Talk:Héctor Camacho

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Headline text[edit]

Why is this page disputed?

Because it's not very NPOV--it seems rather slanted towards Mr. Camacho according to my first reading. The article itself is also very poorly written and needs a major cleanup.

I think the fight that actually caused Camacho to change his style was not against the Jet. It was against Edwin Rosario who was not even mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.249.35.94 (talk) 02:25, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

"This fight would have ended in a draw if it were not for the fact that the referee deducted one point from Camacho for refusing to touch gloves with Haugen at the start of the 12th round." - I saw this fight, and it's not how I remember it. I seem to recall the ref asked the fighters to touch gloves, and Camacho put his hand out to do so. Vinny Pazienza stood there refusing to touch, and it looked like Camacho had decided that the fight must be now on and threw a punch. It was an error of judgement on behalf of Camacho, but the lack of sportsmanship, as far as I'm concerned, was all on Vinny. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.186.90.65 (talk) 16:41, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Shot[edit]

Camacho shot! [1] 108.14.126.241 (talk) 02:23, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Apparently he has not been pronounced dead yet by physicians (day/hour); if so, the death date currently appearing in this wiki page is premature. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.39.221.166 (talk) 21:30, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Once again, the wikivultures have declared someone dead before they were taken off life support. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.185.254.158 (talk) 16:19, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

    • Your news article however is not a reliable source because it is from Fox News, no I am kidding and I shouldn't be because this man who is only 50 years old is brain dead and soon to be actually dead. But I would wait until he's litterally dead as in his heart has stopped beating.Dr. Pizza (talk) 21:11, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
      • There's nothing wrong with FOX News as a source per se and there's no room for kidding here. The problem is the source quotes an entertainment show quoting a third party who is neither family nor a medical or legal professional. The info is still in the article but hidden until we get a better ultimate source. And it syas brain dead, not legally dead. μηδείς (talk) 22:14, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
Confirmed what? give a quote and a reference or at least a link. μηδείς (talk) 22:55, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

All news reports state he clinically brain dead however they are waiting for his son to arrive soon before making a final decision on turning off the machine. people just cant wait to pronounce someone dead, so disrespectful — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.40.222.181 (talk) 00:04, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

I have requested temporary full-protection of this article. In the meanwhile, I urge editors to PLEASE stop this. Wikipedia's goal is not to be the first to report breaking news; it is to report what has been said by reliable sources. There is no harm in waiting, but serious harm can come from jumping the gun. WP:BLP is a policy that must be taken seriously. Joefromrandb (talk) 00:22, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
I got the partial protection. I am not sure a full protection is necessary, but I have put a rather LOUD warning to people not to ad a premature death or else. μηδείς (talk) 01:49, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Since he no longer moves and will actually die given that his brain no longer functions rendering the body virtually useless, is it possible to change some verbs to past tense? 72.225.242.221 (talk) 02:53, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Ok, you can open ONE present before christmas, you ghoul. 99.47.70.89 (talk) 05:20, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Doctor Ernesto Torres has stated to the media that Camachos death certificate will state november 22 2012 as his date of death. The day he was declared clinically dead. http://www.elnuevodia.com/acabalaagonia-1393096.html el nuevo dia newspaper as the source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Patypr31 (talkcontribs) 10:52, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 23 November 2012[edit]

Please change Camacho also had notable fights defeating Mexico's Roberto Durán twice, and knocking out to Camacho also had notable fights defeating Panama's Roberto Durán twice, and knocking out Jlmora2000 (talk) 15:31, 23 November 2012 (UTC) Yes check.svg Done μηδείς (talk) 18:58, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

I request the second paragraph be rewritten. In the context of Hector having criminal problems it reads as though Hector committed a car jacking. Further into the paragraph it reads like the recent shooting incident was directly related to a trial he was waiting on and that his friend was shot in an entirely different incident. 99.47.70.89 (talk) 18:50, 23 November 2012 (UTC) Yes check.svg Done μηδείς (talk) 18:58, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Driver[edit]

I don't think the friend needs to be mentioned in the lede. First of all, he wasn't his "driver", and second, mentioning him adds nothing to the introduction regarding Camacho. Whatever details need to be told about the friend that was killed should go on the corresponding section. Thief12 (talk) 20:55, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Per MOS, the lead should mention all major points. Whether Camacho dies or doesn't--I hope he recovers--the fact that someone died in a car with him in a shooting is about as big as it gets.
If you have a better word than driver, that's fine, but my understanding is the car belonged to Mojica. I may be entirely wrong on that, the press has been contradictory on a lot, and deleting driver as opposed to friend won't hurt. I will check when I get back from the gym. μηδείς (talk) 21:04, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
Since this is Camacho's article, the major point is that he was shot. Obviously all major points doesn't mean everything. I don't think it's necessary to mention in the lede that another man died in the same incident. The details can be read in the section about the shooting. Also, the car did belong to Mojica's, but the way it read was as if Mojica worked as Camacho's driver or chauffeur. Thief12 (talk) 23:42, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
I am not entirely set in that the phrase "his driver" needs to appear in the lede. However, for the record, the phrase "his driver" is as was spoken by Peter Jennings in the NBC Nightly News tonight (11/23/2012). Of course, news media has been known to report incorrectly occassionally.... But at least, the media that investigated this was probably onsite - and I wasn't. In addition, USA Today ([2]) and other national media outlets do refer to the other person as "the driver of the vehicle". Note the lede didn't say "his chauffer", but "his driver": it merely implies that Camacho was a passenger in the car being occupied by only two people. Again, whatever, you guys decide on this "driver" issue, will be fine with me. My name is Mercy11 (talk) 04:03, 24 November 2012 (UTC), and I approve this message.
Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. This looks to be a discussion, once there is a consensus please either add/change/remove the content yourself for change the answered parameter to no. Callanecc (talkcontribslogs) 09:41, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

The phrasing has been changed to make it clear that Mojica was his friend who was driving, not his chauffeur. μηδείς (talk) 16:44, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Edits to lede[edit]

Just to expand on some back-and-forth changes that are going on before it turns into an edit war :-D I'll just share what my rationale for the lede is, and we can all throw in our opinions. I felt the logical approach was for the second paragraph to mention everything notable about Camacho's career, while the third-and-last paragraph should deal with his legal issues, TV appearances, and shooting. I think that Mercy11 agrees with me. Medeis feels that the lead should be in a more chronological order, with the mention of the 2008 WBE title in the last paragraph. IMO, it breaks the flow of the paragraphs. The lede doesn't have to be chronological, and I think that dedicating the second paragraph alone to his boxing career is a better approach. It's a minor issue, but I think we can all share our opinions and reach an agreement. Thief12 (talk) 23:50, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

  • Some articles lend themselves to chronological lede sections better than others: History of Mexico, for example. Biographies, however, like Hector Camacho, IMMHO, don't always lend themselves to being presented chronologically. I recently made some changes to the lede section in this article, unaware that it may have been controversial for some (maybe, maybe not -- not sure yet). The changes I made presented the lede section in a roughly, but not exactly, chronological order. However, a chronological ordering was not my goal; my goal was ease of flow so that information can be share without overburdening the readers with distractions. However, I am open to opinions from other contributors. I certainly don't intend to start WW III over this article's lede section! My name is Mercy11 (talk) 01:12, 24 November 2012 (UTC), and I approve this message.
Agreed with Mercy11's points. The WBE fight comes 11 years after his last notable bout and is of a piece with his Spanish Dancing with the Stars appearance, etc., it belongs in the third paragraph. It neither makes sense to include it with his upward trajectory in the second paragraph, nor would it help to make the third paragraph solely about his arrests, shootings and drug involvement. It is fine and logical as is. μηδείς (talk) 02:22, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

On the same area (it should spell "lead", by the way), I had to add quotes to the term "brain dead", while copyediting, because that was a statement from the doctors. Due to BLP policy I think I would wait a little bit more before speculating on his death. --Marianian(talk) 14:45, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

use of cocaine in puerto rico and USA[edit]

perhaps the article could enlighten us on how popular this drug is. it seems easy to see the shooting as 'drug-related'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.84.95.229 (talk) 18:49, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

The article is about Camacho, we have other articles about drugs and using articles as a soapbox WP:SOAPBOX is against policy. μηδείς (talk) 02:29, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Request[edit]

Can someone add a section about his method of fighting? 72.225.242.221 (talk) 22:33, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Requests like this on the talk page are honored if you suggest specific wording. We'd need something supported by good references. If you can provide a link or two saying "Sports writer A said Camacho fought like this, while Sprots Writer B said he fought like that" we could add it. μηδείς (talk) 02:32, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

septuple champion?[edit]

We need a ref for this, and an explanation that it is not all major titles, which claim belongs to Pacquiao, with refs. In the meantime I have put a cautionary note in ref form. μηδείς (talk) 04:27, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

When linking the article, I clearly added the "lesser" part when referencing the other organizations. The Pacquiao reference seems random at best, especially since Manny himself can only claim to be a eight-division champion (which he does constantly) by counting the minor IBO belt at 140 pounds. El Alternativo (talk) 07:37, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
The problem is that while we have a reference at the Pacquiao article to the claim, we have no reference I can find anywhere, in this, the septuple, or the Spanish language article that supports this claim. It needs to be referenced or all the titles to be noted explicitly in a note. A link to the septuple article would be sufficient if there were a ref provided there, but there isn't. μηδείς (talk) 21:41, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
"He is one of a handful of boxers to win championships in three weight classes, and the first to win in seven divisions." El Alternativo (talk) 22:07, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
Excellent! Thanks, I have added it. μηδείς (talk) 22:30, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done

The Wayans Bros.[edit]

Has anyone been able to find a reliable reference for his appearance in this show? As far as I recall, the portrayal of Manuel "Hot Pepper" López was his only acting role, which would be a nice addition to that short "Television career" section. El Alternativo (talk) 01:02, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Birth of first son - where?[edit]

His son Hector Camacho, Jr. was born in 1978, when Camacho was 16 and living in NY - he won Golden Gloves titles in 1978, 1979 and 1980 in NY. The article on his son says he was born in San Juan, Puerto Rico, but is not sourced. Looks more likely that he was born in New York. Anyone have reliable sources on this and the name of his mother?Parkwells (talk) 18:28, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

US citizen[edit]

Puerto Ricans are US citizens, so I changed the nationality in the Infobox and material in the Lead.Parkwells (talk) 11:18, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

I changed the nationality to American in the infobox, but he should still be referenced as Puerto Rican within the article. Thief12 (talk) 11:55, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Nickname[edit]

I've read three different stories regarding who gave Camacho his nickname of "Macho".

That last one is from a local newspaper that's quoting an old interview with Camacho, where he tells the story of how he got his nickname. I couldn't find it online, but I have the physical newspaper right in front of me. Which one should we go with? Thief12 (talk) 20:38, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, his parents separated when he was three, and it's not clear how much he saw his father until returning to Puerto Rico as an adult fighter. His teacher Pat Flannery was credited by the NY Times with being a father figure to him, teaching him to read, and helping guide him to the Golden Gloves at a time when he'd been thrown out of his regular high school. I would go with Flannery per the NY Times article. The timing seems right. What's the date of your local newspaper? I have no idea how to evaluate it.Parkwells (talk) 01:35, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
The INdice newspaper is from November 23, 2012. It's an editorial that quotes an interview the editor, David Colón, made to Camacho in 1982. In it Camacho says that the nickname came from American co-workers at a factory that couldn't pronounce his full last name. That said, I don't think we should disregard the father because he's, well, his father and we have a recent, direct quote from him from a reliable source. As for Flannery, although I'm not disregarding it, it reads as if the newspaper had taken the info from somewhere else: "Flannery is credited with giving Camacho his nickname". I think that the article could be edited to reflect this. Something like "Although his father says he was the one that gave his son his nickname, Camacho himself said on an interview in 1982 that it came from bla bla bla. The NY Times also credits Pat Flannery with giving Camacho his nickname" or something to that effect. Thief12 (talk) 13:32, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
The best option is to give all the claims and their sources, per WP:ATTRIBUTE.

Camacho's nickname has been explained in various ways. According to Camacho..., According to his father..., According to the NYTimes....

Very simple and per policy. μηδείς (talk) 19:15, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done

death certificate[edit]

Anyone know how to get a copy of this, as well as his birth certificate or his arrest records? We could use confirmation of his day of death as well as his full name and his father's full name given there is a question of who Hector Camacho Sr. is. μηδείς (talk) 19:20, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Camacho Vs Gibbins[edit]

Camacho's record is in error and not true: We did fight on April 20th 1995 but did not fight again.

Win 53–3 United States Homer Gibbins TKO 9 (12) 2:39 August 6, 1995 Foxwoods Resort Casino, Ledyard, Connecticut, USA Retained IBC Welterweight Championship.

On this date he fought Gary Kirkland not Homer Gibbins, we never re-matched.

Link to official boxrec page: http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=607&cat=boxer

Camacho Vs Gibbins[edit]

Camacho's record is in error and not true: We did fight on April 20th 1995 but did not fight again.

Win 53–3 United States Homer Gibbins TKO 9 (12) 2:39 August 6, 1995 Foxwoods Resort Casino, Ledyard, Connecticut, USA Retained IBC Welterweight Championship.

On this date he fought Gary Kirkland not Homer Gibbins, we never re-matched.

Link to official boxrec page: http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=607&cat=boxer — Preceding unsigned comment added by Homergibbins (talkcontribs) 16:41, 14 July 2014 (UTC)