other thus shadowing the nose of the guy on the left. (nicholas, I think. Personally, i know someone who looks an awful lot like george's son david, but i doubt they are related....though his mother was adopted from whereabouts unknown. Yes, looking at the original image on wiki as per the article, I would definitely say my friend looked more like george than Nicholas. So i guess i agree they are not identical. Which however doesn't solve the issue. They are definitely similar and they are all European royalty, virtually by definition related. Sandpiper (talk) 18:13, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Just spotted the link to the pic on the net, which is higher resolution. It is clear to me from that one, that some of the differences are definitely areas of face obscured by shadow. Nicholas' allegedly non-protruding left eye is definitely in shadow, thus masking it. I think I would say Nicholas looks a bit like prince albert (the one who married queen victoria).Sandpiper (talk) 18:25, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Death[edit]

Murdered by his Doctor?[edit]

Why is the euthansia bit in a footnote... seems like main text information to me. Pcb21| Pete 09:49, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[2] It has recently been alleged that King George was murdered by his court physician, Dr. Watson. The King, in great pain, was resolute and strongly resisting passing while on his deathbed. According to some sources, Dr. Watson injected the king with a lethal combination of cocaine and morphine the night of his death so that he would not survive into the morning. Dr. Watson's excuse was to speed the king's death and end suffering and also so that his death could be reported in the morning edition of The Times.
"According to some sources" - what sources? Mintguy (T) 10:05, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
There seems to be a number of these sorts of allegations and rumours creeping into English royalty pages. Queen Victoria's page is similarly afflicted. I'm very tempted to start taking these things out -they seem to be giving the articles a gossip column flavour, and they certainly don't seem very NPOV to me. Arno 00:41, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I totally agree with this statement - - we have to purge out gossip and hearsay. While the sources cited below seem to be impeccable, the suggestion that the "lethal dose" was administered at the behest of George V's wife Mary is calumny - Anon
The source of this story, which is closer to established fact than "gossip", is Lord Dawson of Penn's (Watson's) own diary, the contents of which became widely known in the 1980s when his biography was published, and the diary was used as a source. In terms of online sources, there is this article in the British Medical Journal, which states that Dawson "administered a lethal combination of morphine and cocaine at a time when the king was already comatose and close to death. His action remained a well kept secret and the truth came to light only 50 years later when his private diary was opened, Dawson having died in 1945.". The diary also contains the rationale for the euthenasia, which is correct as stated in the article. - Nunh-huh 22:23, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Further references:
Kelleher MJ. "Arranging the death of a king." Crisis. 1998;19(1):6-7.
Ramsay JH. "A king, a doctor, and a convenient death." British Medical Journal. 1994 May 28;308(6941):1445.
Watson F. "The death of George V." History Today. 1986 Dec;36:21-30.
Lelyveld J. "1936 secret is out: doctor sped George V's death." The New York Times. 1986 Nov 28;:A1, A3.
-- Nunh-huh 22:39, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
So its Dawson. Not Watson. Well I'm glad I asked. Mintguy (T) 22:58, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC) I've got him pinned down now. He was Bertrand Edward Dawson, 1st Viscount Dawson of Penn

[The Doctor administered drugs] to end the King's suffering, and perhaps hoped the monarch would die before midnight so that his death could be announced in the morning Times

I don't dispute that King George was administered drugs which might have hastened his death, such things happen relatively frequently at the end of life. What surprises me is the allegation that 'perhaps' this was done deliberately for the sake of newspaper coverage. Such an act would be legally regarded as murder; is there a credible source for the fact that King George was murdered in this way? (a primary source, not mere repetition of a rumour). All facts, especially controversial facts, must be credibly referenced - I'm sure we all know this. The doctor 'perhaps hoped', well did he or didn't he? Is there actual proof of this other than hearsay and innuendo? Xdamr 01:20, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Though George was apparently euthanised by injections of morphine and cocaine (ironically the very drugs his son the Duke of Kent was addicted to and made to go on cold turkey from), what exactly was the terminal illness from which he was dying? Lec CRP1 00:18, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Emphysema. DrKiernan 07:37, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, that's over-simplistic. A more accurate diagnosis would be Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease, which includes all the illnesses that he suffered in the years leading up to his death, including pleurisy, bronchiectasis and bronchitis (and emphysema). All of which are, of course, caused by smoking. The final illness he suffered in the winter of 1935-6 was acute bronchial infection. DrKiernan 09:48, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Added more detail about his health problems. The horse accident was the start of many health issues for him. Corrected the fact that all his sons and his wife deputized for him on many occasions while he was ill, not just the Prince of Wales. Gwenchick (talk) 02:54, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Regicide[edit]

His end was hastened by his physician, Lord Dawson of Penn, who gave him a lethal injection of cocaine and morphine to ease his suffering and also that the news of his death could be announced in the morning edition of The Times newspaper.

ref. Francis Watson, The Death of George V In: History Today (1986) vol.36, pp.21-30

I see this allegation has come back (bold text). Given its serious nature I think that the exact nature of the History Today article needs to be explored. Is is mere repetition of a rumour, or is is a piece of original research or scholarship? I'm not sure that History Today fulfils the requirements of WP:RS, but it depends what the assertion is. It really requires a pretty watertight source to provide conclusive evidence of the doctor's motives; if History Today provides this evidence, fine - if not then an allegation like this hurts the credibility of the article as a whole. Xdamrtalk 12:43, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

The only source has already been discussed above. It is Lord Dawson's diary as quoted by Francis Watson in his article in 'History Today' (he discovered the diary during his research for his biography of Dawson published in 1950). The quote from the diaries is repeated in other respectable journals, such as the British Medical Journal: "Dawson frankly admits in his diary..<snip>..to ensure that the announcement of the king's death should appear first in the morning edition of the Times". It is only one of the reasons mentioned: Dawson devotes more lines to discussing the strain the family was under, the dignity of the King, and that the King would not regain consciousness. He admits that it was his sole decision and action (although he says the Prince of Wales told Dawson that Edward and Queen Mary did not want the King's life to be prolonged unnecessarily). That December Dawson spoke out against the legalisation of euthanasia in the House of Lords, on the basis that such an important decision should be left in the hands of professionals rather than bureaucrats. You can read the article online for a fee at http://www.historytoday.com :DrKiernan 08:34, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Ok, that sounds reasonable enough. Perhaps this could do with better explanation in the article itself? Coming across this allegation, I took it to be part of the regrettable modern tendency to make discreditable insinuations against past figures on flimsy evidence or mere rumour. Noting in the main text that the inference in question comes from Dawson's own diary would eliminate this suggestion.
Xdamrtalk 23:33, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree entirely, and have made the appropriate changes. DrKiernan 08:46, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't have the cite and therefore will not change the article, but I read that the reason he was given the fatal injection was that if he had lived another twelve hours and then expired, the death would have been originally reported in the less auspicious afternoon papers. By speeding up the process when he did, the doctor guaranteed that the King's death would be initially reported in the more highly respected morning papers. Like I said, I may be wrong and have no cite, so I'm not putting it in the article. It's just something I read once. RockStarSheister (talk) 23:56, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

In the PBS video, "The Windsors: A Royal Family," the statement is made that Lord Dawson of Penn wanted the King's death to be reported in the Times rather than in the "lesser organs of the afternoon." The video continues by saying that Dawson instructed a nurse to inject the King with cocaine and morphine. The nurse, to her credit, refused to participate. So Lord Dawson committed the vile deed himself. The video concludes the segment by stating that this act of royal euthanasia went unreported for 50 years after the King's death.

John Paul Parks (talk) 06:43, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

This is already in the article, and the detail can be found in the two references given there (Francis Watson's original article, and J. H. R. Ramsay's later commentary). DrKiernan (talk) 07:13, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
OK. So there is primary evidence that Dawson "hastened" the King's death. Wikipedia's article on Lord Dawson elaborates on that, and there are several sources; Dawson's own diary contains the admission. So, the King was indeed murdered by Lord Dawson (as to the qualification of this fact as murder, one has to keep in mind that Eutanasia wasn't legal; Dawson acted on his own; no one authorized it; British law prescribes that the killing of a King constitutes the crime of high treason, etc). So, why not indicate in the article that this fact, if known at the time would have been regarded as regicide, as high treason? The article itself mentions that Dawson's motives had to do with the King's death being announced in the morning papers, and not in the less important ones that circulated in the afternoon. The article itself mention that the dying King cursed when he saw that he was being injected with drugs. So why not call this murder what it was? Why the ambiguity? This is not a debate about the morality of Eutanasia when it is legal and done with informed consent. In this case, there was no informed consent and no legality: on the contrary, the law classifies this as an act of treason. So, why not call a murder a murder?--189.4.208.67 (talk) 00:44, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
All information on wikipedia must be from a reliable source rather than the original opinion of its contributors. DrKiernan (talk) 08:16, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
But this is not original research. There are reliable sources that corroborate that the King was murdered by Lord Dawson. And there are reliable sources that corroborate that such an act amounted then, and amounts now, to high treason under the law of the UK.--201.33.30.202 (talk) 19:30, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
The information in the article should accurately reflect the sources cited in the article. Those sources do not use the word murder and make no mention of high treason. It is original research by synthesis to do so. See WP:SYNTHESIS. DrKiernan (talk) 08:04, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
It would only be murder if (a) he was charged with murder and (b) was convicted of that charge. It's too late now, because he's dead. -- JackofOz (talk) 08:13, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

GRI[edit]

Can someone please introduce "Georgius Rex Imperator" somewhere in the article and redirect here? I stumbled upon it whle collecting the "GRI". `'mikkanarxi 00:15, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Date of coronation durbar?[edit]

Wasn't the date of the coronation durbar in Delhi Dec 12, 1911? Is the article only implying that they travelled to India on Dec 11, 1911? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.130.136.219 (talk) 12:46, 13 December 2006 (UTC).

Passed GA standard[edit]

I've just reveiwed and passed this article for GA standard. It's informative and accurate, well referenced and quite well illustrated.--Cailil 19:45, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

It is, however, awfully one sided. His famous dislike of all his son's (excepting the later George VI who was thought to be too ill to take centre stage) and particularly the eldest, his famous remark that he felt that "the throne would be safe in the hands of his beloved Lillibet" which turned out to be true beyond his wildest dreams, his tendency to assume that World affairs had a place for the enthusiastic amateur which, on occasions caused him to do much more harm than good, the fact that his abandonment of his German styles and titles did seem to be rather late in the war (one could feel he waited to find out who was going to win) just as examples. Shakespeare said that "The good men do lives after them, the evil lays oft interred within their bones". In Wikipedia's case this is too true. Now we have all grown up and no longer think of the "divine right of Kings" AIUI George V was simply a fairly ordinary chap trying to do his best with the unusual hand life dealt him. He certainly doesn't need or warrant canonisation.

Drg40 (talk) 11:39, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

If you can produce proper citations to support what you say, then put it in! I assume your misquotation from Julius Caesar is ironic. Myrvin (talk) 12:17, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
You can't have read the article, as his dislike of Edward, favoritism of Albert and Elizabeth, abandonment of German titles, and his ordinariness is already covered extensively in the article. DrKiernan (talk) 15:19, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Lead-up to WWII[edit]

I have removed the phrase inserted at the end of the article "(And World War II started three years later)." I think the editor was right to point out that George's distrust of the Nazis should be mentioned in the article, probably in the reign section between the sentence on the christmas broadcast and the silver jubilee, and that it is an important part of his later reign which is currently not covered. However, the phrase looks a little out-of-place, as if stuck on as an afterthought, and deserves to be better integrated into the body of the text with an appropriate citation for his anti-Nazi attitudes. DrKiernan 13:05, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Apparently they were already talking about a possible WW2, and he more-or-less turned his face to the wall. Valetude (talk) 18:18, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Grandchildren[edit]

I would like to see this section removed. It duplicates material already given in other articles as well as further up the page in the {{House of Windsor}} template. The names of his other grandchildren could be added there. -- DrKiernan (talk) 18:20, 16 November 2007 (UTC) Is there any reason why some of his grandchildren are missing from the list in the House of Windsor template? Specifically, the children of the Princess Royal? --Hagi2000 (talk) 17:02, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

-Yes; they're not members of the House of Windsor; according to the 1917 Order In Council creating the House.92.3.130.26 (talk) 23:37, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Article under attack from HarveyCarter IPs SP[edit]

Revert all sock puppet additions in this 92.8 to 92.12 IP range.

~ WikiDon (talk) 08:11, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

The bronchitis edit looks genuine, but I take it that it is not. What's the story? -Rrius (talk) 21:31, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what the evidence is that these IPs are being used by User:HarveyCarter, but if they are then all edits may be reverted on sight, without explanation, under Wikipedia:Banning policy.
Typically, this is because although the edits may look genuine on the surface, they may not be.
Anyway, regardless of the above, if the information was correct we have actually mentioned George's increasing ill-health and the diseases he suffered from already, so we don't really need to repeat them. DrKiernan (talk) 07:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
It's definite. Compare contributions from these known sock-puppets:[1] [2][3] with the contributions of the IPs: [4][5]. DrKiernan (talk) 11:19, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Vinyl[edit]

I have found an old vinyl of "King George"'s (I believe V) speech from 1928. It is in excellent condition and holds the official royal seals! Would this item be of interest to the wikipedia archives? I can't find it in the National Archives, AMICUS? Any hints? Could someone help me in trying to find a reference to this? Also, if there is there an interest to have one of the first audio recording of King George in this article? If so, I'm willing to go pick up this item, but I would like to receive some compensation for the purchase. Do you think Wikipedia could cover some of the expenses of the direct cost of this item? --99.240.196.9 (talk) 17:55, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

I found the recording you are most likely talking about. It's at the National Archives of Canada, but is not and is available to the general public. It shouldn't cost anything to consult. When consulting the audio, the archives should have the appropriate machinery to listen to it. You may copy the audio. Since it's copyright licence has expired you could then release your work under GFDL. Please see this link for more details. --CyclePat (talk) 18:30, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Correction. I just checked with archives Canada. I was right the first time. The audio document is not available to the general public. Your copy may be the only one available. --CyclePat (talk) 19:26, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Issue[edit]

Can we not do the issues section like this?

Name Birth Death Notes
Edward, Prince of Wales
Later Edward VIII
23 June 1894 28 May 1972 later the Duke of Windsor; married Wallis Simpson; no issue
Prince Albert, Duke of York
Later George VI
14 December 1895 6 February 1952 married Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon; had issue (including Elizabeth II)
Mary, Princess Royal
Later Princess Royal and Countess of Harewood
25 April 1897 28 March 1965 married Henry Lascelles, 6th Earl of Harewood; and had issue
Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester 31 March 1900 10 June 1974 married Lady Alice Montagu-Douglas-Scott; had issue
Prince George, Duke of Kent 20 December 1902 25 August 1942 married Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark; had issue
Prince John 12 July 1905 18 January 1919 Died from seizures
Name Birth Marriage Issue Death
Edward, Prince of Wales
[1]
[2]
23 June 1894 3 June 1937 Wallis Simpson 28 May 1972
Prince Albert, Duke of York
[3]
14 December 1895 26 April 1923 Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon Princess Elizabeth
Princess Margaret
6 February 1952
Princess Mary
[4]
[5]
[6]
25 April 1897 28 Febuary 1922 Henry, Viscount Lascelles George Lascelles
Gerald Lascelles
28 March 1965
Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester 31 March 1900 6 November 1935 Lady Alice Montagu-Douglas-Scott Prince William
Prince Richard
10 June 1974
Prince George, Duke of Kent 20 December 1902 29 November 1934 Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark Prince Edward
Princess Alexandra
Prince Michael
25 August 1942
Prince John 12 July 1905 18 January 1919


I would prefer to reduce the amount of information given in these tables, rather than increase it further. The tables dilute the biography by turning the article into nothing but a repository of genealogical information of very little importance to George's actual life. Most of the people mentioned in it are not relevant to an understanding of George's place in history. It also duplicates material given elsewhere, in the individuals' own articles. DrKiernan (talk) 18:32, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Imperial Crown with "Maltese" Crosses: What Crown is this?[edit]

This article says that in a procession a "Maltese" Cross fell off of the "Imperial Crown". Other articles on the Internet state that the crown which lost some pieces (the uppermost crown and the orb under it) was the crown on top of the coffin. Being on top of the coffin then it would most likely be the Imperial State Crown, which has been the crown on top of a Monarch's coffin on other occasions. Another less likely possibility is the Imperial Crown of India. But according to photos neither of these two crowns has any Maltese Crosses. Can someone clarify this?64.131.188.183 (talk) 13:23, 11 December 2008 (UTC)Christopher Lawrence Simpson

I think from the description "composed of a sapphire and 200 diamonds" in the footnote, that we can assume it was the cross-pattée on the Imperial State Crown (picture here). I don't know why it says Maltese. That could be a mistake, perhaps made by the Duke of Windsor's ghost writer. DrKiernan (talk) 14:07, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
I would like to thank DrKiernan for agreeing with me. 64.131.188.183 (talk) 03:30, 12 December 2008 (UTC)Christopher L. Simpson
Actually, this is interesting: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic-art/144438/97008/The-British-Imperial-State-Crown
It shows an older picture with a different cross on it. DrKiernan (talk) 14:13, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
But the crown in the photo cited above is not the Imperial State Crown. Not only does it bear no general resemblance to the Imperial State Crown, and bear every resemblance to the Coronation ("St. Edward's") Crown, but the Black Prince's Spinel (a.k.a. "Black Prince's Ruby") is not boldly front-and-center as it has always been (through various re-makings and refittings) in the Imperial State Crown. I do not know what might move brittanica.com to errantly caption the crown. There is another picture of this crown that shows up in google as the Imperial State Crown, but if you actually inspect the page
http://www.etoile.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5136
you will find that each photo belongs to the caption above it while Google's web-crawler or search-engine thinks the photos belong to the captions beneath them, and so incorrectly represents that the caption belonging to the Imperial State Crown belongs to the Coronation Crown pictured above it. Once that apparent error on the www.etoile site is explained as Google's mistranscription, britannica.com seems to be totally alone in its puzzling conviction that a crown which everyone else says is the Coronation Crown is the Imperial State Crown. 64.131.188.183 (talk) 03:30, 12 December 2008 (UTC)Christopher Lawrence Simpson
Ah yes, you're right of course. Now that you've pointed it out, the Britannica picture is obviously St Edward's Crown! I've a made a change to the text, removing "Maltese cross" and adding "State" [6]. DrKiernan (talk) 08:45, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

New files[edit]

Recently the files below were uploaded and they appear to be relevant to this article and not currently used by it. If you're interested and think they would be a useful addition, please feel free to include any of them.

Dcoetzee 10:59, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Royal styles[edit]

I really think that advice on how to address orally a King, (and in particular a dead King) are not appropriate material for a serious encyclopedia.Johncmullen1960 (talk) 06:33, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Also, why include the versions of his name in German and Danish? I know his mother was Danish and he had German relations, but does that justify it? He also had Russian and other relations. It might make more sense to include his name in languages spoken by significant numbers of his subjects e.g. Welsh or Hindi. PatGallacher (talk) 00:51, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Last words[edit]

There were reports (eg The Times) at the time that his last words were "How is the empire?". Even if this pious thought is false, it was thought to be true at the time. (Its inclusion would also have helped me with today's Guardian crossword) Myrvin (talk) 11:00, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

This is from Baldwin's speech on 21 January. He did not actually say that they were his last words. He said that the King was lapsing in and out of consciousness and during one of these periods (not the last one) he asked "How is the Empire?". DrKiernan (talk) 11:18, 6 May 2010 (UTC)


I bow to your greater knowledge, but various sites say that it was The Times that reported it - rather than reporting it as in Baldwin's speech. The Oxford quotations says it's from a letter by Lord Wigram and quoted in Our Times, but "on the morning of his death".

The last time I talked to the King [George V] on the morning of his death, Monday 20th, he had The Times on his

table in front of him opened at the “Imperial and Foreign” page and I think his remark to me, “How’s the Empire?” was prompted by some para. he had read on this page

Letter from Lord Wigram, 31 Jan. 1936, in J. E. Wrench Geoffrey Dawson and Our Times (1955) ch. 28

The Penguin quotations gives them as his last words. as does the Routledge. Myrvin (talk) 13:14, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Wigram's letter agrees with Baldwin's speech in that they both fit a scenario where "How [i]s the Empire" were the last words said to his secretary on the morning of his death. However, Wigram wasn't present at his final conscious moment, which was later that evening, whereas Dawson was. So, there is no discrepancy between Dawson's account of George's very final words in the evening and Wigram's account of George's final remark to him in the morning. Penguin and Routledge are evidently not aware of, or have chosen to ignore, Dawson's first-hand account of the King's very final moments. Oxford Quotations (2004) also give Wigram's letter as a source for "How's the Empire?", but is careful to say it was on the morning of his death, and does not say they were his actual final words. DrKiernan (talk) 13:49, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
So was Baldwin quoting the Times or someone else? Wigram says it was said to him.
I found the BAldwin quote difficult to read with quotes within quotes - so I've put it in blockquote. I hope I did it properly.Myrvin (talk) 14:12, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Ah, I've just seen how you might be confused. There are two Dawsons: Lord Dawson of Penn, who was at the death and was the King's doctor, and Geoffrey Dawson, who was the editor of the Times.
The King said "How's the Empire" to Wigram, who told Baldwin in person, and Geoffrey Dawson by letter. Baldwin used the quote in his speech, which was reported in The Times. Wigram's letter to Geoffrey Dawson only became public knowledge in the 1950s.
The King said "God damn you" to the nurse, and Lord Dawson of Penn recorded it in his diary. The historian/biographer Francis Watson discovered Lord Dawson's diary in the 1950s, when he was writing a biography of Lord Dawson, but only revealed what was in it in 1986. DrKiernan (talk) 14:56, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Aha! Myrvin (talk) 18:09, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Clever vandalism[edit]

Be on the lookout for clever vandalism, such as this. A bad piped link, combined with a constructive edit. Jujutacular T · C 17:59, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Is this an inconsistent sentence?[edit]

Not wanting just to change an article that is a featured article - let me point this out first. George was the second son. OK. But there is the sentence "Six weeks after the engagement was formalised, Albert Victor died of pneumonia, leaving George second in line to the throne." Should this rather be "first in line to the throne"? DonToto (talk) 19:20, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

No, His father was still Prince of Wales and his Grandmother still Queen.(94.0.120.36 (talk) 20:15, 8 May 2010 (UTC))

Thanks, I missed that. I re-read the sentences around that again, and noted that the line of succession was mentionned 4 times in about as many sentences. "Second in line to the throne", "likely to succeed after his father", "eventual heir", and "he was now directly in line of succession". So I felt it was OK to replace "eventual heir" with "her grandson", which reinforces the idea of "second in line to the throne" which I missed, and maybe others will. A long explanation for a small change. It's a great article, so I tread very lightly when making this change. I trust it's an improvement but it can always be reverted, of course. DonToto (talk) 02:43, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Inappropriate tone[edit]

The final paragraph of the lead and the material on the New Zealand visit is beset by peacock terms and patronizing language more suited to the 1930s and 1940s than the twenty-first century.

The claims that a speech delivered by the King determined the direction of Britain's Irish policy and that the result of a single election determined the political changes of the 1930s are overplayed. The history of Ireland and world politics of the 1930s are more complex than these simplistic statements imply. DrKiernan (talk) 11:54, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:George VI of the United Kingdom which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 12:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Epsom Derby on 4 June 1913[edit]

There is absolutely no coverage of the Epsom Derby on 4 June 1913. And the collision with Emily Davison. I will nominate for FAR if no attempt is made to remedy this.--Iankap99 (talk) 22:43, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

She was of no consequence at all though. (92.12.43.182 (talk) 15:21, 29 November 2010 (UTC))

Rumours of alcoholism[edit]

I read in the official biography that George V was widely rumoured to be both a bigamist and an alcoholic in his early reign, and that children in London would often be instructed to pray for his poor wife and children. (92.12.126.195 (talk) 21:34, 25 January 2011 (UTC))

French colonial empire[edit]

I am surprised that my edit was reverted, since during WW1, the French colonial empire was almost at its peak and certainly did not fall following this war.--Alexandru Demian (talk) 13:10, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Feel free to restore your edit! Not all reverts are justified; some may just be based on the biased opinion of a single editor. --Krawunsel (talk) 15:22, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Another image for consideration[edit]

The following was just uploaded to commons, and may be of use in this article:

King George V and Queen Mary During World War I.jpg


The description is rather long, so I'd encourage you to just click on the image and read it if you're interested. Sven Manguard Wha? 07:48, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Order-in-council[edit]

In this section the article now states that "George appeased British nationalist feelings by issuing an Order-in-Council" to change the name of the royal family to Windsor, in July 1917. In this sentence, the word 'George' should be changed to 'the government.' Though Orders in council nominally come from the monarch, they are an action of the government. Privy Council of the United Kingdom#Functions makes this clear: "Orders-in-Council, which are drafted by the government rather than by the Sovereign, are secondary legislation and are used to make government regulations and to make government appointments." EdJohnston (talk) 07:59, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, sorry. I noticed that mistake in August last year, but forgot to change it. Now corrected to "royal proclamation". DrKiernan (talk) 10:47, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:George VI of the United Kingdom which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. (Message added manually; RM bot seems not to be working.)--Kotniski (talk) 06:10, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Not euthanasia[edit]

If is death wasn't for his own wish, I don't think it can be considered as euthanasia. I highly doubt the king George V, who was a Christian, would have wanted to die that way, if he had a saying in the matter.Mistico (talk) 22:01, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Picture[edit]

I have a photograph of a sign which was fixed to the railings of Buckingham Palace on 1 December 1928, detailing the condition of the King during his illness of that year. However I'm confused as to a) whether it would be suitable (in the opinion of the community) to be used on the wikipedia page for King George V, and b) how to upload and share it on this talk page for general review. If somebody could somehow let me know, I would be most grateful! Cglew (talk) 16:46, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Morganatic marriage[edit]

I have found a news report about his morganatic marriage and two children from this marriage. Should it be added? See link, Egeymi (talk) 20:57, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

His successful suit for libel is already in the article. This is one of the problems with your style of working: you shouldn't be using these discredited primary sources. You should be using secondary sources which analyze and correct the false newspaper reports. DrKiernan (talk) 21:03, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for your judgement. However, as you can see I did not use the report, just ask. I wish you might have just said, "no, it is not a reliable source" or something like that rather than providing me your subjective thoughts regarding my choice of sources. Egeymi (talk) 22:05, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
Sorry that you took offence here, Egeymi, but DrKiernan's response seems OK to me. As I said once befoee, before bing fobbed off with a load of grandiloquency, this kind of gossipy stuff does not belong in a NPOV article. Arno (talk) 12:44, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

1928 H.M. King George V R.I. opens the Tyne Bridge[edit]

Excellent series of pictures avaialable at -
http://www.retronaut.com/2010/09/construction-of-the-tyne-bridge-c-1927-1928/

203.129.63.66 (talk) 10:47, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Contradiction in article needs resolving[edit]

At the beginning of the article (and in the 'box'), it says:

George V (George Frederick Ernest Albert; 3 June 1865 – 20 January 1936) was King of the United Kingdom and the British Dominions, and Emperor of India, from 6 May 1910 until his death.

Later in the article under 'titles' it says this:

His full style as king was
"His Majesty George V, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and of the British Dominions beyond the Seas, King, Defender of the Faith, Emperor of India"

Then it says this:

...until the Royal and Parliamentary Titles Act 1927, when it changed to
"His Majesty George V, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the Seas, King, Defender of the Faith, Emperor of India".

Surely the opening line (and box) should either include the change, or it should not state anything until the titles section.AndthebeatGOES (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 14:29, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

  1. ^ Edward VIII 1936
  2. ^ Edward, Duke of Windsor 1936-1972
  3. ^ George VI 1936-1952
  4. ^ Viscountess Lascelles 1922-1929
  5. ^ Countess of Harewood 1929-1932
  6. ^ Princess Royal and Countess of Harewood 1932-1965