Talk:Glider

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Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Page Moved, Histories Merged  Ronhjones  (Talk) 22:43, 18 January 2010 (UTC)


  • Glider (sailplane)GliderGlider already redirects here. It makes no sense per the disambiguation policy for what is, by virtue of the redirect, apparently the primary topic, to be at a disambiguated title.

OR

OR

--Cybercobra (talk) 13:19, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

  • Weak support - It does make no sense to use a DABbed tile whtih Glider pointing to it. however, if the current title is prefered, I belive that is an admission it is not the primary topic, and Glider (disambiguation) should be moved to Glider. - BilCat (talk) 09:55, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Disagree - The difficulty here is that the primary topic is different from the common usage. (The primary topic, glider, is functionally any unpowered heavier-than-air aircraft, whereas in common usage glider is a sailplane). Currently the redirect reflects the common usage and the article naming reflects the primary topic. This seems to be a reasonable approach under the circumstances.- Wolfkeeper 12:09, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
    • What evidence is there for the primary topic and common usage being different? In my experience, it is extremely rare for that to be the case. Having said that, what would you think of the disambig option? --Cybercobra (talk) 12:19, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
      • Internal combustion engine, jet engine, steam engine; all of these have the common usage and primary topic being different. This is not uncommon.- Wolfkeeper 12:31, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
        • I'm not getting your example; "Engine" is both in common usage and the primary topic. --Cybercobra (talk) 12:41, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
          • Common usage of internal combustion engine is petrol or diesel piston engine. Common usage of jet engine is a turbofan. Common usage of steam engine is a steam driven piston engine. The encyclopedic primary topic for each of these is rather wider. Similarly there are a lot of gliders that are not sailplane-style gliders; sailplanes are not the primary topic, but are the common usage.- Wolfkeeper 13:07, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Having Glider redirect to any "Glider (phrase)" is unneeded. Whichever article is the primary topic should be at the base name, or if there is no primary topic the disambiguation page should be at the base name. Currently, the primary topic of "glider" is the sailplane article, and it should be moved to the base name. If there name "glider" would be incorrect for the sailplane article, then that article should be renamed to an appropriate name, without a disambiguating phrase. If either Sailplane glider or Glider sailplane is accurate, it could be used (and Glider changed to redirect to it), but I do not have the expertise to determine what its name should be if the current one, "glider", is not correct. -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:19, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
  • I support either move -- the current arrangement is inappropriate. Either there is a primary topic and glider (sailplane) should be moved to the base name or there is not, in which case, the disambiguation page should be moved to the base name. I've no opinion about whether or not there is in fact a primary topic in this case. olderwiser 15:22, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Move dab page to primary, it makes the most sense. 76.66.197.17 (talk) 19:43, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Move Glider (disambiguation) to Glider and Weak Support all other options; the current situation makes no sense and breaks disambiguation guidelines. Looking at page views for the pages currently on the disambiguation page:

I see no meaning "much more used than any other topic covered in Wikipedia" and conclude there is no primary topic --MegaSloth (talk) 00:07, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

  • Move Glider (disambiguation) to Glider and Weak Support all other options. Per MegaSloth's excellent analysis. --Cybercobra (talk) 00:16, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Move Glider (disambiguation)Glider This is a good idea. Although glider is most widely used to describe sailplanes, as Wolfkeeper says, the word also has generic meanings in aviation. After some discussion about 12 months ago, it was agreed that Glider (sailplane) was acceptable, but how the disambig page ended up as it was I have no clear recollection! JMcC (talk) 17:49, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Move the dab page here, as there seems to be no primary usage. For me, the primary meaning of "glider" is the marsupial (or group of marsupial species, more precisely), but I'm probably atypical in that. Ucucha 13:35, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Recent edits to this page[edit]

Some recent edits to this page have been counterproductive. I would like to clarify a few points:

  1. Disambiguation pages document the contents of articles on Wikipedia. They do not reflect what individual editors believe what ought be there, or might be there in the future.
  2. Currently Glider redirects to Glider (sailplane). This makes that article the de facto primary topic, which may be a redirect: "When the primary topic is a redirect, the primary topic line normally links to the redirect" MOS:DAB#Linking to a primary topic
  3. Disambiguation entries should not attempt to be long comprehensive descriptions of a topic; that is what the articles are for, instead "The description associated with a link should be kept to a minimum, just sufficient to allow the reader to find the correct link." (MOS:DAB#Individual entries)

I believe that this version satisfies the criteria better than subsequent ones by other editors. Given that there is some ambiguity over whether Glider (sailplane) is a primary topic, I am prepared to leave that point until the end of the current move request at glider, when the situation is likely to change. however over-complex descriptions serve disambiguation poorly and should be avoided.

Please discuss further revisions here so that we can avoid edit warring.

Many thanks, --MegaSloth (talk) 19:17, 12 January 2010 (UTC)