Talk:German submarine U-864

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Decision?[edit]

Q: The last entry for this page was around January 2007.

  One of the people mentioned in the references was able 
  to inform me that no decisions/actions had yet been taken 
  regarding the wreck.
  Has anyone any objections to me adding the final note,
     "As of June 2008, no decisions or actions have 
      yet been taken on covering or raising the wreck."
  to the main text?

Knowledge pusher (talk) 13:09, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

"Weapons grade"[edit]

What did the Japanese need Mercury for exactly?--Moonlight Mile 22:48, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

What is "weapons-grade mercury"? I suspect that it should simply be called "mercury".

A quick google search doesn't mention it, but does mention mercury's use in uranium enrichment and fuses Alastairward 21:13, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the phrase. Describing the mercury as "weapons-grade" implies that there was something special about it that differentiated it from "non-military" mercury. It was used in dozens of applications including mercury arc rectifiers, pharmaceuticals and anti-fouling paint for ships' bottoms (which relied upon mercury oxide at that time) as well as mercury fulminate for detonators. All of these things are needed in wartime as well as peacetime. "Weapons-grade mercury" is as meaningful as "weapons-grade rubber" or "weapons-grade sulphur". Jll 16:24, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

War Grave Situation[edit]

This site has some info and I have read info elsewhere also http://www.karl-doenitz.com/

That Norway is not treating this site as a WAR GRAVE. There are 73 dead people on the ship and it should be handled with respect. Anyone else have any more details on this? should this be added to the article perhaps? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Weedgod (talkcontribs) 01:25, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Context of Central Paragraph of 3[edit]

The central para of the below 3 needs context:

There was some speculation as to whether U-864 was carrying uranium oxide, as was U-234, which was captured by the US Navy in the Atlantic on 15 May 1945, but Det Norske Veritas (DNV) concluded that there was no evidence that uranium oxide was on board U-864 when she departed Bergen. During the Norwegian Costal Administration's investigation of the wreck of U-864 in 2005, radiation measurements were made but no traces of uranium oxide were found.[4]

ULTRA decrypts of signals from the Japanese embassy at Berlin indicate that once it was realised I-52 was missing, likely lost in the Atlantic, I-52's return cargo of uranium-oxide should be loaded on the next available U-boat to the Orient. Since the uranium-oxide for I-52 had not left Kiel on account of the Normandy landings, this U-boat was likely U-871.

According to the cargo list, U-864 also had equipment and drawings for the Messerschmitt Me 262 jet fighter as well as jet engine parts, and German and Japanese scientists and engineers on board when she left Bergen.[5] Her mission to deliver advanced technology to Japan was known as operation Caeser. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.14.240.177 (talk) 21:07, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Do you have a referenced source for this ? Racklever (talk) 09:31, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Looking in the page history, the reference for that old deleted paragraph was this article from Der Spiegel which just says "The U-boat was heading for Japan and carried plans for the new Messerschmitt Me 262 jet fighters, along with engine parts from the Junkers and BMW factories", so I guess that could be reinserted in the article. As for "Operation Caesar", I have never seen it mentioned outside the various newspaper stories about U-864, which strongly suggests it is a recent invention. Salmanazar (talk) 12:53, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
There's a BBC Timewatch programme on the subject of the hunt for and sinking of U-864 on YouTube here: [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.40.252.73 (talk) 19:22, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Torpedo Time[edit]

Article says 4 minutes, yet TV show "U-864: Hitler's Last Secret" says 2 minutes. ?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.148.255.247 (talk) 16:55, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Contamination[edit]

Mercury is a liquid, 13 times heavier then water. If in open water, it would think to the ground at once. only joining with other drops of the same kind. How could it infect fishes or nature? --Gonzosft (talk) 19:54, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Some fish and crustaceans are bottom feeders so the mercury could get into the food chain. Racklever (talk) 21:03, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Was the U 864 aware she was being hunted?[edit]

I have written at length in the "Action of 9 February" section from U 864 about various technical aspects of this hunt. One that concerns me here is whether Wolfram actually knew he was under attack at all. Looking at the British evidence, I surmise that Wolfram was running snorkel up - hence the diesel noises that Venturer heard - and wonder whether what the British RN officer thought was a periscope was in fact the snorkel head. The u-boat could have already been zigzagging when contact was made - it would take a while using hydrophones to establish this. The main thing for me is that if Wolfram thought he had company, the easiest way to disappear would be to turn to the e-motors, lower the snorkel and slowly dive and turn then disappear into the dark. My feelings are that this narrative here is incorrect.

Any opinions?

Mungo Shuntbox (talk) 12:58, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mungo Shuntbox (talkcontribs) 12:53, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

If snorkelling at periscope depth there would be no need to zig-zag unless the captain was aware he was being tracked by another submarine, and with his diesels running he would not have been able to hear anything, so I presume he spotted Venturers periscope. The likelihood of a successful submerged attack from the other submarine was so remote that I expect the U-boat captain thought he was reasonably safe, but started zig-zagging as a prudent precaution.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.7.147.13 (talk) 17:40, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Some grammar or translation errors that can't really be overlooked.[edit]

Looks like there's a few words missing in several places in the article. Looks like it should be an amount: "... The cargo included approximately of metallic mercury ..." "... Approximately of mercury was purchased ..." "... So far per year of mercury ... 58.168.52.243 (talk) 08:37, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

For some reason, your browser is not showing the conversion templates. They give the numbers first in one format then another, such as "The cargo included approximately 67 short tons (61 t) of metallic mercury in 1,857 32-kilogram (71 lb) steel flasks stored in her keel." The article is okay by Wikipedia standards but you computer is working strangely. Binksternet (talk) 11:25, 7 September 2012 (UTC)