Talk:Greyhound Lines

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Contents

[edit] Passenger volume

It would be useful to have some information on passenger volume included, relative to airline and rail travel. --Blainster 15:16, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Rape

I read about a number of girls being anally raped in the toilets of Greyhound buses. I can't remember whether they ever caught the guy but he was known as the "Greyhound Ass Ripper". I think that this should be incorporated into the article. CefurPanda (talk) 14:00, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

You mean in the terminals or on the buses themselves? I find it hard to believe that anyone could rape someone else IN the bus bathroom if the bus is in motion with a load of passengers. The reason being, everybody can hear EVERYTHING that goes on in the bathroom that is located on the bus. The bus toilet is in the back of the bus and there is NO privacy. Also, the offender would have to enter the bathroom while someone else was in it and then exit the bathroom thus exposing himself to everyone else (including the driver) on the bus. Not to mention the screaming victim. In other words, if the rapes occurred on the bus itself then it would have been fairly easy to catch the rapist. No? It's a lot more believable that assaults like this would happen in the bus terminal bathroom...a dangerous place indeed.

[edit] One psychological problem of riding the Greyhound

This was not my experience. Rode all night through. They don't need to empty the toilets that often.Mikereichold 05:21, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Agree with the comment above. Actually, much of the "Greyhound in the 21st Century" section, particularly the part about checked bags and smoking, strikes me as opinions about Greyhound's service, not so much information. Having taken more than my fair share of Greyhound rides (many unwillingly), I know it's no picnic, but it's still important to maintain a neutral tone. :-) Also, I would remove the bridge collapse in the "accidents" section--Greyhound was not at fault, and it's only tangientally related (at best) to the topic. Professor Harold Hill 05:56, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Relation to Railroad Passenger Services

Note that Greyhound provided an opportunity for the railroads to abandon marginal passenger operations sooner than they might have been able to otherwise. Someone needs to include that element in the main article along with more discussion of the changing demographic and land use trends that drove traffic primarily from the 1930's to the 1980's.

[edit] "Types of Demographics"

The sentence, "In addition, the types of demographics of riders have gradually shifted downward" should be rephrased or removed. It's true that there are fewer and fewer affluent Greyhound users, but this issue should be handled with more sensitivity. "Types of demographics" is a euphemism that I frankly have never heard. Perhaps a source can be brought in to show how competition from other forms of transportation (like private cars and planes) has created a tiered transit system.

I think you should suggest a better way of describing it. Geo8rge 17:08, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I am laughing very loudly.:) Geo8rge has it right. There's really no other way to describe this "trend". Nobody would ride Greyhound long distance unless they could NOT afford another means of transportation. Bizarre seat-mates, cramped seats, surly drivers and an INCREDIBLY smelly chemical toilet for hundreds if not thousands of miles is nobody's idea of high class. Or even medium class. LOL get real, man! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.190.4.176 (talk) 08:24, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Any information on bus maintaince?

I have taken Greyhound on more than one occasion and the bus broke down each time. Other passengers reported they were on other buses that broke down on enroute. Once the replacement bus arrived at it's destination, (late of course), the policy of Greyhound towards travelers who had to make connecting buses was they would have to wait for the next bus, no matter how long that wait was. Also, if bad weather delayed a bus from arriving on time, the connecting bus would not wait for the delayed passengers, nor would Greyhound send out another bus. Also, the passenger has the responsibility of putting their luggage on the bus, and taking it off, and transferring it if they are changing buses. Greyhound will issue luggage tickets to go on the baggage, but, the passenger has to make sure it gets on and off the bus. It is not like checking luggage on to a train or plane, where the carrier has the responsibilty for the luggage, once the passenger gets their seating ticket and their luggage tickets. All the luggage tickets do is show that a person had a certain number of pieces of luggage stored under the bus.204.80.61.10 15:59, 4 December 2006 (UTC)Bennett Turk

Stuff like this cries out for a separate criticism section, which Greyhound certainly deserves; riding the Greyhound isn't for amateurs, and there's certainly an art to minimizing the issues that you can control and being patient through the ones you can't (although expressing this without fear of turning Wikipedia into some kind of travelogue or handbook to Greyhound travel would be tricky). About the only good piece of official Greyhound advice is "show up an hour early" (although on some routes during seasonal travel, two hours is a better bet). There are so many caveats to riding Greyhound that you just have to learn with experience, and first-time travelers can get doubly frustrated. Jogging down to the airport for a lovely flight it's not, and you find people every day who expect that and are incensed when it's more analogous to riding the subway. The problem here is that there just aren't enough formal references about the trials and tribulations of Greyhound travel. You hear about the odd accident or two, but that's about it. I'm sure half of us could write a whole OR-sourced article that was pretty darned conclusive, but that doesn't help anyone. The Greyhound experience also seems to be significantly different from region to region, and is like an entirely different service once you get on a bus operated by Greyhound Canada.
As an aside, either I've been extremely lucky, or you've had an awful string of bad luck; I've never been in the middle of a breakdown, although I've certainly had my share of delayed routes as a result waiting for a broken-down connecting bus. The longest I've ever had to wait is five hours in Atlanta (arguably one of the worst terminals ever, especially when it's crowded) due to a combination of holiday crunch and weather-related air travel overflow. Gnu 08:19, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Greyhound Lines is the largest inter-city common carrier of passengers by bus in North America"

Only if you don't consider Mexico as being part of North America. Grupo Estrella Blanca easily blows away Greyhound in terms of passenger miles carried. 67.176.196.10 08:10, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Regarding "citation needed," this statement is the very first sentence on the Greyhound website homepage, www.greyhound.com I'm not disputing the Grupo Estrella Blanca assertion, I just happened to be researching bus fares and noticed the "citation needed" caption when the Wikipedia article popped up in my Google search. I don't know how to enter citations.

If we can document Grupo Estrella Blanca figures, I think we may have to categorize the Greyhound website source as "sales puffery", or alternatively, more graciously attribute the claim as someone as inferred earlier to the common problem of failing to consider Mexico as part of North America. Often, it seems NA is thought of as only including Canada and the U.S. 49 continental states. Vaoverland 23:27, 30 June 2007 (UTC)


I do not know who owns Grupo Estrella Blanca but Crucero and Americanos, both Mexican carriers with substantial miles in both Mexico and the United States, are wholely owned subsidiaries of Greyhound Lines, Inc. So the Greyhound website may not be "sales puffery" after all.

However, if you will look on the website of Greyhound's new owners FirstGroup (http://www.firstgroup.com/corpfirst/company.php) you will see that the claim is "Greyhound Lines, Inc. is the only national provider of scheduled intercity bus services in the United States and Canada" It does not say "in North America."Ajh0153 06:47, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

I have deleted this statement, under challenge. If it can be cited, then please restore. --AEMoreira042281 (talk) 22:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cite a source for the Greyhound naming contest trivia

Without a source for the Greyhound "naming contest" tidbit in the trivia section, that part sounds very much like an urban legend, or something heard from a "friend of a friend". Please cite a source, or remove. -Rhrad 05:53, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Major Routes

Add info on major routes, most importantly International ones. Info on major terminals/transfer points? Tcmetro 14:23, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Security?

I see the post 911 security talk, but wonder why a bus line would need airline style security, which is probably extreme in comparison to what is accomplished. Too much space is devoted to it Geo8rge 17:09, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

You've obviously never traveled Greyhound. Not only are an apparent majority of the stations located in high-crime parts of their respective cities, but incidents aboard buses are fairly common. It's also arguably notable because of the large proportion of low-income passengers and immigrants who travel Greyhound, and until recently you only needed to show any identification if you were picking up a ticket at the counter. There have also been widespread reports of drug trafficking via Greyhound, but I don't have any first-hand experience other than regularly being offered a wide variety of substances while en-route (which, while not allowed on buses or stations, are probably a requirement for some to make Greyhound a tolerable experience). Many sweeping changes in security procedures have been made in the past few years, both in response to the Manchester driver attack and to boost Greyhound's flagging image. Trust me, Greyhound probably deserves more security than most airlines. Gnu (talk) 18:34, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Challenge to paragraph on treatment of minorities

Minority and low-income passengers, despite being the bulk of Greyhound's business, are often treated poorly by drivers, who do not hesitate to call on local police when these passengers complain

Someone inserted this paragraph into the section "Greyhound Lines in the 21st century." Not only is this unverified, but it sounds more like anger someone is taking out against Greyhound via Wikipedia, perhaps from a personal experience. If so, this would violate Wikipedia's neutrality policy. Hellno2 19:03, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

The replacement paragraph was non-neutral, and before the attacks on drivers, abuse of passengers was the norm: facts appear above in the article itself which demonstrate that Greyhound thinks its passengers are dogshit. The original paragraph was NPOV: the replacement paragraph you added was POV. Prior to the 2001 attack, Greyhound drivers were systematically abusing passengers. It was standard practice to eject people from Greyhound buses for loud talk.

Hey, I've ridden Greyhound and there are some creepy passengers who think nothing of yelling at the driver or anyone else within earshot. Especially if they've been drinking. I've also been on a bus where the driver pulled the bus over when we all complained it was too cold, and he had the colossal nerve to read us the riot act. So be fair because you know if you've ridden Greyhound, it goes both ways. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.190.4.176 (talk) 09:06, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I have restored the paragraph. Cease your vandalism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.82.33.202 (talk) 05:12, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Anything included regarding the abuse of passengers by drivers should stay. And anyone who disagrees has obviously never taken Greyhound. The only part I disagree with is that Minority passengers are often treated poorly. This isn't completely true. I am white and I was treated like absolute crap (along with several african-american riders) on my last (and final) Greyhound trip last month.

And anyone removing that because of "point of view" should probably remove anything involving people tortured or treated unfairly as well because that can be considered "point of view" regardless of how bad it was. Greyhound treats passengers like shit and you would be HARD PRESSED to find anyone who could deny that. 09:16, 11 October 2007

Wikipedia is NOT a forum to discuss how a company treated its customers. It is a VIOLATION of Wikipedia's policies to write about this in an article UNLESS a citation can be provided to a reliable source (i.e. a news article) describing at a NEUTRAL POINT OF VIEW about the situation. For example, if you found a news article about Greyhound's mistreatment of customers, you could cite and summarize the facts in this article. However, you must NEVER write about your own personal experiences. Hellno2 14:14, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
I have noticed that despite Wikipedia Policy's opposition to this, the section that attacks Greyhound keeps reappearing. This is a violation of WP:COI. It is coming to the point that perhaps, the 3RR rule should be applied. Maybe, semi-protection of this article could be useful in this case. Hellno2 16:20, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Agree with Hellno2: clearly statements like these need reliable citations. Guanxi 19:09, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Greyhound dog.gif

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Image:Greyhound dog.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 21:06, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Greyhound spin off from parent

There are factual errors in this section. The ICC did not encourage small carriers to create the National Trailways Bus System. That was not their congressional mandate. The carriers themselves created to system to compete with Greyhound. The ICC permitted the coordination that was necessary to effect the coordinated system.

Second, the negotiations with the labor union in 1986 that eventually came to impasse and resulted in the sale of the company to Fred Currey and other Dallas investors began well before the contract to sell the company was executed. In fact if the union and Greyhound had come to terms the company would not have been sold. The labor contract expired Oct 31, 1986. The contract for sale was executed on Dec 23, 1986 and the sale closed on Mar. 17, 1987.

The statement that Greyhound actions forced small operators out of business (in the 1987 to 1990 timeframe)is incorrect as to the time of the situation. From 1987 to 1991 Greyhound actively worked with small carriers to maintain their feed of passengers to and from the Greyhound system. After Frank Schmeider became CEO in 1992 the company adopted policies that were adverse to small carriers. That policy was later reversed in 1994 and Greyhound began actively working with the small carriers again.

Finally, the Greyhound bankrupcy that occurred in 1990 was not a result of labor law violations. The union struck the company on Mar.2, 1990. The bankrupcty occurred because the company tried to operate limited portions of the system with temporary replacement drivers (which strategy is legal under US labor law) but the union response was so challenging that the company had to spend unanticipated millions on security and the passengers stayed away to avoid the conflict.In fact while the union accused the company of illegal conduct, the company countersued the union for RICO violations.

````busexec, Nov. 24, 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Busexec (talk • contribs) 17:22, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Harrisburg template?

The template {{Harrisburg Travel}} has been added at the bottom of this article. The problem is that Greyhound is an international company serving 48 US states, Canada, and Mexico. Placing the Harrisburg template here would justify putting countless more similar ones in this article, thereby cluttering the page.

Who thinks it should be removed from here?Sebwite (talk) 01:32, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it doesn't belong in this article. It should be remove, ASAP! --BWCNY (talk) 07:48, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Seat belt comment needed

I had occasion this week to make a trip involving four Greyhound coaches and one Americanos. None of the five had seat belts. Why not? The article needs a section on safety which would address this and other safety issues.Jm546 (talk) 18:22, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Coach buses do not require seat beats at all of the passengers except for the driver. Coach buses are safe because they design capable to stand impact on crashes and speed. --BWCNY (talk) 07:51, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
School buses are the same way - if there were safety issues, that would be the first place they'd install them. --NE2 00:13, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I see where some may find bias in this article.

in the "see also" section the article lists several other major bus lines that otherwise have no mention in the article, in particular "peter pan" which in addition to greyhound, have recently setup a joint venture called boltbus (why is there is a boltbus external link) in the main article????

boltbus was founded with the aim of directly competiting with the so-called chinatown buses and their lucrative markets of new york-boston-washington. this article has no mention of the chinatown competition.

Lucky dog (talk) 00:52, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article needs route map

I'd like to see a route map. If Greyhound says that getting from point A to point B requires one change of bus, I'd like to know what the actual route is, where I change buses. Their site has no map of their routes (that I can find). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.91.173.36 (talk) 16:47, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

The only such problem is that such a map would probably be too unwieldy for Wikipedia and Wikimedia users.--AEMoreira042281 (talk) 13:34, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Decapitation murder

The incident on the night of 30 July 2008, wherein Vince Weiguang Li of Edmonton, Alberta, stabbed and hacked fellow passenger Tim McLean of Winnipeg, Manitoba, aboard a bus near near Portage la Prairie, Manitoba happened on a Greyhound Canada bus. Any references to the incident in the Greyhound Lines article, should be deleted. Different company, different article. —QuicksilverT @ 20:37, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

  • If this is the case, why does the article state in the intro that Canadian operations are handled out of Calgary, and why has PR regarding this incident been handled out of Texas? At least be consistent and delete all references to the US company's Canadian operations from the entire article. 206.55.181.130 (talk) 05:52, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Agreed, should be consistent. The Canadian operation is a separate company. Presumably the PR has been outsourced. Either way, there shoudn't be similiar incident reports on both. Nfitz (talk) 07:03, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Agreed; mention it on the Greyhound Canada page. Checking to see if it is there. --AEMoreira042281 (talk) 00:03, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Perhaps the solution is a brief one-line mention referring to Greyhound Canada#Incidents Nfitz (talk) 00:07, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
    • Actually, since Greyhound Canada and Greyhound Lines are separate entities, this incident should be noted on the article for the Canadian company, and not the US company, as First has them as two separate companies. --AEMoreira042281 (talk) 00:19, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
    • I agree, and I deleted 3 times yesterday, but IPs kept readding without reading here. When I asked for semi-protection to stop IPs editing for a few days, I was told there must be edit warring, and the page was fully protected. Most in discussion here seems to support this text being there at all - but we can't stop it from coming back? While I don't see the need for any text, I wonder if just a simple redirection might at least stop people needlessly adding lots of details every time it gets wiped. Nfitz (talk) 01:53, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I've tried something to both respect the belief that it not be on this page and redirect to where it should be. Comments? Nfitz (talk) 23:16, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

  • I commented it at the beginning of the section. But another editor apparently didn't get the message. --AEMoreira042281 (talk) 00:07, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] This article contains heavy bias

As a random net surfer who just happened to come across this article on Greyhound Coach lines I have to say I was perplexed and surprised at the lack of neutrality presented in this article. Furthermore it lacks the qualities I would expect of an encyclopedic entry.

I recommend that this article be flagged for lack of neutrality and corrected to conform with wikipedia standards. That also includes citing sources which has not been done at all in a majority of the paragraphs relating to "mistreatment of passengers".

Paradoxbox2 (talk) 00:54, 14 September 2008 (UTC) Paradoxbox2 Sept. 14 2008

Can you point out where, exactly? --AEMoreira042281 (talk) 05:04, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gripe sheet?

Is the "discussion" above a sincere intellectual attempt to review, improve, or expand the basic article?
Or is this a gripe sheet about regrettable personal experiences?
Is that a proper function of Wikipedia?
DocRushing (talk) 14:28, 21 October 2008 (UTC) Doc Rushing

[edit] Name of founder

According to sv:Eric Wickman the name of the foudner is Eric Wickman not Carl. There is also a photo of a memorial statue supporting this claim. Wanpe (talk) 17:54, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

His full name was Carl Eric Wickman.
However, he expressed a preference to be known as Eric.
DocRushing (talk) 16:46, 25 October 2008 (UTC) Doc Rushing

[edit] New source that can be looked at

In just surfing the Internet and thanks to the Yahoo! Greyhoundthroughexpress group, I found this preview from Google Books that has a lot of good stuff about Greyhound, and could be of use to this article. (From it, I have immediately added information about the worst Greyhound crash to date, near Waco, Texas). --AEMoreira042281 (talk) 04:27, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Post War section

I tried my hand at lessening the percieved POV in the Post-War section, added some citations and adjusted the picture formatting. Please let me know if they are unacceptable. After about 2 weeks, I'll remove the dispute tag if nothing else is mentioned. Thanks. Snagglepuss (talk) 19:57, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your work.
I've felt concern about the lack of neutrality -- indeed, the obvious bias -- in some of the comments.
Keep it up.
DocRushing (talk) 01:01, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] not only United States – but it is

The first sentence implies that the Greyhound only serves the US. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.224.208.60 (talk) 09:28, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Greyhound Lines, Inc., GLI, does not operate in Canada.
The Greyhound firm in Canada is a completely different corporation.
Likewise, the current GLI is not the same company as the one which Eric Wickman started in Minnesota in 1914.
In 1926 Wickman and others formed the Motor Transit Corporation,
which in -29 they renamed as The Greyhound Corporation (with an uppercase T, because "the" was an integral part of the corporate entity).
In 1987 The Greyhound Corporation, based in Phoenix, Arizona, sold its highway-coach operating business (its core bus business)
to a new company, named as the Greyhound Lines, Inc., called also GLI, based in Dallas, Texas –
a separate, independent, unrelated firm, which then was the property of a group of private investors.
After the sale to the GLI, The Greyhound Corporation (the original parent Greyhound firm) became renamed as the Greyhound-Dial Corporation, then the Dial Corporation, then the Viad Corporation.
[The contrived name Viad appears to be a curious respelling of the former name Dial – if one scrambles the letters D, I, and A, then turns the V upside down and regards it as the Greek letter lambda – Λ – that is, the Greek equivalent of the Roman or Latin letter L.]
No, the GLI is not the same as Greyhound in Canada.
[The subject of the article is Greyhound Lines, Inc., the current firm in the USA, not Greyhound elsewhere and not the previous Greyhound firm in the past.]
Doc. DocRushing (talk) 14:51, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Greyhound In Popular Culture

Shouldn't there be a section regarding Greyhound in popular culture? Greyhound as a subject or reference has appeared many times over in movies, songs, stories, history etc., but oddly none of that is mentioned in the article. For example, the action in Frank Capra's film, "It Happened One Night" mostly takes place on a Greyhound bus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.190.4.176 (talk) 09:15, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

There once was a huge section concerning that topic. But it has been deleted due to wp:trivia.
This is the last version containing the section 'References in popular culture': http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Greyhound_Lines&oldid=239926596 -- 82.83.81.58 (talk) 02:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
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