Talk:Hack and slash

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Deus Ex as Hack and slash[edit]

I removed the Deus Ex reference from the article, because I believe the game is anything BUT hack and slash. From the Deus Ex article: "Objectives can be completed in numerous ways, including stealth, sniping, heavy frontal assault, dialogue, or engineering and computer hacking." Dialogue? Stealth? Computer hacking? Hardly seems like a carnage-filled bloodbath to me. Allandaros 22:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


Aside from Deus Ex, I'm surprised that the Ultima series made it here, considering that that game has never been as combat-centric as games like Diablo. 66.235.241.102 (talk) 22:37, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Ultima does not belong in this list. I played one ultima game (serpent isle) and often went hours without killing anything. Compare that to the Diablo-type games where one can't go five minutes without a fight. I am going to remove Ultima for now. Theoretically, we should get citations for these anyway, but I'll leave that to another editor. -Anonymous —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.215.94.2 (talk) 16:08, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

DISPUTED -- Hack and slash as a video game genre[edit]

Why is hack and slash not emphasized as a video game genre anywhere? I find this odd, especially with the success of the God of War games. Even this article emphasizes D&D. JohnnyMrNinja 08:53, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you, but it is talked about in the second half of the article. The problem is, it was an RPG term before it was a video game genre. I would have written something already, but I didn't know where to start. If you can think of anything, by all means add it.--Shadowdrak 16:47, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
I rearranged and added stuff. I tried to lay some groundwork that can be expanded. If someone thinks they can expand then PLEASE do. My big problem is that I don't know where to look online for info on game genres, unless its in reference to the games themselves. JohnnyMrNinja 09:06, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Pretty good edit overall. One thing I would point out is that the video game needs some more info on non action-adventure games. Most have action oriented play even outside of the action genre, but some do have turn based play or downplay the action aspect. Diablo series is obviuosly hack and slash, and many console RPGs are as well especially earlier ones. The D&D influenced computer games such as the ones by Bioware come to mind, albeit not all. I haven't played any of the following so don't quote me, but I believe the Wizardry, Ultima, and Of Might and Magic series are good examples. Also might mention more prominently in the article that it is related to the dungeon crawler genre of RPG. If I can think of how specifically to add any of that in, I will do it myself, but you're welcome to it. If I were writing it I would explain it in terms of different aspects exemplified by particular games. That has the problem of being difficult to find sources for. Game magazine reviews maybe? I don't have subscriptions to any anymore though.--Shadowdrak 20:20, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
What are the sources for calling action games "hack and slahs"? The people I communicate with have allways used hack and slash as a reference to more combat focused RPGs such as Diablo.
The thing distinguishing the diffinition of Hack and Slash in this article from Beat 'em ups is nothing but pure asthetics. "kill" and "incapacitate" have no actuall difference in gameplay, and "weapons" vs. "no weapons" hardly have any. 193.44.6.146 (talk) 18:09, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


I still fail to see the difference from a mechanics perspective to beat'em ups in one description. I am agreeing with the anonymous person here. TMNT and Golden Axe are Beat'em ups, this isn't even worth a sub-genre. I'm not calling UT a different genre from Quake 3 Arena because UT has alternate fire! Klichka (talk) 00:33, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
Furthermore I am putting up the flag to dispute this section. This is a silly subgenre, as I've said Alt-Fire Functionality does not make a sub-genre in Deathmatch Oriented FPS Games. Klichka (talk) 00:39, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
I think you might be right. I just did a quick research survey. I found hack and slash used as a gameplay term to describe a wide range of games. But very seldom is it used to describe a game genre, and only in passing statements or unreliable sources. Let's leave the tag up for a while, just in case someone can find more research. But otherwise, I think we should accept that hack and slash isn't a genre, and is more a type of gameplay (even if sometimes people call a game a "hack and slash game" out of convenience). Randomran (talk) 01:58, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
For what it's worth, there are a few beat-em-ups that features weapons for some, but not all for its characters, while allowing them to pick up better weapons. One's 'The Simpsons' for the arcade. Another is 'Warriors of Fate'. And agreed, the semantics between 'kill' and 'incapacitate' are kind'a blurry. I'd say hack and slash isn't really a way to divide the beat-em-up genre, since what's the real difference between a sprite swinging a fist and a sprite swinging a sword--especially if a few levels later both sprites can snag a big axe or gun? IL-Kuma (talk) 10:02, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

This idea of beat 'em up with characters carrying weapons = hack and slash is totally flawed, the gameplay itself does not change and some games have both armed and unarmed player-characters (Captain Commando to name one). I think there is an actual hack and slash genre, incorporating large-scale battlefield games like Dynasty Warriors, action-adventure but-not-quite games like Devil May Cry, Beowulf: The Game and Conan, as well as others like Chaos Legion which would be hard to classify as anything else. These aren't fighting games or beat 'em ups yet have the defining features of both: emphasis on combos (fighting games) and slews of enemies (beat 'em ups). That's just my opinion, and needs sources, but I have seen hack and slash used as the sole genre in review text and stuck in the genre boxes on overviews and reviews countless times. Someoneanother 01:26, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I think a few sources would definitely be helpful. If oyu can find even a couple of reviews, we might be able to put this article in its proper context. Otherwise, it might make more sense to turn this into an article about gameplay, and remove any references to a genre. Randomran (talk) 02:41, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
They aren't coming out of searches in a reasonable time-frame, forget I said anything :| It may be the case that books will have info, but ATM I don't have access to any decent search facilities. Someoneanother 15:46, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
This article is a bit of an WP:OR magnet, since it's a popular term without a clear definition. It's also a label people like to throw around to kind of insult games (oh, it's just "hack and slash"). No matter what we do, it's going to be tough to keep this page on focus. Randomran (talk) 16:04, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

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Hack and Slash Definition[edit]

I have already commented in the Deux Ex section above concerning Ultima. Now that I look at the Lineage page, I am not sure Lineage is a hack and slash game either (I can't say, since I have never played or read a review of it). What I did notice is that the Lineage game has an overhead view like Diablo and Ultima. I am worried that Ultima & Lineage may have been included in this article because they superficially resemble Diablo in their interface rather than the game style. -Anonymous —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.215.94.2 (talk) 16:18, 4 October 2009 (UTC)