Talk:Gran Sasso raid

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Article needs cleanup -- moved some content from Otto Skorzeny. Xian 00:56, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps we could get a translation of "Unternehmen Eiche" and an explanation? Brutannica 09:20, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Studied?[edit]

"studied by Major Harald Mors" should this be "supported by Major..."?

Name[edit]

Should this be named Operation Eiche or Operation Oak, as per more common English usage and/or per standardization with the gazillions of other articles named as Operation such-and-such? LordAmeth 20:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Something in this article that is not clear (at least to me):

The Storch involved in rescuing Mussolini bore the radio code letters, or Stammkennzeichen, of "SJ + LL" in motion picture coverage, for propaganda purposes, of the daring rescue.

Does this mean that the plane had the call letters "SJ + LL", and therefore this code became an iconic commemoration of the raid? Or do these call letters have some special significance such that they were selected and used specifically for the raid? The quoted sentence seems to imply the latter, and does not make clear which is actually the case. Richard Myers (talk) 20:11, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Needs serious rewrite[edit]

The entire article is in need of a major rewrite. In its present form it is pretty much simply a short version of Skorzeny's own account. And while that may make for excellent propaganda, it has very little to do with what actually took place in September 1943.

First of all it was not a Skorzeny operation. It was planned by General Student and Major Harald Mors. Both of whom ridiculed Skorzeny's account after the war, calling it "a fairytale". Skorzeny pretty much hijacked the whole operation to an extent where he even endangered it. Not only did he commandeer a glider of Fallschirmjäger for his own purposes, he also insisted on being on the small plane that rushed Mussolini off. Only the presence of a very skilled pilot prevented a disaster due to overweight during takeoff.

Secondly Gran Sasso was located in the German controlled part of Italy. Ever wondered how the gliderborne Fallschirmjäger got home? Easy, they walked down the mountain, mounted the trucks waiting for them and drove home through friendly territory. Even without the commando raid any Italian guards loyal to the Badoglio government (and there were probably none) would have had to surrender eventually since they were literally surrounded. So calling this a "daring" raid is a bit of a stretch.

Thirdly, no shot was fired, because an Italian general, Soletti, kidnapped by the commandos in Rome simply persuaded the Italian guards to lay down their arms, which probably wasn't hard considering their options.

And last, but not least, the account of what was said about "my friend Adolf" is entirely Skorzeny's. According to other sources Mussolini was less than thrilled at the time. After the raid he asked Skorzeny for permission to travel to his home at Rocca delle Caminate, but that was denied him. The Germans likely feared that he would flee Italy and seek refuge in Portugal or Spain.

Much of what we like to think we know about the Gran Sasso raid is based on one single source; Skorzeny's autobiography. Unfortunately that is an extremely unreliable source which seldom corresponds with the accounts of others present at the time. As such the Skorzeny myth is one of the last, surviving pieces of Nazi propaganda that keeps being retold today; even here in this article on Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SlushSlush (talkcontribs) 15:12, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree - Skorzeny's role was to grab the glory on behalf of Kaltenbrunner and the SS, much to the chagrin of Student's paratroopers.----Streona (talk) 02:43, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

sgreed with everything except Portugal shouldn't be considered because Salazar would never allow Musulini to refugee. He was also a dictator but he was against his ideas and it could cause many problems. imo he would flee to spain asap. He was friend of Franco. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.246.28.222 (talk) 18:20, 24 June 2012 (UTC)