Talk:Gutzon Borglum

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Fathers bigamy[edit]

Gutzon Borglum's father had two wives, not more. The fact is, he was a bigamist not a polygamist. Wetman 17:27, 4 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Agreed. However, the practice (if he was indeed LDS) would have been called Plural Marriage or Polygamy from his viewpoint. That is why the change was made. I'll change to plural marriage with an explanation. Thanks. Visorstuff 23:16, 4 Dec 2003 (UTC)
That's fine now. Wetman 10:48, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Rushmore timeline[edit]

How Long did it take him? (Anon.)

He was still hard at work at mt Rushmore when he died. his son quickly wrapped up the project, pretty much complete as it was. --Wetman 21:50, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Image[edit]

I uploaded Image:Gutzonborglum.jpg from the Library of Congress to replace the first image of the article, which has an obselete PD tag. Problem is, I forgot to remove the frame of the image (and I don't have Paint Shop Pro or other Graphics software). Can somebody quickly remove the frame and re-upload it? Thanks, AndyZ 00:20, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

KKK 'sympathetic connections' or 'membership'?[edit]

The article says: "At Stone Mountain he developed sympathetic connections with the reorganized Ku Klux Klan, who were major financial backers for the monument." But according to Stone Mountain, he was a Ku Klux Klan member, which is more than just having sympathetic connections. The two articles should be resoved. --Mmathu 07:06, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


It says he's a member in the Mount Rushmore article, as well. Glitterglue 23:29, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

According to the Shaff's book on Borglum, Six Wars at a Time, which includes about 20 references to the KKK in the index, he was a member. As with most things surrounding this complex man it is not a simple as it might seem wher we talking about joining the KKK in 2006. The KKK was being reinvented starting in 1915, the time at which Borglum was spending a lot of time in Atlanta trying to get funding for his Stone Mountain project. He saw the newly emerging KKK as being a source for such finincial resources. He also saw the KKK as being a rural populist movement, set up to hopefully wrest power from the urban capitalists who were running the country. Long story short, Gutzon Borglum was a member of the KKK. Carptrash 14:11, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
I suggest that the 'sympathetic connections' comment in this article be changed accordingly. Any disagreement? — Mmathu 07:10, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Here is what 6 Wars says.
By joining and trying to mold the Klan, Gutzon was not seeking personal power. He did not want to wear a hood and robe , stand before a burning cross or preach a morality based on fear or floggings. Gutzon was a Klansman, but not for the reasons held by most other Klansmen. p. 197
So my guess is that a lot of foks will view his being a member in terms of the Klan today, but oh well. Carptrash 15:34, 17 October 2006 (UTC) PS I wish you'd register as a wikipedian, Mmathu.

I just moved this to discussion[edit]

"(anscestor of elizabeth jean troyer who currently resides in boise idaho. her father was his favorite nephew) "

If it is to stay in the article - - -- well we need to discuss it. Carptrash 14:20, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Poop on him?[edit]

One S.O.B has written the following:

(John) Gutzon de la Mothe Borglum (March 25, 1867 – March 6, 1941) was the American sculptor famous for creating the monumental presidents' heads at Mount Rushmore, South Dakota, as well as dozens of other impressive public works of art. POOP ON HIM

I somehow couldn't find it in the "edit this page". Can someone look into it?

You were looking at an older, already fixed version of the article. Or perhaps it was getting fixed as you saw it. Borglum gets a fair amount of these sorts of edits, which is the price we pay for allowing Jr. high school kids to edit. Who was it that said said that " eternal vigilance is the price of freedom"? Anyway, this is why many/most dedicated wikipedians do vandalism patrol. Carptrash 14:45, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I just cut this sentence out[edit]

and we can talk about it here (I added the bold).

and the Stone Mountain carving in Stone Mountain, Georgia, which is the largest Confederate monument

The Stone Mountain fiasco is discussed in the article, but since none of Gorglum's work there remains, the sentence (opinion) does not really belong in the introduction. Carptrash 06:48, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Harvard Technical College[edit]

What is Harvard Technical College? I've never heard of it. I can't find search results outside of this article. Schear (talk) 17:12, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Mount Rushmore[edit]

What is the source for the statement that the entire Louisiana Purchase was sacred Native American territory? There were a lot of tribes in the Mississippi/Missouri River drainage, and the sentence implies that all of them thought that the whole area was sacred.

And, more specifically, what is the source for the statement the Borglum's reason for including Jefferson was that the Indians thought that the area of the Louisiana Purchase was sacred? Broadcaster101 (talk) 06:15, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I think what is intended here is a two part thing. One, Jefferson was added to the group because he added the Louisiana Purchase to the United States (I have a source for that ) and secondly, that the Black Hills were sacred land to some native peoples. This whole section can probably be improved. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 15:08, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I just moved an entire section here to talk about[edit]

Here it is:

== Controversy ==
"Controversy surrounding the alleged racist roots of the building of Mt. Rushmore is well documented. Many claim it was not an innocent gesture to commemorate George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Theodore Roosevelt, and Abraham Lincoln, rather, a warning, if not blatant threat, to any race besides white, that whites ruled the United States of America and not Blacks, Mexicans, or especially Indians.
Many claim that Gutzon Borglum, the creator, was not accepting of other races and that his contribution to the dominant ideology of the era not only exalts the contribution of whites to the making of America civilization, but tries to exclude blacks from the myth of America’s new creation. Borglum’s view of America was that of a white nation in conflict with other racial and ethnic groups, some of whom came before the Europeans, such as Hispanics and Native Americans, and others, such as Africans and Asians, who were used as laborers to build the countries material infrastructure.
While at Stone Mountain, it is said that Borglum became a senior advisor to the newly reborn Ku Klux Klan. Whether this accorded with a racist world view, or if it was simply one way to bond with some of his patrons on the Stone Mountain project, is unclear. Borglum's motivations for dealing with the KKK may be hazy, but the association has long been a matter of public record. "

I don't believe that statements such as ",,,,is well documented" can be allowed to stand without the documentation being revealed. the same is true for the statement "Many claim that ... " without at least some suggestion as to who the "many" might be. Ditto for " long been a matter of public record." Please tells us where in the record. It should not be too hard. An article on Borglum without a Controversy section is like an egg with out salt, or as my grandmother once said, "a kiss without a beard." However it needs to be done right and I believe that what we have here ain't right. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 23:37, 29 October 2011 (UTC)