Talk:German-style board game

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Requestes move This article was nominated for renaming on 29th June 2006.
The result of the discussion was no consensus.

List[edit]

It seems to me that, without a definition of what a german-style game is to test against, the list of games section is original research, which is forbidden by WP:NOR. As a result, we should remove it. Percy Snoodle 10:43, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Rather than deleting this list, which in my mind is vital to help others fully understand what a german-style board game is, why not simply break it out into a page of it's own where all German-style games are listed be they old, new, in print, or out of print. I want to add the game War On Terror by TerrorBull games but at this stage have no criteria to go by to determine if it is deemed notable enough to include yet 81.144.157.50 12:23, 5 January 2007 (UTC) Trollgod 12:19, 05 January 2007 (GMT)
I have a very stupid question: according to the definition, Monopoly would qualify as a (precursor) of German Style board games (although, of course, it's American, but that's not the point). Have I misunderstood something? --Hartmut Haberland 08:10, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
I see your point about Monopoly, but we have to have some sensitivity to history: German-style games are not absolutely unique--Mancala would be an even better example--but they represent a design movement starting in the late 20th century. Also, Monopoly fails the criterion of having a definely time-end to the game, something German Style games have almost universally.
Monopoly would not qualify on several grounds. Monopoly has larger numbers than most Eurogames (German-style games) and it does not have a "count down" mechanism--Monopoly games take an indefinite and sometimes long time if players become closely matched. Monopoly has player elimination. The primary mechanism of Monopoly is roll-and-move, a very trite, old mechanic.

Removable of BGG[edit]

I'm curious why BoardGameGeek was removed from the see also (especially given that BrettSpielWelt was not). Rdore 04:00, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I added a link to BGG under the external links section. I can't imagine why it shouldn't be there. Bgplayer 23:42, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Probably because BGG had already been linked to in the article, but BSW hadn't. --McGeddon 23:52, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, here is the explanation given by the anonymous user: "removed inappropriate see also only included to spam the boards." Probably the same guy who wanted to delete BGG from Wikipedia a few weeks ago. --Jcbutler 02:12, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Currently BGG is in the "See also" section, but it has been removed again from the "External links" section. We really need to discuss this and come up with a consensus, rather than continually adding and removing it. --Jcbutler 18:09, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

My feeling is that since it has an external link on its own page, it shouldn't appear in the external links on this page. However, if there's a page on the BGG wiki specifically about designer games, rather than the wole of BGG's rather broad remit, then that page would be a suitable target for an external link. Percy Snoodle 19:05, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if it was in the "See also" section before or not but I'm fine with it being there and not in "External links". It probably makes more sense even since it has its own page. Bgplayer 22:08, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

The playing with BGG links may relate to politics on BGG, a small but vehement (and not particularly polite or scrupulous) faction believing that BGG is far too Eurogame-oriented. In my opinion, this is the result of the greater number of Eurogames being published compared to non-German-style US games (wargames excluded on either side). This brouhaha seems to be dying out. It seems most useful to directly reference BGG; requiring access to the the Wikipedia article on BGG to then get to the reference to BGG is annoying to a user who would just like to get to BGG.

No, it's not got anything to do with bgg politics. Percy Snoodle 19:42, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Italics[edit]

This article seems very inconsistent about whether and when the name of a game gets italicised. Are there rules about this that I'm not aware of?

According to Wikipedia:Manual of Style (text formatting), italics are used for the titles of books, films, video games, computer games, musical albums, and works of art. Board games are not specifically mentioned, but I would argue that we should use the same rule that applies to computer and video games, and italicize all of them for the sake of consistency. The exception might be noncommercial games like chess and go, which are generally not italicized, or capitalized for that matter. --Jcbutler 17:37, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Influence on MTG is inaccurate[edit]

I believe this article is inaccurate in describing Eurogaming as an influence on Garfield's Magic TCG. The only time Garfield has mentioned a board game influencing his card game is in the instance of Cosmic Encounter, which could hardly be considered a German-style game.ELPsteel 07:45, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I say go ahead and delete it. That's been in the article for ever, never sourced, I'm not sure where it came from. Rdore 19:37, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

To note here, as I have in asnwer to Rdore's question on my talk page, two paragraphs were removed - one about M:TG, which was false, as ELPSteel notes; and one about games like Bohnanza, which was true. I assumed the second paragraph had been removed in error and have returned it. Percy Snoodle 18:32, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Change of name?[edit]

I'm interested in getting some opinion. On BGG, "Euro" is the much more common term over "German" these days. Doing some quick google searches suggests that that's true across the board. Searching for German-style board game gets 61,600 hits[1], for Euro-style board game gets 77,200 hits[2], and European-style board game gets 208,000[3]. Given that, I'm proposing moving this to European-style board game and then redirecting this to there, and also redirecting Euro-style board game to there. I know I could be bold but I'd like to see what others think first. — Timotab Timothy (not Tim dagnabbit!) 23:51, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

This has been extensively discussed earlier. AldaronT/C 03:32, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Two years ago, the consensus seemed to be that German was the more common term. A little over one year ago, Euro started to gain prominence. Today, Euro(pean) has the clear win. Shouldn't we reflect current terminology? — Timotab Timothy (not Tim dagnabbit!) 03:47, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Again, I'd like to recommend that you use the requested moves process if you do decide to move the page. I'd also advise dropping the "-style" if you want to reflect current use; your google searches don't really apply because hardly anyone ever says "style". without "style", the searches give 15,000,000 for "German"[4] and only 2,800,000 for "Euro"[5], but the clear winner is "Designer" with 94,200,000[6]. However, your searches didn't use quotes, which give us 13,600[7] / 2,520[8] / 1,970[9] - so with quotes, "German" still takes it. Dropping "board", since the article deals with all the designer game types, gives us 120,000[10] / 391,000[11] / 21,500[12] - showing you can make google support whichever one you want just by varying the search. What would be useful would be a breakdown of use of each term on BGG by year. Percy Snoodle 07:02, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

So - are we going to have another RM? It's been more than a year since the last one, and I'm not keen to be the one to start this off as I started the last one and it got messy; but at least we can get rid of "board". Percy Snoodle 14:03, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

The source mentioned (Bob Schwartz) claims that German Style doesn't work from a retailers perspective, because of negative connotations. The source goes even that far and claims that they look for a new name, not that a new name is already in use. It's like posting somewhere "I want to call those games XYZ Games now" and then claim that as a source. And that got such a prominent place in the article? All designers names in that list are german and "german" very much dominates that article. I cannot see that issue as some naive attempt to find a better name. In fact, the source claims economical reasons and in that case just have to do with peoples bias. So we have Disneys Tales instead of Grimms Fairytales and norse / scandinavian religion as source in Fantasy instead of germanic religion and the german influence on Comics is probably also unwanted as it doesn't help to keep the germans as humourless Nazis they have become since the world wars. Now, I'll eat some American Pizza and go buy a truly american Levi Jeans. — best wishes from germany —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.58.136.255 (talk) 08:46, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

'Euro' is by far the more common way they are referred to in the community nowadays. I was pretty surprised to see people still clinging to 'German' since it is pretty uncommon to hear them referred to that way these days and sounds so out of touch. 156.142.34.20 (talk) 13:44, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

As noted above, this has been extensively discussed earlier. That discussion should be reviewed before reopening this issue. The basic outcome was that (a) the (then) proposed term "Designer game" would be a bad choice (it's just a marketing term that no one actually uses), but that (b) people were divided as to whether "German" and "Euro" was more appropriate, with inertia favoring retaining "German". My view is that "Euro" is more accurate, and increasingly widely used, and I would support a change to either "Euro game" or "Eurogame". AldaronT/C 16:26, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
While they may have originated in Germany, games of this style are by no means limited to Germany nowadays. As such, Eurogames is vastly more accurate and preferable. Come to think of it, I can't imagine them being limited to Europe either, which is why I propose renaming to "World games" or, even better, "Games". While we're at it, let's also rename the article on the Austrian School of Economics to something more accurate as I know for a fact lots of Austrians don't even follow that school of thought and non-Austrian publications abound. I also heard German Shepherd Dogs have been spotted in China and German Township is mostly populated by Americans. It seems there's a lot to be done; let's get on it. 84.63.175.93 (talk) 15:40, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
It is not Wikipedia's place to try to evangelize a new name, so World games is right out. (Designer games is used a bit, but doesn't seem to have much traction.) It may be time for a rename to eurogame:
"German game" -sport About 122,000 results (0.36 seconds)
"eurogame" -sport About 242,000 results (0.29 seconds)
"German-style game" -sport About 47,800 results (0.42 seconds)
The -sport is to avoid conflating with the Eurogames sporting event mentioned below. While this may kill references to sport themed eurogames (I can only think of Winner's Circle), it should affect the three candidates equally (in percentage terms). Laguna CA (talk) 23:20, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Just stumbled over this topic and read through google hits, including this Wiki page. They generally mention 'German'; claiming that games from this area are particularily influental, that the game shows in Essen and Nuremburg are the most important and that the games awards "Spiel des Jahres" and "Deutscher Spieler Preis" are kind of "Oscar" of this industry. Sometimes Rio Grande Games is mentioned, which provides such games for the international market. Rio Grande Games themselves note on their website, that most of their games are german games. The term Eurogames several times links to a "the biggest athletic event for lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgender people in Europe" ... --194.120.140.122 (talk) 12:50, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Apologies[edit]

I just made a couple changes to the redirect link ... which was in fact totally correct to begin with. I hope I've put it all back to normal again. I'm clearly too sleep deprived to be editing Wikipedia right now. Sorry for the momentary mishap. 132.162.208.51 (talk) 22:18, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

30 minutes[edit]

I seem to "avoid" those short games somehow. Could someone point me to a few examples that typically are finished in 30 minutes? --Echosmoke (talk) 02:26, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Dominion, Coloretto, For Sale, TransAmerica/TransEuropa/Vexation... Those are just a few that come immediately to mind. BoardGameGeek would be a better place to ask this question. Laguna CA (talk) 08:09, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Meoplesmagazine[edit]

http://www.meoplesmagazine.com/ its probably a good source for german board game reviews - its in english but the guys are germans. not the largest database yet, but an active site about very new and sometimes very old and almost forgotten gems. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.90.253.189 (talk) 21:50, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

usually multi-player?[edit]

Quoting article: "As far as generalities can be made about such a large and diverse group of games, German-style games are usually multiplayer and ....."

"Usually multi-player" suggests to me that some are single-player games, i.e., solitaire games. Are some of them designed as single-player games or is it merely that they can be adapted to be played by one person?. Thanks. Wanderer57 (talk) 14:21, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

It's an ambiguous term. In the world of video games, multiplayer means 2 or more players. In the world of board games, however, multiplayer means 3 or more.  Randall Bart   Talk  20:09, 4 November 2012 (UTC)


Requested move 23 December 2013[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. --BDD (talk) 23:55, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

German-style board gameEurogame – I've been researching some topics surrounding this subject, and I've noticed that the term most frequently used to refer to this class of game in reliable sources appears to be Eurogame. Accordingly, I propose moving this article per WP:COMMONNAME. --Relisted.  — Amakuru (talk) 23:35, 2 January 2014 (UTC) Muchness (talk) 04:06, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Survey[edit]

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
  • Strong oppose "Eurogame" should redirect to the disambiguation page Eurogames or directly to EuroGames -- 65.94.78.9 (talk) 05:19, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
  • Weak support. Labelling this type of board games as "German-style" contrasts with the article's claim that not all German-style board games are German. Singling out Germany from the whole Europe looks rather silly too. Also, the German version of this article is called de:Autorenspiel ("authored board game"), not "Brettspiel in dem Deutschen Stil". JIP | Talk 19:17, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose; I don't see anything showing that these are not commonly referred to as German-style, which is how I personally have always heard them referred to as. And obviously "German-style" doesn't mean it's from there, it just means it's in the style of that place. So, indeed, play some Settlers and enjoy your Merry Christmas. smile Red Slash 23:51, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

Any additional comments:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Sid Sackson as example of a German-style designer?[edit]

Personally I am not entirely convinced that Sid Sackson is a good example of German-style boardgames designer. Games like Can't stop or Bazaar, don't have the same intense themes like other eurogames. At the same time, I have to admit that probably he was one of the first American designers to design more German-style games :-) Because it is confusing to put him in what should be a clear list of examples, I would propose to delete him from the list. What do you think about this? Facharbeit (talk) 12:12, 8 January 2014 (UTC)