Talk:Gran Sasso raid

Article needs cleanup -- moved some content from Otto Skorzeny. Xian 00:56, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps we could get a translation of "Unternehmen Eiche" and an explanation? Brutannica 09:20, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Studied?

"studied by Major Harald Mors" should this be "supported by Major..."?

Name

Should this be named Operation Eiche or Operation Oak, as per more common English usage and/or per standardization with the gazillions of other articles named as Operation such-and-such? LordAmeth 20:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Something in this article that is not clear (at least to me):

The Storch involved in rescuing Mussolini bore the radio code letters, or Stammkennzeichen, of "SJ + LL" in motion picture coverage, for propaganda purposes, of the daring rescue.

Does this mean that the plane had the call letters "SJ + LL", and therefore this code became an iconic commemoration of the raid? Or do these call letters have some special significance such that they were selected and used specifically for the raid? The quoted sentence seems to imply the latter, and does not make clear which is actually the case. Richard Myers (talk) 20:11, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Needs serious rewrite

The entire article is in need of a major rewrite. In its present form it is pretty much simply a short version of Skorzeny's own account. And while that may make for excellent propaganda, it has very little to do with what actually took place in September 1943.

First of all it was not a Skorzeny operation. It was planned by General Student and Major Harald Mors. Both of whom ridiculed Skorzeny's account after the war, calling it "a fairytale". Skorzeny pretty much hijacked the whole operation to an extent where he even endangered it. Not only did he commandeer a glider of Fallschirmjäger for his own purposes, he also insisted on being on the small plane that rushed Mussolini off. Only the presence of a very skilled pilot prevented a disaster due to overweight during takeoff.

Secondly Gran Sasso was located in the German controlled part of Italy. Ever wondered how the gliderborne Fallschirmjäger got home? Easy, they walked down the mountain, mounted the trucks waiting for them and drove home through friendly territory. Even without the commando raid any Italian guards loyal to the Badoglio government (and there were probably none) would have had to surrender eventually since they were literally surrounded. So calling this a "daring" raid is a bit of a stretch.

Thirdly, no shot was fired, because an Italian general, Soletti, kidnapped by the commandos in Rome simply persuaded the Italian guards to lay down their arms, which probably wasn't hard considering their options.

And last, but not least, the account of what was said about "my friend Adolf" is entirely Skorzeny's. According to other sources Mussolini was less than thrilled at the time. After the raid he asked Skorzeny for permission to travel to his home at Rocca delle Caminate, but that was denied him. The Germans likely feared that he would flee Italy and seek refuge in Portugal or Spain.

Much of what we like to think we know about the Gran Sasso raid is based on one single source; Skorzeny's autobiography. Unfortunately that is an extremely unreliable source which seldom corresponds with the accounts of others present at the time. As such the Skorzeny myth is one of the last, surviving pieces of Nazi propaganda that keeps being retold today; even here in this article on Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SlushSlush (talk • contribs) 15:12, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree - Skorzeny's role was to grab the glory on behalf of Kaltenbrunner and the SS, much to the chagrin of Student's paratroopers.----Streona (talk) 02:43, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

sgreed with everything except Portugal shouldn't be considered because Salazar would never allow Musulini to refugee. He was also a dictator but he was against his ideas and it could cause many problems. imo he would flee to spain asap. He was friend of Franco. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.246.28.222 (talk) 18:20, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

"Ever wondered how the gliderborne Fallschirmjäger got home?"

Yes, for years, and I was very disappointed that not even this article said anything about it when I finally thought to look it up when I had a moment free. It's impossible to tell if they were expected to fight their way out, surrender en masse, fight to the last bullet, or what. This is extremely important and relevant information, and it's sad that 8 years later the article still doesn't appear to be much changed.

Idumea47b (talk) 06:21, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Gran Sasso raid. Please take a moment to review my edit. You may add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:

• Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/stam-s.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 14:41, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Fate of commandos?

The article says nothing about what happened to the commandos and glider pilots after Mussolini and Skorzeny were flown out. Constant Pedant (talk) 21:47, 7 November 2019 (UTC)