Talk:Harold Shipman

Shipman's birthday

Google turns up hits for both January and June 14 as Shipman's birthday, hence my edit... Evercat 00:38, 25 Sep 2003 (UTC)

January January and June 14 as shipmans birthday Lucymaiw (talk) 20:30, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Let's move it

I want to move this article to Harold Shipman. I don't think i've heard many media stories that call him by his full name not even on some article tv programmes. Thoughts? iHoshie 05:12, 14 Dec 2003 (UTC)

do it. Zocky 05:13, 14 Dec 2003 (UTC)

done. iHoshie 07:26, 14 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Deleting questionable comments

I didn't think that it added anything to spell out the childish things that the Sun printed after Shipman's suicide. I also found no confirmation of the claim that Peter Moore is somehow helping any investigation of the suicide. --Greg Kuperberg 15:53, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Toll of Shipman's victims

Blair P. Houghton has now twice asserted that As of January 2005, investigators had raised the number considered murdered to 284 on the basis of I read it in the actual news. It's the facts. Coincidentally (?), the same month the Shipman Inquiry (referenced in the article) produced its sixth and final report and concluded that the probable toll of his victims was "about 250". Considering that the Inquiry worked for nearly four years at a cost of many millions of pounds to arrive at its conclusions, I prefer to believe its count rather than an uncited assertion from the news. -- Arwel 23:34, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

More information is given at http://www.delmartimes.net/#ceren (May not be there long? I checked google cache initially). It seems the consensus is 250 though.--24.119.112.13 00:07, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

The Inquiry concluded 250. This article currently states two, contradictory, maximums, of 400 and 500. I am taking them out, since they don't have citations anyway, and linking to the Inquiry. raining girl 23:46, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Should he be Dr?

Harold Shipman was struck off the medical register in 2002. It is not usual for medics who have been struck off to retain the title, nor for them to be referred to as Dr. Most media outlets refer to him as merely 'Harold Shipman'. Of course he is notorious for committing his crimes as a medical doctor, but that is evident in the article. I'd propose the 'Dr' be dropped.--81.104.194.27 10:22, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Well strictly speaking most doctors (or general practitioners) are only Bachelors Of Medicine, so they are not entitled to 'Dr.' either. But it's a convention, and in fairness to him he was a doctor for the vast majority of his working life, and it is kind of relevant to the article. DavidFarmbrough (talk) 08:38, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Vera Shipman

Saladin1970 (talk · contribs) inserted (in the intro, no less) that his mother Vera was a Jewish asylum seeker. If this needs to be mentioned at all (and I don't think it does), it should not be in the intro, having no relevance at all to Shipman's claim to fame.

This is the first time I've heard anyone say that he may have been Jewish. It is obvious that he was not a practicing Jew, and have my doubts whether this is not an attempt at guilt by association. JFW | T@lk 09:03, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Dame Janet Smith

Dame Janet Smith was so referred throughout the Shipman Inquiry. See the front page of all its publications and of its website. Any other reference is incorrect. David | Talk 17:20, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Pension

"Shipman's motive for suicide was not established, although he had reportedly told his probation officer that he was considering suicide so that his widow could receive a National Health Service pension and lump sum, even though he had been stripped of his own pension."

Did his wife get that pension? --SGGH 08:55, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Picture needed

"was the most prolific known serial killer in the history of Britain (and possibly the world)"

Methinks this page should REALLY get a picture in it somewhere

Badcock and Harry Potter

What is with the paragraph involving Badcock in the "Trial and imprisonment" section? Is it vandalism, or was someone actually trying to convey information with it? I thought about trying to re-word it to correct the grammar mistakes and non-sequiturs but decided that I couldn't tell what it really said. Anyone know?

Jewish by Jayjg

There used to be a thread here. It was pretty anti-Semitic. Here's the only bits that really matter. (N.B.: Not saying that every comment I removed was individually anti-Semitic.) -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she/they) 22:34, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Shipman was an agnostic, according to Brian Whittle in his Book Prescription For Murder. (Chris Henniker (talk) 19:11, 1 July 2009 (UTC)) Times columnist claims he wasn't Jewish[1], I can't find any evidence at all he was, just hearsay. His parents were Methodists[2], so were his wife's parents[3]. Cpsoper (talk) 20:36, 30 April 2017 (UTC) Yes, Deborah Ross in that article in The Times, says, quite categorically, "As it happens, Harold Shipman wasn’t Jewish." Si I suggest this thread, started 8 years ago, which borders on anti-semitic WP:FORUM, should be collapsed or removed altogether. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:51, 30 April 2017 (UTC) Agreed, but removing it will only unfortunately feed the nonsense, a collapse is a good idea till it's archived naturally. Cpsoper (talk) 10:36, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Is Shipman serial killer world record holder?

Just wondering if anybody has beaten Shipman's score of 250? He must be in the top 5 at least? Colin4C 19:27, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

• Whilst there can be little doubt that he is the UK national champ the exact number of his victims will always be open to speculation, as is the definition as to what exactly qualifies one as a serial killer.--Edchilvers 21:27, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

A title to be proud of. Do we really have to sink to the morbid level of "celebrating" him. Perhaps his wife should be awarded a trophy on his behalf. Fuck off. 89.213.56.44 21:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• No serial killer has found to have killed more anywhere in the world by any legal system, this is easily varifiable. Elizabeth Bathory is in second place with 150-200 kills according to evidence from her trial. His proven kill count is 215, although it may be higher. Even at 215 it's more than the proven kill count of anyone else. A serial killer is a predator who commits three or more separate acts of murder in a space of a month or more. I think however we should have the article say the most prolific "modern" serial killer --Gothicform 00:53, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Well I guess that proves, we're all fucked in the head, not just Shipman...

No Shipman is definitely not the world record serial killer, Thug Behram far exceeded him, Thug Behram killed more than 900 victims. Wooyi^{Talk, Editor review} 01:02, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

• Though the original question by Colin4C is pretty peurile, I think there is something of academic interest behind it. It might be worth comparing Shipman to another doctor, John Bodkin Adams, who was thought by pathologist Francis Camps to have killed 163 patients between 1946 and 1956. Adams however first aroused suspicions regarding his activities in 1935, which would therefore suggest he could have rivalled Shipman's numbers. (See: Pamela V. Cullen, "A Stranger in Blood: The Case Files on Dr John Bodkin Adams", London, Elliott & Thompson, 2006. Page 636) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Malick78 (talk • contribs) 10:36, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Bodington Hall

I have removed an unreferenced mention of Bodington Hall added by a single-edit IP. The only google hits I can find are mirrors of WP. WP:RS welcomed. Mr Stephen 21:53, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Concurrent vs. consecutive

Regarding Ironman's change on November 19: I believe "consecutive" is the correct term in this case rather than "concurrent" (15 consecutive life sentences). No one can literally serve life 15 times, but nonetheless, I believe that is the correct terminology. Just doing a quick online search, I've found references to Shipman's "consecutive life sentences" on NY Times, BBC and Time magazine. Does anyone have more expertise on this terminology? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gingerwiki (talk • contribs) 00:00, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Concurrent is used by the BBC, Telegraph, and it's also backed up by a trial transcript. Consecutive doesn't generally make much sense with life sentences, although whole life tariff sentences are quite rare anyway. Concurrent sentences mean they are served at the same time, for example if someone received a twenty year sentence for armed robbery and a five year sentence for possession of cocaine, they would serve their sentences at the same time. If the sentences were consecutive, the prisoner would first serve the twenty year sentence, then serve the five year sentence (or vice versa). Hope that helps, and based on the trial transcript "concurrent" is correct. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 00:13, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

A trial transcript works for me; thank you!Gingerwiki (talk) 02:39, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Shipman's real total

Most estimates I read think Shipman killed over 500. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Professor Boris (talk • contribs) 23:49, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Reference to 'Jonathan King' song about Shipman

Jonathan King is just someone else who is in denial about his own guilt. He is a convicted sex offender who will do anything to maintain his own distorted public image as a man who has been misaligned. The mention of Jonathan Kings 'song' has no relevance to the article at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.200.219.22 (talk •) 00:42, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Inquest?

"After his trial, a BMA inquest chaired by Dame Janet Smith..." Erm, wasn't it a government inquiry? Where does BMA and 'inquest' come from? Malick78 (talk) 14:27, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Early life

Come on Wiki .... what the Hell is all this stuff about Shipman liking boats? And a plastic boat being found in the intestines? What's the source for this? She was cremated without an autopsy according to the Shipman Inquiry website. And the reference (5) is to a rather sick and poorly done video on YouTube.

No wonder Wikipedia gets a bad name at times. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.161.119.184 (talk) 11:02, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Apologies ... forgot to sign the post labelled 'Early life'. It was me whingeing. Stiggoblin (talk) 12:38, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

It's the same person doing this - I've reverted it 5 or 6 times. I would try to get the IP banned but I don't know how. Malick78 (talk) 16:11, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Cultural reference section

I have reinstated this - see argument in Talk:Fred_West#Does_pop_culture_trivia_belong_in_a_serious_article_about_a_murderer.3F. DavidFarmbrough (talk) 08:42, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Number of victims

In the lead of the article its states, in the first paragraph, that "He is the most prolific known serial killer in history with 218 murders being positively ascribed to him" and in the third paragraph it states "Shipman had probably killed about 250 people, of whom 218 could be positively identified." could this be clarified. Assuming he had exactly 250 victims, does that mean that 32 victims could not be identified (32 unidentified/able victims) or could not be positively ascribed to him (shown that he killed them)?

Also the second point I would like to make is that under English Law you are innocent until proven guilty so even though there may be all the evidence in the world to show that he did murder the victims he was only found guilty of murdering 15, so he can only be said to have had 15 victims, the others should be identified as "alleged victims", It's an important distiction to make (I realise that he his dead, but even so the rules are pretty strict on this.). Could the article reflect this distinction between "alleged" and "actual" victims? 124.169.112.178 (talk) 07:29, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

You might want to reflect on the findings of the Shipman Inquiry: http://www.the-shipman-inquiry.org.uk/ . Also, the "innocent until proven guilty" thing is a rule of law, and one that applies to the living. We don't generally apply it to the dead. After all, it would be stupid to write a biography of many historical figures (eg Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin) from the presumed viewpoint that they are all innocent of any crimes that are alleged against them. Let's just be sensible here. There's been a long inquiry into Shipman, we can refer to its findings, notwithstanding that he is not here to answer the allegations. Hibbertson (talk) 13:52, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I am reading "the good doctor"

I am reading the book about fred shipman. I found the book to be a great insight into a very disturbed individual. I just wanted to see what there was the net about him and found this. Anyway read the story it is well written. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.211.75.194 (talk) 22:45, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Superficial charm

I think it is worth mentioning that Shipman (like many psychopaths) oozed superficial charm and consequently many of his patients thought he was a nice, kind and good doctor. --Penbat (talk) 18:11, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

I recall hearing, on the UK tv news in 2000, a little old lady who had lived in the same town as him for many years: she stressed how likeable he had seemed while he had still inspired suspicious gossip. As she put it, in the last years before he was exposed, she would reply when people asked about him: "Oh, you mean Dr.Death? No, darling, don't go see him; he's a good doctor but you don't last long." ;) 83.254.151.33 (talk) 03:23, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

You'd really need a citation to include that kind of characterisation. Also, he was never clinically diagnosed as a psychopath - it's not clear whether he was; not all serial killers are. Some are psychotic, and their murders are a reaction to psychotic delusions rather than psychopathy. So references to psychopathy would need a citation too.

206.132.97.4 (talk) 16:00, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Proportion?

Is it true that "A high proportion of prisoners with whole life tariffs or very long sentences want to die"? It sounds obvious but there's no citation. I would assume they'd be more concerned with being released but I may be wrong. I think the statement needs more proof and precision than naming two other serial killers, especially when you consider that very few of these people confess to their guilt. This is also the case for prisoners on death row in the states; almost all will still be insisting they're innocent whilst they are being strapped up on their last day. Although I'm not sure if that's quite the same as life imprisonment, it shows that they didn't want to die. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.190.238.246 (talk) 20:41, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Only British doctor found guilty of murdering his patients ... really?

On Wikipedia there is a section on William Palmer, a doctor who was found guilty of murdering people. Are we sure the above is correct, because it is a pretty strong claim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by A Taxed Mind (talk • contribs) 10:48, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

I think this depends upon the definition of Doctor: if you take Doctor as meaning MD then I suspect that the claim holds. Palmer was an MRCS (sorry don't have ref to hand, but just google William Palmer and MRCS). Now this MRCS ws NOT the modern day MRCS (loosely a postgraduate qualification for Doctors aiming at a career as a consultant) but a junior medical qualification at a Lower level thn an MD. IHowever I suspect that the distinction was never very often observed:for example in Conan Doyle's Hound of the Baskervilles I remember that Dr Mortimer was an MRCS and modestly says that he is not a Doctor "but a humble MRCS", but is always referred to as Doctor. 109.150.13.0 (talk) 09:51, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Was Shipman a psychopath?

The article states that Harold Shipman was a psychopath and cites a commentary on an article in Postgrad Med J which states "Harold Shipman was a murdering psychopath." In forensic psychology and psychiatry the word "psychopath" is a clinical term that carries a very specific meaning. The word is also used by laypeople in a derogatory sense. I suspect that this quoted statement has been used in the latter, derogatory sense, rather than as a diagnosis. Shipman may well have been a psychopath in the clinical sense of the word, but this one quotation really isn't enough evidence. Did a psychologist or psychiatrist formally diagnose Shipman with psychopathy? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Azawalli (talk • contribs) 23:28, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree, the source sounds like a slur more than a diagnosis, so I've tagged it for further investigation. I can't find an obvious source that lists him as medically diagnosed, just a lot of assumptions that he must have been a psychopath. BulbaThor (talk) 17:41, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

I noticed the exact same thing, read the source and say it was already mentioned here. Shipman, as far as we know, never spoke about the murders and was uncooperative with the authorities, making it unlikely that a clinical diagnosis was ever successful if even attempted. It's likely that Shipman was a psychopath in a clinical sense, but this source does not prove it and I'm removing the claim as thus. Michael Heseltin (talk) 02:27, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

For the record, the author of the source was President of the Royal College of General Practitioners. Mr Stephen (talk) 06:54, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Doesn't that make it a reliable source? Jim Michael (talk) 18:39, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Was he a monster?

I have little information on this other than watching tv.I do believe he believed he was helping people in times of old age. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.238.66.25 (talk) 22:12, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

He was a psychopath who enjoyed murdering healthy people. He falsified their medical records and death certificates to make it appear that they died naturally. He did not believe that he was helping people in any way. Jim Michael (talk) 00:06, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Early career posts

"After a brief period as medical officer for Hatfield College, Durham, and temporary work for the National Coal Board" - this has needed a citation for over a year now, and I have been unable to verify either of these via web newspaper sources or Google books, only from mirrors or obvious copies of this page. Does anybody know whether these are correct? Bob talk 23:12, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Kathleen Grundy

Section Detection: Shipman's last victim Kathleen Gundry is described as a former Mayor. She was actually a former Mayoress - the wife of an elected Mayor. See 4.6 Molecules of Murder: Criminal Molecules and Classic Cases ( p.84 ); please tidy this up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.57.174.252 (talk) 09:53, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

To whom was she married? Are you quoting from a book? If so, who is it by and when was it publishsed? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:12, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

See Also: Jayant Patel?

Is it really appropriate to have Jayant Patel linked to in the 'See Also' section of Shipman's wiki page?

He was a doctor initially charged with negligence and manslaughter of 3 individuals, but later only charged and found guilty of fraud.

I think it's a pretty tenuous link to a prolific serial killer who murdered over 200 victims.

Unless I receive a reasonable justification for the link, I'll remove it. 206.132.97.4 (talk) 15:55, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

He Thought he was a Medical God

I didn't just add to a well researched page but I came across a BBC news story in which his prison diaries are discussed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/manchester/hi/people_and_places/newsid_8830000/8830137.stm http://www.theguardian.com/society/2005/apr/12/NHS.shipman

What's interesting is that there is no talk of having them expertly analyzed - I do think that work might allow the family to understand someone who, from all the sources before he was arrested, would produce a DSM-V produce this - http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/manchester/hi/people_and_places/newsid_8830000/8830137.stm You don't have to fill ALL the criteria and what's more, his wife disputed his guilt and even tried to keep jewelry she KNEW wasn't hers, that was taken for dead bodies (she gave no excuse) Psycopath Folie à Deux IS a very rare, but not unknown condition.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/7842463/Dr-Howard-Martin-Im-no-Harold-Shipman.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.106.56.145 (talk) 11:42, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

I should add that the US fills x10 the prescriptions (for population size) for opiates than the UK and since Shipman, they ALL DID under prescribe and thus many suffered 'unacceptably distressing' pain (Our equivalent of the PDR, doesn't just say 'pain'. it has to be unacceptably distressing) and we are slowly catching up. One friend sent a letter to her GP suggesting that she was in 'a great deal of pain indeed - suggest Oxycodone. She got dihydrocodeine! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18169840 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.106.56.145 (talk) 11:29, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Primrose

Does more need to said about Primrose's supposed mental condition? There is more material here, which mentions folie à deux. But The Daily Mail is not a WP:RS. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:06, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Worst serial killer by number of victims in Britain

I don't know if this is worth noting but it seems like Harold Shipman was the deadliest known killer in British history.--Similioun (talk) 05:11, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

The first sentence of the article states, "the most prolific serial killer in recorded history", which means in the whole world, which includes Great Britain. MaerlynsRainbow (talk) 14:27, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Non sequitur?

These two sentences, back-to-back in the same paragraph, do not seem to have anything to do with each other:

In August 1998 taxi driver John Shaw, from Hyde, contacted the police, informing them that he suspected Shipman of murdering 21 of his patients.[17] Grundy's daughter, lawyer Angela Woodruff, became concerned when solicitor Brian Burgess informed her that a will had been made, apparently by her mother.

Also, the first sentence seems to be just hanging there, with no relevant information. Who was John Shaw. What would a taxi driver have to do with this? Why would he have suspicions?

MaerlynsRainbow (talk) 14:24, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Daily Mail source

This citation about the victim's son is no reliable anyway, whether it is from The Daily Mail of not. It is the opinion of one person, as quoted (with associated glitter) by the DM. POV reported by a RS does not make the POV a reliable source. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 19:43, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

The most prolific prolific serial killers in recorded history?

In the opening line, the article states: 'one of the most prolific serial killers in recorded history'. Not aiming to celebrate this in anyway (which I'm not), but for reasons of accuracy and to highlight the scale of his practice, should it not read: 'the most prolific serial killer in recorded history'? As he has the highest amount of verified deaths amongst all serial killers. Small change which I'd do automatically, but I felt it necessary to check. TGB13 (talk) 20:48, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Yes. That what it says at List of serial killers by number of victims, although the source supporting that claim, to the-shipman-inquiry.org.uk, seems to be now dead also. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:17, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Member of local Conservative Club

As with Ted Bundy's one-time involvement with the Republican Party, Shipman's involvement with his local branch of the Conservative Party has been wildly exaggerated since he became infamous. The claims online and in the media that Shipman was being talked about as a possible candidate for the House of Commons, are far-fetched to say the least and are the same bullshit as the claims that Ted Bundy was seriously considered at one time as a potential Republican Party candidate for state Governor. The Conservative Party might have possibly endorsed Shipman for his local council had it come to that, but even this is a stretch. Sorry but "the serial killer politician" is something that does not need to be in this article. Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 13:07, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Hello, Paul Benjamin Austin. Where in the article do you find mention of his possible political career? I don't have time to search for it. How do we determine whether the cited source is wrong in what it states? WP's policy is that even wrong stuff can stand in WP, provided reliable sources agree about it.--Quisqualis (talk) 18:27, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

"a program on his computer that recorded ghost actions" ??

What are "ghost actions"? Equinox ◑ 00:07, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Assuming Shipman had no interest in the paranormal, I think this has been invented. I can't find it in any online source. Nor is it supported by the existing BBC source. I assume all it is intended to mean is that dates of document creation were recorded, which is the unavoidable default for most document creation utilities. I'd suggest rewording to remove that odd phrasing. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:34, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

I agree with this - 'ghost' is surely not referring to 'the other side'? If it is, it shouldn't. Fortnum (talk) 13:31, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Suicide

Shipman took his own life. Normally the accepted way of writing about this would be died by suicide or completed suicide. The phrase committed suicide, is from the time that suicide was a crime it no longer is and this use of committed is considered to be pejorative by some. Personally think died by suicide is as a concise way of putting it. --DoctorAB (talk) 10:11, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Is "Euthanasia" an appropriate topic to link to in the "See also" section?

I'm a bit uncomfortable with the linking of the euthanasia page to this article about Harold Shipman in the See also section. To me, this almost seems to be suggesting that Shipman's murders were comparable to euthanasia, and almost seem a bit ageist to me. Shipman's victims were not terminally ill and suggesting any similarity to euthanasia seems to be minimising his heinous crimes.

I don't want to just remove the link, but I think it's worth reaching a consensus on this. Zinedine Socrates (talk) 12:55, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Day of death

Shipman killed himself the day before his 58th birthday. A number of WP:RS sources mention this, e.g. iNews, Manchester Evening News, The Independent, Al Jazeera, The Guardian, etc. So this seems to be a notable fact. It may well have influenced his decision: one could imagine him not being able to face yet another birthday in prison. The fact that he killed himself before the age of 60, to financially benefit his wife, is already addressed in the article and is fully sourced, although The Independent does actually claim: "He hanged himself in his cell at HM Prison Wakefield in Yorkshire on 13 January 2004, a day before his 58th birthday, allegedly so that his wife could cash in a £100,000 maximum pension payout." Both the article lead section and the main body previously mentioned the day of his death, but this has now been removed with the edit summary "being “almost 58” still has no bearing on his decision to die before reaching 60, so “aged 57” is fine. birthday eves are not notable." Should it be restored? I agree that birthday eves are generally not notable, but I suggest that this was a special case. 86.187.231.226 (talk) 18:23, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

No longer the only British Doctor to be convicted

Since today's sentencing for Lucy Letby, Shipman is no longer the only doctor convicted of killing their patients. Sammygoofy (talk) 15:08, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Lucy was a nurse, not a doctor. Keith D (talk) 18:44, 21 August 2023 (UTC)