Talk:Green Arrow (Connor Hawke)

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Powers and abilities[edit]

DONT change the powers and abilities until you write on the discussion. im tired of fools keep putting names into the best fighters list. If you wish to argue, then write on Lady Shiva's page first. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkestknight (talkcontribs) 20:51, 6 April 2006

Valiant's Archer[edit]

I know they both owe a lot of their history to the old "Kung Fu" characters and that stereotype, but has anyone ever pointed out the great similarities between Connor and Archer (from Valiant's Archer and Armstrong)? They're very similar, and Archer predates Connor by several years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.185.100.8 (talkcontribs) 05:24, 25 June 2006

Fighters List[edit]

Nightwing has been stated on many occasions to be easily in the top ten martial artists in the DC universe, and almost as good as Batman. There is no way he shouldn't be on this list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geage karlyn (talkcontribs) 17:49, 26 June 2006

um...i odnt know where you are getting your sources but most of these cases have been disputed and put to an end on the Shiva Talk page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkestknight (talkcontribs) 15:55, 28 June 2006

The entire list of martial artists is unnecessary and should be removed from the article. Not only is it unencyclopedic, it also generates continuous debate unrelated to the main character of the article. In general, direct power comparisons between specific characters should be avoided on Wiki.--Trademark123 17:14, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Current Status[edit]

Why has no-one yet updated this to the point that Connor Hawke is now a member of the Justice League? I'll do it if there's no specific reason why he shouldnt be added... Pr1983 02:06, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Uhm, he isn't. Roy Harper is on the League. Connor used to be. Kusonaga 12:59, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Aww hell... my bad... i was convinced it was connor, i got the two of em confused... Pr1983 23:13, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of current status, his "List Of Justice League Members" entry states he is brain dead, while this entry states that he had recovered from his coma. I'm guessing this entry is correct, but can someone supply an citation?

65.96.104.82 (talk) 19:20, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Controversy[edit]

Just a quick note I think that contoversy as the title of the section relation to Conner's ethnicity is wrong. The paragraph doesn't show any evidence of controversy although it is a controversial topic. The title of the section should be Ethnicity or something to that effect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.131.181.126 (talkcontribs) 00:50, 19 March 2007

Dispute about Connor's Powers and Abilities[edit]

Someone out there may want to research Connor Hawke's abilities further. I could have swore, but can't clearly prove, that Connor Hawke has some sort of metahuman muscle memory ability that is similar to Marvel Comics' character Taskmaster. In other words, when Connor sees a maneuver being performed one time, he can permanently commit it to his memory.

This may have been mentioned in earlier issues of the Green Arrow comic from before Mia Dearden became the second Speedy, or even in the previous JLA series prior to Infinite Crisis. --Hotredtiger316 10:04, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Nope. Hasn't been. Connor has trained for years, and there have been isntances where he's been shown to be able to match an opponent move for move, but this is a matter of studying many disciplines, not of a meta-human ability. Connor, as he has 'narrated' many times, is a guy with a bow and arrows, like his father. That's it. ThuranX 11:36, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Controversies regarding Connor's age and DCU timeline[edit]

There is a controversy regarding Connor's age and DCU timeline. According to current DCU timeline, Oliver Queen has acted as Green Arrow approximately 12-13 years. The back story of Connor tells that Queen entered the ashram "decades ago", after acting several years as GA (certainly after Roy Harper had turned into junkie-teen). Therefore Connor's age should be around 10, not around 20. I know the world of super heroes is not always a very logical one, but there's something deeply wrong about Connor's current history - unless I've failed to notice any new retcons (not to mention the stupid "ripples in reality" caused by Superboy Prime).Jillord 03:47, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Black Superhero?[edit]

Someone removed Connor from the lists of black and asian superheroes. If he is 1/4 black and 1/4 asian, shouldn't he be on these lists? I mean seriously, there are a lot of eurasians on the list of asian heroes, and a lot a mulattos on the list of black heroes, (as well as many black-hispanic, asian-black, white hispanic etc). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.44.76.218 (talk) 02:28, 1 January 2008 (UTC)


Page Name[edit]

Anybody else think it should just be Connor Hawke? His last comic book series was called Connor Hawke and not Green Arrow (and that was a few years ago). ZODtheReaper (talk) 06:55, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Better Profile Picture?[edit]

Shouldn't Connor's picture be less, you know, white? We talk about his ethnicity right at the top of the page. I'd recommend something like this cover- http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/File:Green_Arrow_Vol_2_137.jpg or an uploaded better-quality picture.

165.123.239.231 (talk) 19:15, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

You may want to look at WP:CMOS#BOXIMAGE... and a croching in shadows image won't cut it. - J Greb (talk) 23:49, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Got it. I've got an image that'll work perfectly; I'll upload it once my account gets confirmed. DaggerPen (talk) 01:34, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Adequate?

Image:Connor_hawke_ga_v2_136.jpg DaggerPen (talk) 01:46, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Great pic choice.66.230.114.123 (talk) 03:14, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
May I ask what the reason for the dispute behind the image change is? And what it has to do with the policy on original research? Connor Hawke was introduced as dark-skinned and his multiracial heritage has been mentioned repeatedly. What's wrong with the image being put forth? It seems like a change that should be fairly uncontroversial for anyone who knows the background of the character, and I would be only too happy to cite literally any Connor appearance you may find in question. I just want an image where the Black character is actually Black. DaggerPen (talk) 03:31, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Nutshelling:
  • It's preferred that the image be of the character standing. Not contorted unless that is a very common depiction of the charter (see Spider-Man). And not exhibiting a power/ability they don't have - and an "in mid air" pose can be confusing "the character can jump" with "the character can fly".
  • The character's skin tone has been all over the map. The image you are proposing is, IIRC the overall run of the character, one of the few at the darkest end of the spectrum. The image should reflect how the character is commonly presented, not an editorial opinion of how he should be presented. The latter is a toss up between WP:OR and POV pushiung.
- J Greb (talk) 14:45, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Nutshelling: I would be more than willing to accept a picture of Connor that is still dark but is more in the middle of the spectrum, such as the one I have placed below, but this extraordinarily light-skinned white-looking Connor is just as misrepresentative of his appearance history as you claim the one I put forth was. Since the current profile picture is from the cover of Dragon's Blood, why not take one from its interior? This image seems to me to adequately meet the standards listed for superhero box images- It's full body and his face is at a 3/4 angle, with his body being close to a frontal shot, he is standing, he's not contorted, there's no color cast, the art isn't stylized, and while it's not exactly a blank background, its background is extraordinarily uncluttered.
Further Clarification: Connor's skin tone has been that dark on every single cover of his solo Green Arrow run except for one (which is presumably a coloring mistake considering that it does not match the tones of the covers around it), throughout the entirety of the interiors of his solo Green Arrow run (that ran the gamut a bit more between shades, but even at his lightest variation he was still darker than the image presented as his current profile picture). His skin tone throughout the interior of the Green Arrow/Black Canary Wedding Special and issues 1-4 and 11 and the covers of issues 1, 2, 4, and 14 of Green Arrow/Black Canary also closely matches the skin tone of his initial appearance. His appearances in GA/BC outside of that are more variable, in some panels being shown to be comparable to his previous skin tone but in some panels being lightened to a somewhat orangeish color that is both distinctively lighter than that of the previous issues and still darker than the whiter skin tone of those around him (and thus the skin tone of the current profile picture), with this variation sometimes occurring within the same issue.
It is also a somewhat lighter but still distinctive shade of brown in some parts of Green Arrow volume 3, specifically on the cover (but not in the interior) of issue 10, on the cover and in the interior art of the Secret Files and Origins issue (though not his profile blurb, which is interesting), and in issues 11, 21 (this one is somewhat unique and is discussed later), 44, 45, 66, 67 (cover and interior), 68, 73 (he is here notably the same skin tone as another Black hero with blonde hair, that being Black Lightning's daughter), 74 and 75. He is a more borderline shade of brown that is still on average darker than the current pic in 41 (very borderline, but still about a shade or two darker than Ollie), 43 (same situation), 50, 56, 57 (inconsistently), . Issues 24-25 also give him this strange light orange tone that frankly looks like a bad spray tan, but is still darker than the skin tones of the white people around him. It is also somewhat variable but still distinctively dark (typically about a shade darker than that of Lady Shado, a somewhat darker-skinned Japanese woman, and several darker-skinned East Asian people) in the interior art (but notably, not the covers) of Dragon's Blood, from which- ironically- this picture has been taken (it's the cover of #2, specifically, and is much lighter than Connor's skin tone in the interior art), despite the fact that it does not match the bulk of the art in Dragon's Blood. The art in that miniseries also emphasizes Connor's features, giving him monolidded eyes, a broad nose and full lips.
The evidence that it was simply a long-running coloring error is especially supported by issue 21, in which Connor's skin tone actually changes throughout the issue, which is to say that he was presented as dark-skinned on the cover and in the baby photo of him that Ollie retrieves, but is at best a half a shade darker than Ollie in his present appearances, indicating that the colorists at the time may have been getting confusing instructions or mixed reference pictures, and that the editor in charge of catching coloring issues failed to correct it. His multiracial identity and appearance is also referenced repeatedly in the text throughout his existence: it is referred to in GA V2 in issues 123, 125, and 126. In GA V3, it is referenced in issue 11, when a child calls him "Tiger Woods" (an obvious reference to his combination of white, Black and Asian heritage), and he says that he "gets that a lot." In GA/BC, it is referenced in the retcon of the reason that Connor went into the Ashram, which did not initially mention anything beyond Connor getting bullied, getting into one fight, and discovering the Ashram and really wanting to go; in issue 5 of GA/BC, however, it is revealed that Connor was being extensively bullied, and called "the worst kinds of racist..." [presumably things, though she is cut off], indicating that his bullying was largely due to his visibly multiracial appearance. This issue is also interesting because it's the issue immediately after Cliff Chiang's departure, when the colorist for the book also changed, and Connor's skin lightened by about 2 or 3 shades over the course of the issue, but was still darker than his father (again, it had a strange orange cast), and his mother Sandra "Moonday" Hawke was shown to have a skin tone comparable to Connor's tone from the previous issues in the flashbacks. Most importantly of all of this, his ethnicity has never been countermanded textually, merely his features erased in the art.
DaggerPen (talk) 21:01, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Considering that the only textual references to Connor's appearance have highlighted his visibly multiracial appearance, and that it was a large plot point in the retcon of his childhood, I'd think that a picture that better reflects his ethnicity would be appropriate. Gorblax (talk) 01:36, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

DaggerPen, you want to try condensing that wall-o-text, OR based (and yes, from what I can wade through it is), ram-through into some thing digestible?

Also, try basing your argument on a non-distorted image. As in legs that match the body.

- J Greb (talk) 03:26, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Condensed version: Connor's skin tone, while variable, has been notably darker than his current profile picture in many of his appearances, which is consistent with his ethnic background; consequently, while you might find my originally proposed picture too dark, the current one is by the same token too light. A picture of a more medium skin tone should be used; I will upload with several candidates as soon as I can go through my collection for some other suitable ones. DaggerPen (talk) 03:35, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
Sounds like a start of a plan. - J Greb (talk) 11:51, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
Before I go through the upload process for several different images, could I get some input on which of these qualify as contenders, both so that I know which ones to upload and so that I can get a sense of what is being looked for in case this becomes relevant for any other articles?
[1] (This is one of the ones I feel has the best potential, but I worry that the brown of his costume may be too red.)
[2] (I really like this one; are the spears in the way a problem? The current image does have arrows in the foreground, but they obscure less of his costume.)
[3] (This one may be a bit small, but I can enlarge it if it has potential, as I have access to the page from which it was taken.)
[4]
[5] (His first appearance as Green Arrow.)
DaggerPen (talk) 02:05, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
The first and 4th images would be good choices, and I'd lean to the 4th since the brown of the costume isn't pushing to red. - J Greb (talk) 14:45, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
Hrm. I think the angle in the first one is a bit better, so, as both were contenders, I went with that one. Thanks for helping me find an appropriate image! DaggerPen (talk) 07:59, 15 February 2013 (UTC)