Talk:Girl group

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Sexuality (Rated C-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sexuality, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of human sexuality on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject R&B and Soul Music (Rated C-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject R&B and Soul Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of R&B and Soul Music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Women's History (Rated C-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

"power manager"[edit]

In fact, the all-girl band with the power manager-producer goes back further (yes, I'm a personal friend of the author, but this is an unsolicited endorsement!): Sherrie Tucker, Swing Shift: "All-Girl" Bands of the 1940s (ISBN: 0822324857). --MichaelTinkler

Indeed, and no-one who's seen Some Like It Hot can forget "Sweet Sue and her Society Syncopaters".

I just don't think of groups like that in the heading of "Girl Bands". The musicians written about in "Swing Shift" were exactly that: musicians. I mean, all the members of Led Zeppelin were male, but it didn't make them a boy band :) I suppose you could argue that people like The Andrews Sisters were the spiritual heirs of the Spice Girls, though.

Not all members of girl bands are talentless bimbos - some of them *can* actually sing and dance rather well and would probably feel quite comfortable in , say, a Broadway production or make a career singing backing for other acts. However, the girl bands from the 1940's were from an era when professional songwriters, arrangers, band leaders, and record producers applied the same production-line approach to virtually all popular music. The distinction only really arose with the arrival of rock and roll and the tradition of the singer-songwriters, IMHO. However, if you do have information about the 40's girl groups, I can't see any reason not to add it here. --Robert Merkel
Oh, absolutely. And I wasn't trying to suggest you shouldn't; I was just explaining why I hadn't. -- GWOYO IM COOL SO GET IT GOT IT GO...YO YO YO YO YO YO!!!!! I LIKE TO BE IN MY OWN NOT IN UR WAY CUZ IM SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DAM COOL

Most of the 60s groups were highly talented. Most of the lead singers had pipes on them reminiscent of Bessie Smith, and they knew how to use them. On another note, I don't think the wall of sound typifies girl groups, so I'm going to try to modify that section. Trontonian


Does this title mean to include 'all women groups'? Then we would also be including The Slits, The Runaways, The Shaggs, Feminist Improvising Group, Fanny and others.... quercus robur 00:40 Feb 5, 2003 (UTC)


Why is this here instead of girl group, which is far more common, I think. It wins on google by about 20,000 hits. Tokerboy

Why is this article listed under soul music? There are lots of girl groups that are not soul music performers. RickK | Talk 06:11, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Because there are two different meanings to the term girl group. It can mean any all-female pop band, but is also used very specifically to refer to a kind of early 60s girl groups (e.g. The Angels, The Shangri-las). These girl groups were soul.
On a google search using quotes around "girl group", the top ten results include
  • Two totally unrelated
  • 5 appear to be specifically about early 60s groups
  • One more generally applying to any female pop band (usually rock, I think)
  • One is about both (this very Wikipedia article)
  • One is a list of cds, some of which are totally unrelated male singers, others fall in between the two uses

Tuf-Kat 06:39, Apr 2, 2004 (UTC)

Terminology (Girl group vs. Girl band)[edit]

What is the difference between a girl group and a girl band?? (This question was brought to my mind when I saw Zanimum's recent edit to Crystal (disambiguation). 66.32.247.47 23:36, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

See Template talk:Popmusic#Girl group. Brianjd 07:30, 2004 Dec 13 (UTC)

Name of that band in Kill Bill: Volume I?[edit]

Yeah, I know'rit's a japanese band consistin' only of chicks in Kill Bill 1, but, hey...What's their EXACT name? I'm unsure, so I betted a wild-card at 5-6-7-8's. Anyone more..."renemberable", than me? With better memory, i.e.?--OleMurder 23:48, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Things to Do[edit]

the article is kind of a mess. Things that would help:

A discussion of the relationship between girl groups and the Philly Soul sound of the 70s.

A streamlining of the discussion of 80s and 90s girl groups, and an effort to put it in some kind of context. Just listing groups that happened to be girl groups is not a helpful way to organize the article.

I'll try to get to these some day, but it'll take a while. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by NoahB (talkcontribs) 15:46, 30 December 2006 (UTC).

I agree about this article. It is a mess and has no citations for sources. What is the meaning of the Top Girl Groups section? It has random percentages of impact with no meaning behind the percentages or a source for these percentages. There are also weasel words in the final section that need to be corrected. TVguy85 09:52, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I wrote most of the final section; I reread it, and am not sure what weasel words you are talking about. Specifics would help. Could you provide some? Or better yet, make changes yourself?NoahB 02:13, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

All right, in the absence of any clear explanation of why the neutrality is disputed, I am going to remove the tag. Please don't put it back unless you are able to explain exactly what your objections are. (Personally, I think there are problems with the article, but I don't agree that neutrality is one of them; but I am of course open to discussion on the matter.) NoahB 15:04, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

The Term "Girl Groups"[edit]

The person(s) who wrote this article are obviously very young, and did not do their homework, either.

The term "girl groups" is used to describe the girl groups of the early to mid-1960s, such as The Shirelles, The Chiffons, Martha and The Vandellas, The Supremes, The Jaynetts, The Marvelettes, The Shangri-Las, The Orlons, The Angels, The Crystals, The Ronettes, The Murmaids, The Toys, The Dixie Cups and others. Some of these groups have been described in the article in brief, but they deserve MUCH more mention. Most of the article devotes itself to the 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s. This article is completely wrong, in other words, and is misleading to anyone who is reading it.

We are not talking about groups in the '40s, '50s, '70s, '80s, '90s, or after. The "Girl Group Era" is over, and it took place in the early to mid-1960s. Slater79 00:29, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

The girl group era was indeed in the 60s; however, the term is often used to refer to later groups who work in a similar vein -- TLC and Destiny's Child are both often referred to as girl groups, for example (and for obvious reasons.) If you'd like to add more info about earlier groups, that would be super, though. NoahB 13:39, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me, but I don't see much of a genre there if you group up Ronettes and Destiny's Child in there. It needs a rewrite. --186.85.72.77 (talk) 09:52, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Real Sales of Best-Selling Female Groups[edit]

TLC
Ooooooohhh.... On the TLC Tip: 6 million
CrazySexyCool: 15 million http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/06/07/01/10050737.html
FanMail: 10 million
3D: 2 million
Now and Forever, The Hits: 1 million
Singles: 11 million
Total: 45 Million

Destiny's Child
Destiny's Child: 2 million copies
The Writing's on the Wall: 13 million http://www.ticketnest.com/concert-tickets/Beyonce/index.php
Survivor: 10 million
8 Days of Christmas: 1 million
This Is The Remix: 500,000 copies
Destiny Fulfilled: 6 million
#1's: 3.5 million
Singles: 16 million
Total: 100 million???? impossible..

Spice Girls
Spice: 23 million http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6251176.stm
Spiceworld: 11 million
Forever: 3 million
Singles: 18.2 million
Greatest Hits (not included in the total): 1.7 million
Total: 55 million http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6246448.stm
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.72.236.62 (talk) 20:35, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Best-Selling Groups??[edit]

It doesn't seem right.

Destiny's Child:
Destiny's Child: 2 million copies worldwide
The Writing's on the Wall: 13 million worldwide
Survivor: 10 million copies worldwide
8 Days of Christmas: 500,000 copies
This Is The Remix: 500,000 copies
Destiny Fulfilled: 7 million copies worldwide
#1's: 3 million copies worldwide
36 million

Spice Girls:
Spice: 23 million worldwide
Spiceworld: 15 million worldwide
Forever: 1.4 million worldwide
39.4 million

How does DC3 have 100 million? That is a hoax!!! I think solo sales SHOULD NOT count (cough*Beyonce*cough).


Seriously Destiny's Child have NOT sold 100 million thats just crap. Spice Girls are the biggest selling female group. Not to mention the fact that they did it with less albums...

74.95.5.130 21:58, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

At the 2000 Brit awards, it stated that Spice Girls had sold 35.2 million albums. Therefore 39m is clearly inflated. As for the Destiny's Child 100 million, again, not possible. Music World Entertainment (their label) is reported to have sales of 100 million [1] which is inclusive of Destiny's Child. Their 2007 report also specified that Destiny's Child was their biggest group wth sales of 60 million. Hence the reference was changed to this. Overall, from the current verifiable references, Spice Girls are not the biggest selling girl group. So please stop fictionalising the sales figures and go as per references. Maggott2000 03:25, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

The Brits were in 2000. The information is not very up to date. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.233.72.140 (talk) 21:53, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

^^^ Destiny Child hasn't sold over 60 million records..Its funny, in 2005 when the group performs survivor (You can look at the videos on Youtube). You can see when beyonce says "sold over ten million." She says over 50 million and in 2004. Its over 40 million..Clearly, there sales dont add up to 60 million records because they only sold 20 million singles and 34 million albums —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.252.95.253 (talk) 04:23, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

DESTINY'S CHILD NO.1[edit]

FIRST of all Destiny's Child has sold over 100 million records and when you are talking about sale they are not only talking about album sales that also is single sales you can go to KellyRowlandonline.com and it will be in front of your face and that web site that was made by Columbia Records and think they would know how many they sold and on top of that the World yes the World Music Awards would've not gave them award for being the The BEST SELLING FEMALE GROUP OF ALL TIME and that award show is base on records sales and for the record The Spice Girls FIRST album did not sale 23 million because the biggest selling album by a female group is TLC's Crazy,Sexy,Cool that sold 15 million copies worldwide and next in line is Destiny's Child album The Writing's on the wall which sold over 11 million worldwide. Spice girls last album did not even sale thats why they broke up hello there time was done.....i understand that you'll like the spice girls,but Destiny's Child are No.1 i mean every time one of them come on and t.v show they say she is 1/3of the bestselling female group of all time no matter if its Kelly,Michelle,or Beyonc'e I mean it was on VH1 when they did the girl group thing when the Dreamgirls movie was coming out they said it then the biggest selling female group Destiny's Child, and one more thing Destiny's Child left on top something NO GROUP HAS DONE!!!!!!!

Edit: They say that Nana Moskouri has sold over 300 million! HOAX!! So don't listen to Colombia, Universal etc. They make hoax everytime, and TV show say the same stupid things. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 90.10.238.39 (talk) 14:15:27, August 19, 2007 (UTC)

Edit: The Spice Girls FIRST album if sold 23 million copies and is the best-selling albums in history by a female group http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6251176.stm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.72.236.62 (talk) 19:55, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Sales[edit]

First of all, when you talk about sales, you don't count singles, or you say "total" with "X" single sales. Somebody has erased the details so I'll give you a link to see that they didn't sold 100 million. 100 million = More than David Bowie, Prince, the Red Hot Chilli Peppers, Sting, Bob Marley, Genesis, Dyla, Mc Cartney etc come on! It's a hoax made by Columbia! Here you are, click on The spice girls and watch carefully, then on Destiny's child :

http://www.chartsinfrance.net/communaute/index.php?s=49309e465b998e634969362f20ceb1b6&showtopic=6523&st=0&start=0

Read and search for information before doing the fanboy/girl.

This can be done two ways, both being correct. The media reports the artist has sold xxx records, this is generally inclusive of albums and singles. Or they will report xxx albums, and xxx singles. So when talking sales, you 'can' be talking combined albums and singles Maggott2000 03:31, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

The Runaways[edit]

If the Bangles and the Go Go's are listed, why not The Runaways as well? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sheilamarie (talkcontribs) 23:36, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

I personally think The Bangles and The Go Go's should be removed from this list. Though you could argue that they had significant help from producers, I think they share more in common with the all-female rock bands that are specifically mentioned as not being Girl Groups. But I'm not a big Wikipedia contributer or anything so I'll just leave it to the people working on the page. -Kris Wright —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.128.136.46 (talk) 01:34, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Terminology[edit]

This article seems to be claiming that "girl bands" play instruments and "girl groups" don't, but a moment's research with Google will show you that the term "girl band" is extremely widely used for vocal groups (Spice Girls, Girls Aloud etc. etc.); c.f. Boy band. Where did this idea come from? 86.134.53.136 (talk) 02:51, 4 March 2008 (UTC).

External Links[edit]

An external link to Piece If Metal, that was added by USER:212.0.125.245 on October 2, 2008, was removed per Wikipedia guidelines that advise links to English language content are strongly preferred for use in the English-language Wikipedia, unless the external link is to an official site for either an entry on the list or for the article/itself. Soundvisions1 (talk) 15:16, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Supremes-a-go-go.jpg[edit]

The image Image:Supremes-a-go-go.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

  • That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
  • That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --02:02, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Sugababes vs Girls Aloud[edit]

The article contradicts itself,

"In the UK, Sugababes formed in 1998, and have been named the most successful all-female act of the 21st century in the UK. They have achieved 7 #1 singles and sales of more than 5 million albums in the UK alone."

"However, in the UK, Popstars: the Rivals, Girls Aloud was formed in late 2002 and is still recording and performing together as a group to this day to widespread acclaim and success they are the only girlband to have 20 consecutive top 10 hits including 4 number ones, they are the decade's most successful girl group in the UK, selling over 5 million in 6 years."

Is there a difference between the terms 'all-female act' and 'girl group' ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by I teh yuh (talkcontribs) 16:17, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


GIRLS ALOUD SALES

ALBUMS

Sound of The Underground  : 335,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=sotu (PLATINUM)

What Will The Neighbours Say? : 600,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=wwtns (2X PLATINUM)

Chemistry  : 375,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=chemistry (PLATINUM)

The Sound of Girls Aloud  : 950,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=soga (3X PLATINUM)

Tangled Up  : 420,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=tu (PLATINUM)

Out of Control  : 650,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=ooc (2X PLATINUM)

(Girls A Live)  : ~15,000 http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=ooc


ALBUM TOTALS: ~3,345,000+

SINGLES : http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles

Sound of The Underground : 600,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles/sotu (PLATINUM)

No Good Advice  : 123,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles/nga (N/A)

Life Got Cold  : 85,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles/lgc (N/A)


Jump  : 200,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles/jump (SILVER)

The Show  : 90,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles/show (N/A)

Love Machine  : 150,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles/lm (N/A)

I'll Stand By You  : 190,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles/isby (N/A)

Wake Me Up  : 66,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles/wmu (N/A)


Long Hot Summer  : 52,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles/lhs (N/A)

Biology  : 120,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles/bio (N/A)

See The Day  : 62,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles/std (N/A)

Whole Lotta History  : 44,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles/wlh (N/A)


Something Kinda Ooooh  : 185,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles/sko (N/A)

I Think We're Alone Now  : 74,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles/itwan(N/A)


Walk This Way  : 120,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles/wtw (N/A)


Sexy! No No No...  : 96,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles/snnn (N/A)

Call The Shots  : 240,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles/cts (SILVER)

Can't Speak French  : 145,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles/csf (N/A)


The Promise  : 400,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles/tp (GOLD)

The Loving Kind  : 80,000+ http://www.girlsaloud.org/music.php?go=singles/tlk (N/A)


SINGLE TOTALS: ~3,122,000+

GRAND TOTAL: ~6,467,000+

SUGABABES SALES

ALBUMS

One Touch  : 220,000+ (GOLD)

Angels With Dirty Faces  : 916,000+ (3X PLATINUM)

Three  : 855,000+ (3X PLATINUM)

Taller In More Ways  : 886,000+ (3X PLATINUM)

Overloaded  : 633,000+ (2X PLATINUM)

Change  : 510,000+ (PLATINUM)

Catfights and Spotlights : 150,000+ (GOLD)


ALBUM TOTALS: ~4,170,000+

SINGLES : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugababes_discography

Overload  : 150,000+ (N/A)

New Year  : 75,000+ (N/A)

Run for Cover  : 58,000+ (N/A)

Soul Sound  : 10,000+ (N/A)


Freak Like Me  : 265,000+ (SILVER)

Round Round  : 250,000+ (SILVER)

Stronger  : 115,000+ (N/A)

Shape  : 42,000+ (N/A)


Hole In The Head  : 150,000+ (N/A)

Too Lost In You  : 86,000+ (N/A)

In The Middle  : 44,000+ (N/A)

Caught In A Moment : 32,000+ (N/A)


Push the Button  : 415,000+ (GOLD)

Ugly  : 132,000+ (SILVER)

Red Dress  : 74,000+ (N/A)

Follow Me Home  : 14,000+ (N/A)


Easy  : 37,000+ (N/A)


Walk This Way  : 120,000+ (N/A)


About You Now  : 453,000+ (GOLD)

Change  : 86,000+ (N/A)

Denial  : 78,000+ (N/A)


Girls  : 155,000+ (SILVER)

No Can Do  : 40,000+ (N/A)


SINGLE TOTALS: ~2,881,000+

GRAND TOTAL: ~7,051,000+

The Sugababes have sold ~600,000 more records than Girls Aloud, meaning they are this decade's best selling British girl band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by I teh yuh (talkcontribs) 17:39, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


The Saturdays should get a little more mention in the part about Europe girl groups in the 2000's. They are currently the only british Girl Group out right now. It doesn't have to be big maybe one or two senteces since they are at the top of the article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.118.206.8 (talk) 17:10, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

mass removal of original research unsourced content[edit]

The article has been tagged for needing sources for content since 2007. I have gone through and removed the WP:OR / WP:V content. Active Banana (bananaphone 15:35, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

with over 15000 potential sources [2], it should be realitively easy to build an article that meets the content requirements. Active Banana (bananaphone 15:43, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Pussycat Dolls section amended[edit]

The 2000s section had a massive, 5-paragraph detailed description of the entire career, membership, singles and albums of the Pussycat Dolls. Basically, there was about five times more information on them than almost any other group, including the entire short little 1970's section! It had to be cut down, which I did.

On the other hand, the article completely ignored far more successful girl groups such as Wilson Philips, Destiny's Child and TLC!! Therefore, they were added into the 1980's-1990s section. --Mezaco (talk) 23:29, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Milestone groups not cited[edit]

Why no mention of the Go-Gos? Or for that matter the Lennon Sisters?99.2.69.235 (talk) 10:57, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

wtf[edit]

WHERE DID PUSSYCAT DOLLS GO?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by XHugoTheNerd (talkcontribs) 00:38, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

It went where it's supposed to go: gone. the pussycat Dolls were not some revolutionary group that changed the face of girl groups forever. At best they deserve an single line, and they certainly don't deserve a whole paragraph detailed every member change while pretending they were the best thing since sliced bread. DragonFury (talk) 22:43, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Page Expansion[edit]

Should the article be more in depth like the boyband one which features a 2010s section,key factors of the concept,music genres,controversy and 10 best selling girl groups table? This has really helped expand the boyband page and cover all aspects of the genre both pros/cons.

Is this for real?[edit]

At the History section it says, quote: "During the Music Hall/Vaudeville era, all-girl singing groups were mainly novelty acts singing nonsense songs in silly voices." - non-sense? silly voices!?. Masterpeace3 (talk) 00:24, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

The Term "Girl Groups", round two[edit]

Simply put: This needs a revamp and, most likely, some sort of split, and here is why.

Specialized music sites such as allmusic (1, 2, 3), Pitchfork (pardon me!), this site or (not useful for a source, but it does give you a general idea) Rate Your Music acknowledge the idea of "Girl Group" as a specific and separate genre with mainstream popularity peak around the apparent demise of rock and roll in the late 50s and before the so-called "British Invasion", and with influence and association not only to the format of "girl group" presented here but to an infinity of artists in rock music (whether it is The Beach Boys or Jesus and Mary Chain). It seems a little weird to think of these really closely associated (sonically) bands getting lumped in the same group as really disparate musicians (even between themselves) as TLC, Pussycat Dolls or Spice Girls. Sure, all of them are pop and sung by girls, but that's it. "Purist" sources such allmusic or RYM would have an issue grouping all of those acts together and having the apparently practical but actually misleading "infobox genre" next to it.

Ergo, I think we can make a distinction here of:

  • "Girl group", a pop music format of "several young female singers who generally harmonise together", present in most decades since the 50s, interchangeable with the term "(all-)female music group" .
  • "Girl group", a specific pop music genre that incorporated specific elements of doo-wop, rock and roll, and (early) r&b, popular during the late 50s to mid 60s and with influence to the songwriting and sound of a myriad of bands, as well as credited for starting and popularizing the above mentioned format.

Therefore, I've decided to propose we split the contents of this article. This page can remain as describing the developments (mainstream, it seems) of girl groups as a format just as, say, "rock band" would (or renaming to "Girl group (format)" or "All-female group"? though I think it's easier to leave it like that), but it seems urgent to me to create a "Girl group (genre)" page to distinguish the style and its sound/influences/aftermath.

It also seems that this idea is already shared in the Girl groups category, and we could perhaps create a specific category for those bands, too. Thoughts? --186.85.72.77 (talk) 11:00, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

PS: About.com seems also as a good source that consolidates the idea of girl group as a specific form of pop music: http://oldies.about.com/od/girlgroups/Girl_Groups.htm (specifically, http://oldies.about.com/od/girlgroupsfaq/Girl_Group_Music_and_Artists_FAQ.htm and http://oldies.about.com/od/girlgroups/g/girlgroup.htm ). It also tends to associate it with Brill Building in the musical sense. --186.85.72.77 (talk) 11:10, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

I see no evidence or citations supporting this as a genre. There is a rush to label everything a genre even when they are nothing more then labels. I further see no reason why the genre if there is one would need it's own separate article. Find, develop, and source the information here if it exists. I have removed the split tag as it has been in place for 3 months with no interest. Ridernyc (talk) 18:20, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

It's not just "girl group" as being applied to 1) the classic-era girl groups such as the Ronettes etc. and 2) later female singing groups such as the Spice Girls, but also 3) earlier groups such as the Andrews Sisters. There's a whole para about those groups at the top of the History section.

There's no need for a split, but there are two meanings to the term "girl group": 1) young female singing groups generally, from the early 20th century (maybe even earlier, dunno) til now, and 2) the Ronettes and groups like that with a specific style that flourished in a specific brief period -- the heyday of the girl groups.

There's no reason why we can't include all this in one article, and a split would present naming problems -- what are you going to have, Girl group (general) and Girl group (1950s-1960s)? But if enough material is added, that might be called for. Anyway, I rewrote the lead to help clarify all this. (I removed some material because it wasn't really correct (it's not just the 50s-60s groups who had separate songwriters, high production values, and a designated lead singer) or in the interest of brevity. Discussion of my edits is welcome. Herostratus (talk) 06:06, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Also K&J. The Ja.Wikipedia looks well developed in demarcation (perhaps more so and with better WP:CSB than here).
IMO, any worthwhile/robust re-demarcation of this page will endeavour to coalesce with Ja and Ko.Wikipedia pages. For the moment, all three pages (this, Ja & Ko) are about the same thing, just with a different perspective/foreground.
IMO, this page would far better WP:CSB with the addition of two+ short lead paragraphs on 20thC and 21stC Ja+Ko-influences/scene.   – Ian, DjScrawl (talk) 11:21, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Changing tones away from sales/success[edit]

So while working on this article, I noticed a tendency to try to prove a certain group has been incredibly successful in sales and performances and longevity. I understand why this might be important in establishing notability for inclusion on the page, but it doesn't make this particularly informative article in regards to how girl groups came about and have since evolved. There is a greater context [1] to the inclusion of women and girls in groups for musical performances and record sale numbers only gets us part of the way through in explaining that. I am asking for some help with re-writes on the 1990-present section to talk about the significance of having a series of mega-groups. I welcome anyone who would like to provide some input on the importance of Spice Girls' Girl Power mantra or the significance of having Girls Generation be some of the most influential figures in East Asia. Also, I've been trying to articulate the well-documented practices of girl groups singing songs penned by other people (often men or husband-wife duos).

After some thought, I am going to shift the Dance Pop era to 1994 to present, with the distinction being between self-formed groups and groups created through open auditions by professional manager and labels without initial input from members. Amiaheroyet (talk) 03:14, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

  1. ^ http://www.oxfordmusiconline.com/public/page/womentimeline